The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,320
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Post by The Ichi on Aug 10, 2016 22:16:12 GMT -5
I love Brock but the Dean Ambrose thing was a bitch move.
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Post by bearned on Aug 10, 2016 22:25:13 GMT -5
I have no problems with Brock not wanting to do a hardcore match. I reckon this comes down to them booking a match that only works if Ambrose has weapons and thinking Brock would be fine with it. Now unless Brock was like 'yeah I'll do whatever' and then changed his mind, I don't know that you can say this was Brock being lazy really.
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Post by Raskovnik on Aug 10, 2016 23:02:36 GMT -5
I get that Brock is living people's alpha male fantasies so it's cool that he doesn't give a shit and still get paid $$$$$$ to do hardly anything but when it affects the in-ring product, which is all I'm there for, like that shitshow he put on at WM32, he can go eat a dick. That's my bottom line.
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Venti
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Post by Venti on Aug 10, 2016 23:10:02 GMT -5
I get that Brock is living people's alpha male fantasies so it's cool that he doesn't give a shit and still get paid $$$$$$ to do hardly anything but when it affects the in-ring product, which is all I'm there for, like that shitshow he put on at WM32, he can go eat a dick. That's my bottom line. I agree. Maybe it's because I'm such a Dean mark(I mention him in like half my posts, so..) but I was looking forward to their Mania match being a violent show stealer, and it was like, nothing.
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Post by Texas Tornado on Aug 10, 2016 23:13:00 GMT -5
The thing with the Ambrose match that puzzles me and ultimately irritates me is that he ruined both that match and ANY future matches they could have together.
Now there's way less interest and intrigue in a match up between those two. It reminds me of the Mania match with Taker to be honest. Anything those two do in the future will have to first make up for that dud they produced. By the time that happens I'm pretty sure I'll want to see Brock and Dean facing everyone else but each other. All he had to do was whoop Ambrose's ass for like 8 more minutes. That's not at all hard to do.
Taking a match off for a UFC fight that you cheated in is so ass backwards to me. There's stuff leading up to that fight that a lot of us said "Brock would never do that!" to. Well, he did it. So at the end of the day as much as I'd rather he not be a lazy dick; he's kind of a lazy dick. There's a difference between having your mind on your money and outright f***ing people over.
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Post by CMPunkyBrewster on Aug 10, 2016 23:18:20 GMT -5
I've stated this theory before, and was insulted for it. Now that the shine is coming off the douche, I'd like to try again:
Yes. Lesnar is lazy. And also a bit of a pussy.
He became a pro wrestler. He had the world handed to him on a platter. Huge push, best manager around, world titles, the works...and he walks away because it's hard. He doesn't like the schedule or the beating he has to take.
Next comes the NFL. He goes, he trains, he ALMOST makes a team before getting cut at the last minute. So does he take a year to improve before trying again? Nope. He quits again because it's hard (and the fact that they didn't give a shit about him being Brock Lesnar probably didn't help).
Next comes MMA, where he proceeds to do ok (sorry, but no one will ever convince me that a 6-3 record is better than ok, nor has any other fighter with that kind of record ever had the kind of hype that Lesnar has received). But even then, these "illnesses" kept delaying fights. I personally think there was at least a little bit of bullshit behind the health problems. But what really ran him out of MMA? Getting his ass handed to him twice in a row. Once he took some actual ass kickings, he decided once again that it was time to quit.
And so WWE throws him a nice, fat contract, doesn't ask for much work, and sends their hype machine into overdrive for him. And how does he react? By being a giant f***ing baby who doesn't want to do ANYTHING outside of throwing the same god damn suplex OVER AND OVER AND OVER.
The truth is, if ANY other person on this planet is even POSSIBLY lazy or uncooperative in their workplace, they are derided by everyone else on the planet. Someone messes up an order at McDonald's? They are automatically a lazy, stupid asshole. Brock Lesnar refuses to work with his opponent to help them get ahead? Eh, he's Brock Lesnar, he can do what he wants, it's just wrestling.
Sorry, but the guy is the epitome of an athlete who got caught up in his own hype, and expects to just get by by existing. He feels like just being Brock Lesnar should earn him a paycheck. And that is the definition of lazy to me.
