saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
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Post by saintpat on Apr 25, 2016 11:02:57 GMT -5
I saw a post sometime in the last couple of weeks -- I think it was here, but it could have been on another forum -- that really got me thinking. I hadn't taken a step back and looked at it like that and wanted to know what people think.
The post had a photo of Randy "Macho Man" Savage with the caption "This is what a wrestler used to look like."
Then it had a pic of Sami Zayn that was captioned, "This is what a wrestler looks like today."
The conclusion was something like: "This is what's really wrong with the business."
I wonder if there might not be a valid point in there. Yes, there are still a few "Larger than Life" personalities in the game and Superstars with true physical presence, but the trend seems to be going in the other direction with a lot of former indie guys and other Performance Center talents who don't fit the bigger-than-you/bigger-than-life mold.
Now I love Daniel Bryan and have a several DVDs of his indie work, owned them long before he joined WWE. I've seen Generico live and loved his work before Sami came along. I think AJ is awesome, but he's, what, 5-foot-8?
So I thought I'd toss that out as a topic. Is the long-term direction as far as talent size and turned-up-to-11 personality vs. toned-down-to-what gimmicks really, well, Best for Business? I don't know. I'm not sure I and others can buy in to get behind average-sized, average-looking guys as the future. I'm not sure I buy too many guys on the roster being a real threat to the Brock Lesnars. (I've liked Ambrose since the indies and am excited with him being in WWE as a major talent, and I liked the idea of a (more prolonged, more vicious) beat down at Brock's hands as the guy who's too crazy to know when he's beat, but I don't think I would buy him winning that match, for instance.)
So what do you think? Is there an ounce -- or more -- of credibility to this idea?
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Post by Milkman Norm on Apr 25, 2016 11:05:39 GMT -5
I think it depends on the era we're living in and what people want. Sometimes people want over the top. Sometimes they want guys they can relate to. It's up to the promoters,bookers and wrestlers to figure out where the cultural line is at that point and adjust accordingly.
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Post by Germansuplex on Apr 25, 2016 11:08:16 GMT -5
Is there an ounce -- or more -- of credibility to this idea?
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
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Posts: 39,293
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Post by Push R Truth on Apr 25, 2016 11:10:27 GMT -5
It's a hard subject because the last thing anybody needs is to talk about how Wrestling needs to go back to snorting mountains of cocaine before they cut a promo, then shooting up 'roids to the point where if wrestlers from that era die before 60 it's not really that shocking.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Apr 25, 2016 11:12:41 GMT -5
I think people of my generation tend to romanticizes what we grew up with. So if you grew up with Hulkamania and were a teen during the Attitude Era big over the top characters are what you want. Meanwhile fans that watched wrestling before that couldn't understand why these over the top crazy people had taken over from the real athletes who used to be stars.
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Apr 25, 2016 11:13:58 GMT -5
I don't think it's a huge issue as many top stars in other fields are smaller than they once were be it Mayweather, Messi or Matt Damon.
However if all wrestlers are of a smaller stature the lack of variety may become a problem.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Apr 25, 2016 11:32:31 GMT -5
I don't think it's a huge issue as many top stars in other fields are smaller than they once were be it Mayweather, Messi or Matt Damon. However if all wrestlers are of a smaller stature the lack of variety may become a problem. You can throw Steph Curry in there, too, although in boxing there have always been weight classes and stars from the lower weights. But at the same time, NFL players (linemen, wideouts, linebackers, you name it) are getting increasingly larger. NBA players are bigger -- used to be a 6-7 guard was almost unheard of, now they're a dime a dozen. I went to a major league game a few years ago and the infield, other than the second baseman, could have been a college football's 3-4 base defense. I could go on and on. I think part of it is a divide between the "casuals" and the "IWC" -- the IWC people, especially those into Japanese and indie wrestling -- wants workratez. The casuals I know like Brock and Undertaker and those are who they identify with. One of them texted me when Braun Strowman debuted -- and this guy doesn't keep up with anything much in WWE -- with an OMG WHO IS THAT GUY???!!!! He didn't do that for Seth Rollins. Seems to me it's a divide building.
