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Post by turkeysandwich on Aug 11, 2016 7:26:05 GMT -5
As long as Vince is still around I just know it will end up like the episode of the Office where Oscar is outed, and in this case it will end with Vince trying to prove he's not homophobic by awkwardly trying to kiss Darren, who has no desire to be even touched by Vince.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,144
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Aug 11, 2016 7:32:19 GMT -5
<Vince> So, Dustin... still want to get those breast implants?
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Aug 11, 2016 7:34:22 GMT -5
As long as Vince is still around I just know it will end up like the episode of the Office where Oscar is outed, and in this case it will end with Vince trying to prove he's not homophobic by awkwardly trying to kiss Darren, who has no desire to be even touched by Vince. Vince: KISS ME.... KISS ME DAMMIT!!!!!!
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
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Post by Dub H on Aug 11, 2016 7:35:20 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 8:02:22 GMT -5
To be honest, and this is coming from a bisexual, it does have the potential to be a complete disaster, but there is one way for this to work.
The method is simple; have openly gay wrestlers on your roster that do not, and I repeat, DO NOT, have "gay" as their character trait. The problem is that WWE has done a relatively poor job promoting minorities and, for years prior, women by casting them into rigid roles. If WWE had an openly gay performer, I easily expect them to hammer home the fact that they are gay just like we're reminded every few seconds who Charlotte & Natalya are related to because subtlety is a lost art in the company. So, I have no hope that they'll do the right thing, and instead go for the "hitting you over the head" mentality they prefer.
Also, it's kind of ridiculous that we need to make a big deal about a guy being "gay". I look at animation these days, particularly for younger audiences, and they do it without hammering it home to you about the relationship. We all know about the ending of "The Legend of Korra", but also on another Nickelodeon show, "The Loud House", they recently debuted Lincoln Loud's friend Clyde's parents, who are a gay couple. Aside from having some sophisticated taste, Clyde's fathers are not pushed as gay but instead are overprotective of Clyde and have had colorful lives, based upon what the Loud sisters discuss. And on Cartoon Network's "Clarence", Jeff is raised by a lesbian couple. When they are able to do it while a company that tries to go for children (and young adults, too, though realistically, the majority of their crowd are old dudes nowadays) would make running gags about it, it just shows the lack of progressive thinking.
The other thing I worry about is stigma. I don't mean to go into politics, so I hope the mods are not offended by this because I want to be delicate, but it's a reality that a good portion of pro wrestlers are conservative (I mean, virtually all wrestlers who run for office run as Republicans), though the majority tend to be fiscal conservatives. You sometimes have to worry about the social conservatives who have homophobic views, and while many would probably maintain business above personal ideology, you'll probably have to eventually face a gay wrestler on the roster having to put up with somebody who may have views not unlike Jay Briscoe or the Ultimate Warrior. Also, this doesn't apply to just the performers; pretty much everybody who is in the higher ups in WWE is conservative, so there is always the fear that while they likely won't do what TNA did with their LGBT performers (by turning them into freak shows), they'll probably keep them towards the bottom of the card due to their gayness, regardless of talent. And, as long as babyfaces keep doing lame jokes about how their heel opponents are gay (especially when it's a "pot calling the kettle black" type of deal), that's another thing to look at.
And, I strongly disagree with Catch's concept of a gay guy being rewarded for token offense in a squash match. That's the "Everyone gets a trophy" type of mentality that just trivializes a performer and just ensures the crowd doesn't take him seriously. If the guy is a good performer, he should be taken seriously and not just celebrated every time he survives.
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Post by TheMediocreWarrior on Aug 11, 2016 8:02:31 GMT -5
This'd be pretty simple to do right. Put out an open invitation for tryouts for LGBT+ wrestlers. Integrate their real-life stories and experiences with prejudice in the same way as they've done with the difficult situations that some of the CWC wrestlers have gone through. Once they're on the roster, it can be part of their gimmick (on the level of Rusev coming to the ring with his wife) or as simple as them having their pride flag on their trunks like people do with their countries' flags, or have it just be part of their backstory without having too much influence on their stories - without erasing it. Also, hire people from an organisation like GLAAD to oversee things and sign off on any storylines so we don't have another repeat of the whole Billy and Chuck turmoil, and to call them out when WWE lapses back into the 'gay jokes are funny' routine. This sounds like the best way to go about it IMO. If a wrestler wants to have the rainbow flag on their wrestling gear, and talk about prejudice, that can be handled respectfully by WWE. I can't see WWE's writers doing actual LGBT storylines without it getting cringe worthy at some point.