And while I'm on the subject, I just want to go ahead and state that I think his fight against Hunt was a complete bullshit job from beginning to end. Hunt can punch with the best of them, and it almost seemed to me like he was intentionally not doing so. There were so many times in that fight that Hunt had HUGE openings to go for a knockout punch, and just didn't, which makes NO sense seeing as everyone knows Brock's biggesg weakness is someone who comes after him swinging for the fences. He just circled the cage and waited on Brock to go for the kill. I'm not saying Brock knew about it (if he did, I believe he would have ended it quicker because, again, lazy), but there is just something wrong about that fight.
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Post by warriorthug4edge on Aug 10, 2016 23:19:21 GMT -5
Yeah, some of these comments aren't making any sense in defense of Lesnar. I'm calling bullshit as well. Take the Ambrose match for example. The goal of the match was to make Ambrose look strong while Lesnar wins. How hard would it be if Lesnar did more F5s? How hard would it be if Ambrose got in the Kimura Lock and didn't tap out and yet Lesnar broke the hold and took pity on him? How hard would it be if Lesnar took more shots to Ambrose's back with the chair enough that the crowd even starts counting that like with suplexes? How hard would it be for Lesnar to keep knocking Ambrose down and Ambrose keep getting up and Lesnar's like "Seriously kid? Come on now" as the match continues? How hard would it be to have Lesnar pin Ambrose and he'd kick out some extra times? How hard would it be to have the refs stop the match to look at Ambrose but Ambrose demands it keep going? Even with a stretcher wheeled out? How hard would it be for Lesnar to stop attacking Ambrose because he's a fighter like himself until Ambrose slaps or spits on him resulting in 1 final F5? Hell, how hard would it even have to be to let Ambrose stay in the ring and have the crowd clap and cheer Ambrose as he makes a slow walk to the back because he actually survives? Not even that but a slow crawl to the back? See, these are things that could have happened that would keep Lesnar strong, keep his health intact but most importantly put Ambrose over. Ambrose looked far worse at the end of that. That match would have had Ambrose being dominated 90% of the time and still work. I mean these are legit ideas. I don't care who you are but if anyone says "well that can't happen because it's just a check for Lesnar and he's out to do what it do with his health" I can't rock with that. That's lazy and selfish. That's not helping Ambrose which was the goal of the match according to Meltzer. At that point it's just him being selfish. They should have let him lose the match. This. What makes it worse is how Cole and JBL after the match treated it like Ambrose was so close to winning and proved how tough he was and Lesnar was lucky. No. Ambrose looked like the scrawny kid that stands up to the school bully, throws one punch, and gets obliterated in front of the whole school.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2016 23:38:38 GMT -5
I've stated this theory before, and was insulted for it. Now that the shine is coming off the douche, I'd like to try again: Yes. Lesnar is lazy. And also a bit of a pussy. He became a pro wrestler. He had the world handed to him on a platter. Huge push, best manager around, world titles, the works...and he walks away because it's hard. He doesn't like the schedule or the beating he has to take. Next comes the NFL. He goes, he trains, he ALMOST makes a team before getting cut at the last minute. So does he take a year to improve before trying again? Nope. He quits again because it's hard (and the fact that they didn't give a shit about him being Brock Lesnar probably didn't help). Next comes MMA, where he proceeds to do ok (sorry, but no one will ever convince me that a 6-3 record is better than ok, nor has any other fighter with that kind of record ever had the kind of hype that Lesnar has received). But even then, these "illnesses" kept delaying fights. I personally think there was at least a little bit of bullshit behind the health problems. But what really ran him out of MMA? Getting his ass handed to him twice in a row. Once he took some actual ass kickings, he decided once again that it was time to quit. And so WWE throws him a nice, fat contract, doesn't ask for much work, and sends their hype machine into overdrive for him. And how does he react? By being a giant f***ing baby who doesn't want to do ANYTHING outside of throwing the same god damn suplex OVER AND OVER AND OVER. The truth is, if ANY other person on this planet is even POSSIBLY lazy or uncooperative in their workplace, they are derided by everyone else on the planet. Someone messes up an order at McDonald's? They are automatically a lazy, stupid asshole. Brock Lesnar refuses to work with his opponent to help them get ahead? Eh, he's Brock Lesnar, he can do what he wants, it's just wrestling. Sorry, but the guy is the epitome of an athlete who got caught up in his own hype, and expects to just get by by existing. He feels like just being Brock Lesnar should earn him a paycheck. And that is the definition of lazy to me. And while I'm on the subject, I just want to go ahead and state that I think his fight against Hunt was a complete bullshit job from beginning to end. Hunt can punch with the best of them, and it almost seemed to me like he was intentionally not doing so. There were so many times in that fight that Hunt had HUGE openings to go for a knockout punch, and just didn't, which makes NO sense seeing as everyone knows Brock's biggesg weakness is someone who comes after him swinging for the fences. He just circled the cage and waited on Brock to go for the kill. I'm not saying Brock knew about it (if he did, I believe he would have ended it quicker because, again, lazy), but there is just something wrong about that fight. You know, you're kind of right, as I think about it. I've only ever seen Brock show any type of grit or determination once in his athletic career, and that was the fight against Shane Carwin. Any other time he's won, he's done so in a very convincing fashion. He either totally dominates, or he wilts under any kind of adversity.