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
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Brawl For All
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Post by thecrusherwi on Apr 25, 2016 11:36:58 GMT -5
No promoter has ever treated size as importantly as Vince McMahon. Ric Flair and Jerry Lawler drew a ton of money and probably would not stand out in a crowd of 100 random men from the 1980s. Mike Tyson is the same height as me. Most of your biggest recent draws in UFC like George St Pierre and Conor McGregor are the same size or smaller than most of us here. The average guy on this board would tower over Floyd Mayweather. If treated right and allowed to show their genuine personality, the combination of skill, personality, and presentation can make anyone of any size larger than life.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Apr 25, 2016 11:40:10 GMT -5
So what do you think? Is there an ounce -- or more -- of credibility to this idea? No.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Apr 25, 2016 12:21:16 GMT -5
Sami Zayn throws himself through the ropes and spins around in a circle to DDT his opponents. That is pretty damn larger than life.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Apr 25, 2016 12:23:33 GMT -5
I think the smarks would go into orgasmic ecstasy for a Zayn-AJ main event at WM (even saw someone speculate on that) but I don't think it would see to the masses in a big way.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 25, 2016 12:25:52 GMT -5
Maybe the post would have more merit if Sami was what every dude looked like, where you have the problem ROH had for a bit of like half the roster looking like Roderick Strong's brother, or the early-mid 2000s where OVW was churning out guys with basic skillsets combined with charisma deficiencies, but WWE has a pretty varied roster in terms of look and style.
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mrbananagrabber
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Apr 25, 2016 12:52:45 GMT -5
Yeah, but Ryback looks like how wrestlers "should look like", and he f***ing sucks.
I'll take the new look.
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Apr 25, 2016 13:02:06 GMT -5
The thing about being "larger than life" is that it has nothing to do with physical size. Ric Flair felt larger than life, and he wasn't a great physique, nor was he even 6 feet tall. It's all about presence. I think Daniel Bryan was a larger than life character.
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Post by darkjourney on Apr 25, 2016 13:02:35 GMT -5
A Huge part of being a superstar is looking the part. That is clearly missing from the WWE today. Zayn, Owens etc. just dont look like superstars. They look like your next door neighbors
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Post by Milkman Norm on Apr 25, 2016 13:07:07 GMT -5
A Huge part of being a superstar is looking the part. That is clearly missing from the WWE today. Zayn, Owens etc. just dont look like superstars. They look like your next door neighbors What's a superstar? For that matter who's to say that only superstars as defined by you or anyone else are the only types that can be successful and draw money.
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Post by darkjourney on Apr 25, 2016 13:23:59 GMT -5
A Huge part of being a superstar is looking the part. That is clearly missing from the WWE today. Zayn, Owens etc. just dont look like superstars. They look like your next door neighbors What's a superstar? For that matter who's to say that only superstars as defined by you or anyone else are the only types that can be successful and draw money. Someone who. 1. Captivates the masses (Not just the hardcore fan who is gonna watch regardless) 2. Draws big time viewership for TV Ratings 3. Instrumental in stimulating boom periods 4. Mainstream Popularity 5. Can Talk people into the buildings 6. Has the looks of a large than life character etc.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2016 13:33:36 GMT -5
An ideal wrestling situation to me would be today's athleticism and lack of drug use, with that era's gimmicks and unscripted promos.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Apr 25, 2016 13:37:28 GMT -5
What's a superstar? For that matter who's to say that only superstars as defined by you or anyone else are the only types that can be successful and draw money. Someone who. 1. Captivates the masses (Not just the hardcore fan who is gonna watch regardless) 2. Draws big time viewership for TV Ratings 3. Instrumental in stimulating boom periods 4. Mainstream Popularity 5. Can Talk people into the buildings 6. Has the looks of a large than life character etc. 1-5 I agree with. Six is irrelevant if the first five qualifications are met.
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Post by darkjourney on Apr 25, 2016 13:39:20 GMT -5
Someone who. 1. Captivates the masses (Not just the hardcore fan who is gonna watch regardless) 2. Draws big time viewership for TV Ratings 3. Instrumental in stimulating boom periods 4. Mainstream Popularity 5. Can Talk people into the buildings 6. Has the looks of a large than life character etc. 1-5 I agree with. Six is irrelevant if the first five qualifications are met. Look as is still a big part of it.. All the top drawing superstars in the history of wrestling looked like Comic Book Characters (Hogan, Warrior, Andre,etc.) or larger than life personalities and looks at least (Rock, Austin, Flair etc) When everyone just looks bland and regular like your every day joe. . Its just not gonna sell like before.
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