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Post by Grand Papillon "The Banker" on Aug 11, 2016 8:14:10 GMT -5
Only way I could see work and not be a train wreck. Do a series of interviews with Darren Young similar to the old Jim Ross interviews with Mick Foley and Goldust. Have him talk about his road to the WWE, his friendship with Titus collapsing, and have him acknowledge his sexuality briefly and the special challenges he's faced because of it. Don't overdo it or focus the interview only on that. Just acknowledge on television that Darren Young is gay and go back to focusing on what Darren Young does in the ring instead of what he does in the privacy of his home.
We really don't need elaborate gay storylines or characters based completely around their sexuality. Most of the progress the LGBT community has made has come from the realization that ones sexuality is just a small part of who they are and not the defining characteristic and only important thing to know about a person
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 11, 2016 8:15:27 GMT -5
Do you trust WWE with this content? I don't. You know good and well that I said nothing about the existence of LGBT people. Overt sexual content isn't necessary or appropriate on a PG wrestling show. 1. How would having some gay people on the show constitute 'overtly sexual content' any more than having a bunch of straight people on the show? 2. Do you really think that exposing children to sexual content is "PC"? Wouldn't that be the exact opposite of politically correct?I would also like to know the answer to this.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Aug 11, 2016 8:16:56 GMT -5
Yes, how dare kids know that LGBT people exist! Do you trust WWE with this content? I don't. You know good and well that I said nothing about the existence of LGBT people. Overt sexual content isn't necessary or appropriate on a PG wrestling show. But would it have to be overtly sexual? There's really only two things I could assume you maybe mean here: a) You don't think they can show gay characters unless there is an actual sexual act being performed at that very moment, which is incorrect since you could easily just have a tag team who are in a relationship be a thing and never have anyone not with their clothes on. b) You see any form of homosexuality as inherently sexual and that two dudes kissing would somehow be more inapprioriate and explicit than a man and a woman kissing, which is its own can of worms Like, I don't trust WWE to handle this in a tasteful way either, but rating really does not come into this at all and there are increasingly more ways that television and movies are doing LGBT characters in child-friendly settings right now without showing sex, or anything inappropriate in the least.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 11, 2016 8:21:39 GMT -5
This'd be pretty simple to do right. Put out an open invitation for tryouts for LGBT+ wrestlers. Integrate their real-life stories and experiences with prejudice in the same way as they've done with the difficult situations that some of the CWC wrestlers have gone through. Once they're on the roster, it can be part of their gimmick (on the level of Rusev coming to the ring with his wife) or as simple as them having their pride flag on their trunks like people do with their countries' flags, or have it just be part of their backstory without having too much influence on their stories - without erasing it. Also, hire people from an organisation like GLAAD to oversee things and sign off on any storylines so we don't have another repeat of the whole Billy and Chuck turmoil, and to call them out when WWE lapses back into the 'gay jokes are funny' routine. This, I think would be the one practical way to pull it off without it feeling patronising or insulting to viewers. Given how backwards wrestling has been about the subject, just the idea of an openly LGBT talent existing as normal and not having their orientation turned into a big angle would be a revolutionary step.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Aug 11, 2016 8:21:51 GMT -5
I just wanna know what kind of story would even bring it up?
"Im gonna kick your ass and take your championship....also. I like dudes....SEE YOU ON SUNDAY!!"