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Post by CMPunkyBrewster on Aug 10, 2016 23:58:44 GMT -5
I've stated this theory before, and was insulted for it. Now that the shine is coming off the douche, I'd like to try again: Yes. Lesnar is lazy. And also a bit of a pussy. He became a pro wrestler. He had the world handed to him on a platter. Huge push, best manager around, world titles, the works...and he walks away because it's hard. He doesn't like the schedule or the beating he has to take. Next comes the NFL. He goes, he trains, he ALMOST makes a team before getting cut at the last minute. So does he take a year to improve before trying again? Nope. He quits again because it's hard (and the fact that they didn't give a shit about him being Brock Lesnar probably didn't help). Next comes MMA, where he proceeds to do ok (sorry, but no one will ever convince me that a 6-3 record is better than ok, nor has any other fighter with that kind of record ever had the kind of hype that Lesnar has received). But even then, these "illnesses" kept delaying fights. I personally think there was at least a little bit of bullshit behind the health problems. But what really ran him out of MMA? Getting his ass handed to him twice in a row. Once he took some actual ass kickings, he decided once again that it was time to quit. And so WWE throws him a nice, fat contract, doesn't ask for much work, and sends their hype machine into overdrive for him. And how does he react? By being a giant f***ing baby who doesn't want to do ANYTHING outside of throwing the same god damn suplex OVER AND OVER AND OVER. The truth is, if ANY other person on this planet is even POSSIBLY lazy or uncooperative in their workplace, they are derided by everyone else on the planet. Someone messes up an order at McDonald's? They are automatically a lazy, stupid asshole. Brock Lesnar refuses to work with his opponent to help them get ahead? Eh, he's Brock Lesnar, he can do what he wants, it's just wrestling. Sorry, but the guy is the epitome of an athlete who got caught up in his own hype, and expects to just get by by existing. He feels like just being Brock Lesnar should earn him a paycheck. And that is the definition of lazy to me. And while I'm on the subject, I just want to go ahead and state that I think his fight against Hunt was a complete bullshit job from beginning to end. Hunt can punch with the best of them, and it almost seemed to me like he was intentionally not doing so. There were so many times in that fight that Hunt had HUGE openings to go for a knockout punch, and just didn't, which makes NO sense seeing as everyone knows Brock's biggesg weakness is someone who comes after him swinging for the fences. He just circled the cage and waited on Brock to go for the kill. I'm not saying Brock knew about it (if he did, I believe he would have ended it quicker because, again, lazy), but there is just something wrong about that fight. You know, you're kind of right, as I think about it. I've only ever seen Brock show any type of grit or determination once in his athletic career, and that was the fight against Shane Carwin. Any other time he's won, he's done so in a very convincing fashion. He either totally dominates, or he wilts under any kind of adversity. Being totally fair about it, the man was a legitimate freak of nature as an amateur wrestler. He clearly worked hard and won because of it. But after that, it seems like he has relied on his reputation to carry him through everything, and has just stopped trying. And his explanation for leaving UFC for WWE, "I can work part-time for full-time pay" does absolutely nothing to convince me that the man has any real desire to be a fighter. He simply wants as much money as possible for as little work as he can do. Which is why I think he initially pursued football: It's not a full time thing. You really only work about half the year. I think he would have been completely happy just riding the bench, collecting the money. Same thing with MMA: as long as he stayed in shape, he could train part time, run an 8 week camp before a fight, and then collect the money, which he's going to get a big cut of whether he wins or not because of his contract. Unfortunately for him, he can't really take a punch. As long as the fight is on the ground, he's good. Start swinging, and a featherweight can kick his ass because he has never learned to defend against it properly (which is probably attributable to being a lazy prick). The man has all the tools, but none of the drive. EDIT: And make no mistake, making a lot of money for very little work is pretty much everyone's dream, but I think most people also like to take pride in what it is that they do and their performance of the job. I get none of that from him. It's just "Pay me, and whatever else doesn't matter." He might be a smart businessman, but I refuse to accept that he is any sort of elite athlete. Not with that shit attitude and work ethic.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 11, 2016 0:23:00 GMT -5
The thing with the Ambrose match that puzzles me and ultimately irritates me is that he ruined both that match and ANY future matches they could have together. Now there's way less interest and intrigue in a match up between those two. It reminds me of the Mania match with Taker to be honest. Anything those two do in the future will have to first make up for that dud they produced. By the time that happens I'm pretty sure I'll want to see Brock and Dean facing everyone else but each other. All he had to do was whoop Ambrose's ass for like 8 more minutes. That's not at all hard to do. Taking a match off for a UFC fight that you cheated in is so ass backwards to me. There's stuff leading up to that fight that a lot of us said "Brock would never do that!" to. Well, he did it. So at the end of the day as much as I'd rather he not be a lazy dick; he's kind of a lazy dick. There's a difference between having your mind on your money and outright f***ing people over. Essentially this match was mapped already. All you had to do was follow the Roman vs Brock formula but take it a step further to show that it took Brock almost to "kill" Dean to put him down. Have him do the Taker show of respect with either a nod of respect or pat on the back and Dean is golden. The obvious story from WWE perspective was Dean took Brock to the limit but the product we got in the ring was Brock is beating down and then beats him with no fanfare or any incentive to look for a rematch. As I said before Brock basically went selfish mode and had UFC on mind. His desire to fight in UFC and getting busted as now cost him in regards to UFC and depending on Vince it may cost him leverage in WWE as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 0:48:31 GMT -5
As a fan of Brock, I would concede to this thread's argument...
...if the Dean Ambrose match wasn't the proof.
Because, let's face it, the only really good match Ambrose has had all year was that pointless one against Triple H in March. Until recently, he was notorious (and not in a widespread "general smark hivemind" sense, I mean on this very forum), for having dud matches on pay per view.
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Shai
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Shai on Aug 11, 2016 1:08:54 GMT -5
As a fan of Brock, I would concede to this thread's argument... ... if the Dean Ambrose match wasn't the proof. Because, let's face it, the only really good match Ambrose has had all year was that pointless one against Triple H in March. Wait so you'd be fine if anyone else other then Ambrose had said it? CMPunkyBrewster gave an entire list of reasonable examples without even mentioning Ambrose. I do disagree with your opinion of Ambrose's match work this year though.
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AFN: Judge Shred
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Aug 11, 2016 1:23:42 GMT -5
As a fan of Brock, I would concede to this thread's argument... ... if the Dean Ambrose match wasn't the proof. Because, let's face it, the only really good match Ambrose has had all year was that pointless one against Triple H in March. Until recently, he was notorious (and not in a widespread "general smark hivemind" sense, I mean on this very forum), for having dud matches on pay per view. His match with AJ was fantastic. So, there are at least 2.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 1:38:09 GMT -5
Ambrose/Owens had a great match at the Rumble so that's 3. FastLane was the triple threat with Reigns and Lesnar so that's 4. Payback he had a nice match with Jericho so that's 5 great matches on PPV if you add the other 2. 6 if you add the MITB ladder match. 7 if you add the Battleground triple threat.
That "Ambrose has bad matches on ppvs" thing isn't accurate, most of his matches this year on ppv have been dope besides the Lesnar and Asylum matches which were screwed because of Lesnar and the fact Ambrose/Jericho had to add 10 extra minutes due to a segment being cut...but I digress.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 1:54:20 GMT -5
As a fan of Brock, I would concede to this thread's argument... ... if the Dean Ambrose match wasn't the proof. Because, let's face it, the only really good match Ambrose has had all year was that pointless one against Triple H in March. Wait so you'd be fine if anyone else other then Ambrose had said it? CMPunkyBrewster gave an entire list of reasonable examples without even mentioning Ambrose. I do disagree with your opinion of Ambrose's match work this year though. CMPunkyBrewster Being flaky in terms of career path ≠ failing to deliver when on the job. And that's the $64,000 Question. We've seen that when Brock is required to go outside of his comfort zone that he makes stuff happen. But even disregarding that, I can't jibe with the notion that Lesnar's lazy because of his flaky career. real laziness doesn't bring results like he's had. Now, is he a quitter? Yes. But he put in his dues and made his mark before he quit each time (well, except for the NFL).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 2:08:40 GMT -5
I'd say he's more selfish than lazy. Who knows what the behind the scenes story is with Ambrose/Lesnar, we've only heard Ambrose's side of it, who knows if it was Lesnar's call to make the match 10 minutes as it was, which if the powers that be had determined it be 10 minutes, I don't know if it really matters what crazy ideas Ambrose had, the story the match needed to tell needed to be longer than that I think.