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Aug 11, 2016 8:23:11 GMT -5
Am I missing a joke somewhere? They have been incoperating gay characters since the 80's. Then Golddust in the 90's, Chuck and Billy, Mickie James and Victoria. It's not the predominance of the show but its not as though it has never happened
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Aug 11, 2016 8:24:11 GMT -5
Is Vince finally ready to come out? Subtle. Well done. Well done
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 8:27:03 GMT -5
T The other thing I worry about is stigma. I don't mean to go into politics, so I hope the mods are not offended by this because I want to be delicate, but it's a reality that a good portion of pro wrestlers are conservative (I mean, virtually all wrestlers who run for office run as Republicans), though the majority tend to be fiscal conservatives. You sometimes have to worry about the social conservatives who have homophobic views, and while many would probably maintain business above personal ideology, you'll probably have to eventually face a gay wrestler on the roster having to put up with somebody who may have views not unlike Jay Briscoe or the Ultimate Warrior. Also, this doesn't apply to just the performers; pretty much everybody who is in the higher ups in WWE is conservative, so there is always the fear that while they likely won't do what TNA did with their LGBT performers (by turning them into freak shows), they'll probably keep them towards the bottom of the card due to their gayness, regardless of talent. And, as long as babyfaces keep doing lame jokes about how their heel opponents are gay (especially when it's a "pot calling the kettle black" type of deal), that's another thing to look at. It's not about us getting offended. It's about us following either the terms of service that Proboards have or not wanting pages of people flaming each other back and forth, telling each other to die.
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Post by Grand Papillon "The Banker" on Aug 11, 2016 8:27:47 GMT -5
1. How would having some gay people on the show constitute 'overtly sexual content' any more than having a bunch of straight people on the show? 2. Do you really think that exposing children to sexual content is "PC"? Wouldn't that be the exact opposite of politically correct?I would also like to know the answer to this. Sexual content? I feel like this is one thing many people still get very wrong about the LGBT community and it bothers me. There's always this focus on just the sexual acts and not about actual relationships. There are plenty of relationships in children's movies including Disney movies. Saying a male character attracted to another male character exposes children more to sexual content than seeing Ariel fall in love with Eric comes from a place of bias. Parents don't have to explain the missionary position to their children after watching The Little Mermaid so why is there this thought that there needs to be a focus on the implied sexual acts when it involves LGBT characters?
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Aug 11, 2016 8:27:53 GMT -5
Maybe she misunderstood what they're talking about and she just thinks LGBT is that hobby promotion HHH has down in Flroida
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 11, 2016 8:29:06 GMT -5
just the idea of an openly LGBT talent existing as normal and not having their orientation turned into a big angle would be a revolutionary step. Well there's Darren Young as stated. Though I think Stephanie said something stupid like his character isn't gay or something... but maybe she meant that as in his character isn't that he's gay. Since, gay isn't a character, it's a trait to a character.
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"Magic" Mark Hurr
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Here, have some chili dogs
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Post by "Magic" Mark Hurr on Aug 11, 2016 8:38:56 GMT -5
I just don't see WWE being responsible enough to do this with the respect and translation it deserves. They barely get what they are doing now right. They've been saved by the wrestlers who get certain things over.
They have to start by convincingly not marginalizing personality traits and guys and women who don't fit molds that they love to put front and center.
They act like things don't get over despite their initial plans. How are they gonna do this without it feeling really forced?
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Aug 11, 2016 8:39:43 GMT -5
just the idea of an openly LGBT talent existing as normal and not having their orientation turned into a big angle would be a revolutionary step. Well there's Darren Young as stated. Though I think Stephanie said something stupid like his character isn't gay or something... but maybe she meant that as in his character isn't that he's gay. Since, gay isn't a character, it's a trait to a character. Does he have a BF irl? I mean, he could be introduced and shown in an interview/segment, supporting Young in a realistic, non-farsical way. This all seems..pointless considering DY has gotten over imo w/ the help of Backlund but if they feel its oh-so-necessary to intoduce "gay charaters"..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 8:40:01 GMT -5
1. How would having some gay people on the show constitute 'overtly sexual content' any more than having a bunch of straight people on the show? 2. Do you really think that exposing children to sexual content is "PC"? Wouldn't that be the exact opposite of politically correct?I would also like to know the answer to this. I can't say the whole answer, but I know that in 1996, the WWF made Goldust "PC" by turning him into a homophobe after Jerry Lawler asked if he was a queer. You know, the first year of that character alone is a study in presenting LGBT characters and how WWF did it where everybody got mad on all sides of the discussion.
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