Lesnar showed the patience of a saint in his slow motion feud with Triple H. He let himself get a pretty damaging loss his first night in against Cena, I can buy the idea that Lesnar didn't want to put his body at risk before his big fight, which is kind of an understandable stance, despite being pretty frustrating to see the match that resulted. I think Lesnar will make anybody he's told to look good in most circumstances, but I don't see him as a guy who would go out of his way for anyone. It's been pretty transparent from the beginning that he's in it for the money, he just happens to be a one of a kind wrestler when he feels like showing it.
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Post by machomuta on Aug 11, 2016 3:32:46 GMT -5
It is not Brocks fault, that Ambrose cant have a good match without weapons.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Aug 11, 2016 4:01:35 GMT -5
I've stated this theory before, and was insulted for it. Now that the shine is coming off the douche, I'd like to try again: Yes. Lesnar is lazy. And also a bit of a pussy. He became a pro wrestler. He had the world handed to him on a platter. Huge push, best manager around, world titles, the works...and he walks away because it's hard. He doesn't like the schedule or the beating he has to take. Next comes the NFL. He goes, he trains, he ALMOST makes a team before getting cut at the last minute. So does he take a year to improve before trying again? Nope. He quits again because it's hard (and the fact that they didn't give a shit about him being Brock Lesnar probably didn't help). Next comes MMA, where he proceeds to do ok (sorry, but no one will ever convince me that a 6-3 record is better than ok, nor has any other fighter with that kind of record ever had the kind of hype that Lesnar has received). But even then, these "illnesses" kept delaying fights. I personally think there was at least a little bit of bullshit behind the health problems. But what really ran him out of MMA? Getting his ass handed to him twice in a row. Once he took some actual ass kickings, he decided once again that it was time to quit. And so WWE throws him a nice, fat contract, doesn't ask for much work, and sends their hype machine into overdrive for him. And how does he react? By being a giant f***ing baby who doesn't want to do ANYTHING outside of throwing the same god damn suplex OVER AND OVER AND OVER. The truth is, if ANY other person on this planet is even POSSIBLY lazy or uncooperative in their workplace, they are derided by everyone else on the planet. Someone messes up an order at McDonald's? They are automatically a lazy, stupid asshole. Brock Lesnar refuses to work with his opponent to help them get ahead? Eh, he's Brock Lesnar, he can do what he wants, it's just wrestling. Sorry, but the guy is the epitome of an athlete who got caught up in his own hype, and expects to just get by by existing. He feels like just being Brock Lesnar should earn him a paycheck. And that is the definition of lazy to me. And while I'm on the subject, I just want to go ahead and state that I think his fight against Hunt was a complete bullshit job from beginning to end. Hunt can punch with the best of them, and it almost seemed to me like he was intentionally not doing so. There were so many times in that fight that Hunt had HUGE openings to go for a knockout punch, and just didn't, which makes NO sense seeing as everyone knows Brock's biggesg weakness is someone who comes after him swinging for the fences. He just circled the cage and waited on Brock to go for the kill. I'm not saying Brock knew about it (if he did, I believe he would have ended it quicker because, again, lazy), but there is just something wrong about that fight. I don't recall the guy quitting the match or the WWE when he nearly broke his neck at Wm19. Diverticulitis is a real thing that would have drastically affected his health and performance. He doesn't just throw the same suplex over and over. Yes wm32 was shit and so was his attitude but he had four excellent matches in 2015. Anyway , enjoy the internet turning on Brock Lesnar.
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Emmet Russell
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Post by Emmet Russell on Aug 11, 2016 4:29:07 GMT -5
Absolutely, but if I could get paid to do 10 German suplexes and let someone else talk for me you're damn right I would. Fight me British scum.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 5:26:51 GMT -5
Absolutely, but if I could get paid to do 10 German suplexes and let someone else talk for me you're damn right I would. Fight me British scum. Reported.
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