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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Aug 11, 2016 8:42:10 GMT -5
Speaking as a member of the queer community... no thanks.
There's virtually no way to do this in a way that is sensitive and makes sense.
As I said when DY came out publicly, the first and only time I want to see his sexuality mentioned on TV is if he wins the world title and his boyfriend/husband is at ringside and they have a celebratory kiss.
You could have two tag team partners who are also lovers, but wrestling, especially now, is such an insanely meta world already that that doesn't work. And given that real world relationships have already shown themselves to have storyline-snapping capabilities (hello Rusev/Lana) it just wouldn't work.
Then if you hire a gay or lesbian or trans wrestler on the basis of them being a part of that group you're into affirmative action/positive discrimination territory.
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Post by Prince Petty on Aug 11, 2016 8:46:01 GMT -5
I have complete faith in the WWE not to make an embarrassing, cringeworthy hash of this. Does no one remember the enlightened and empowering HLA angle? Billy and Chuck's frank, evenly presented relationship? The acceptance of Rico and early Goldust, and how they never once succumbed to playing for cheap homophobic reactions?
It'll all be fine, I'm sure....
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Shai
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Post by Shai on Aug 11, 2016 8:52:59 GMT -5
This is going to backfire horribly isn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 8:55:13 GMT -5
This is all a smokescreen to get Chrisley on Raw, isn't it?
ISN'T IT?!!
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Post by Hickster on Aug 11, 2016 8:56:07 GMT -5
Speaking as a member of the queer community... no thanks. There's virtually no way to do this in a way that is sensitive and makes sense. As I said when DY came out publicly, the first and only time I want to see his sexuality mentioned on TV is if he wins the world title and his boyfriend/husband is at ringside and they have a celebratory kiss. You could have two tag team partners who are also lovers, but wrestling, especially now, is such an insanely meta world already that that doesn't work. And given that real world relationships have already shown themselves to have storyline-snapping capabilities (hello Rusev/Lana) it just wouldn't work. Then if you hire a gay or lesbian or trans wrestler on the basis of them being a part of that group you're into affirmative action/positive discrimination territory. Excellent post, btw. If the WWE was trying so hard to promote their openness/acceptance/the word escapes me, why didn't they discuss such measures at a corporate level? We all know they will fail to do this properly on screen-if it even can be done properly.
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Post by Johawn on Aug 11, 2016 9:23:34 GMT -5
Playing...not devil's advocate, but presenting a hypothetical situation.
Say WWE hires a transgender wrestler. Or presents a non-transgender wrestler as transgender. And then runs the angle. This character is going to compete in the women's division. She faces resistance and is basically bullied by the heels of the women's division. Faces adversity, as all babyfaces do, but within the context that the heels claim that she doesn't belong. It is clearly communicated that the heels are wrong here. Commentary is on her side - trying to communicate that this shouldn't be an issue. Even heel commentators, at most, will not directly say "she doesn't belong." Maybe they'll say "I'm having a hard time accepting this." Babyfaces are obviously accepting and have no issue. Maybe one babyface is conflicted, doesn't understand, but comes round to acceptance. The arc runs its course, our transgender babyface wins the Women's title, and that's the end of it. The issue is resolved, everyone accepts, it's never mentioned again - she just continues to compete in the women's division as an equal.
That's the scenario. Now, I personally don't have a lot of faith that it could be treated with intelligence (in my head they eventually turn her heel and...ugh, it'd get messy), but let's say it is. Do you think there's a place for WWE to run an angle such as this and raise awareness and acceptance for transgender issues? Do you think it could have a positive effect? Do you think that WWE can do play it 100% perfect, but the risk of the crowd response is too big a leap to make? What do you think?
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Aug 11, 2016 9:27:55 GMT -5
1. How would having some gay people on the show constitute 'overtly sexual content' any more than having a bunch of straight people on the show? 2. Do you really think that exposing children to sexual content is "PC"? Wouldn't that be the exact opposite of politically correct?I would also like to know the answer to this. It's actually been a long, hotly debated topic in other (that is to say, non-wrestling, obviously) contexts. Some say that children should be exposed to sexual content from a young age so that they'll be more accepting of any and all sexualities and sexual proclivities as they grow up (since they'll be conditioned to it from their impressionable, formative years and will never be taught of any sort of sexuality as "not normal"). Others still say it's wholly inappropriate at best, and corrupting/sexualizing minors at worst.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Aug 11, 2016 9:29:20 GMT -5
Playing...not devil's advocate, but presenting a hypothetical situation. Say WWE hires a transgender wrestler. Or presents a non-transgender wrestler as transgender. And then runs the angle. This character is going to compete in the women's division. She faces resistance and is basically bullied by the heels of the women's division. Faces adversity, as all babyfaces do, but within the context that the heels claim that she doesn't belong. It is clearly communicated that the heels are wrong here. Commentary is on her side - trying to communicate that this shouldn't be an issue. Even heel commentators, at most, will not directly say "she doesn't belong." Maybe they'll say "I'm having a hard time accepting this." Babyfaces are obviously accepting and have no issue. Maybe one babyface is conflicted, doesn't understand, but comes round to acceptance. The arc runs its course, our transgender babyface wins the Women's title, and that's the end of it. The issue is resolved, everyone accepts, it's never mentioned again - she just continues to compete in the women's division as an equal. That's the scenario. Now, I personally don't have a lot of faith that it could be treated with intelligence (in my head they eventually turn her heel and...ugh, it'd get messy), but let's say it is. Do you think there's a place for WWE to run an angle such as this and raise awareness and acceptance for transgender issues? Do you think it could have a positive effect? Do you think that WWE can do play it 100% perfect, but the risk of the crowd response is too big a leap to make? What do you think? There are a million things that are possible to do in wrestling but not in WWE, and there are a lot of reasons why. - Having squeamish advertisers - Being on American television - Lack of knowledge about trans issues generally - The issue of inter-gender violence regardless of what gender either party is And then you have the fact that WWE is, while much improved, a frathouse full of assholes. I am usually a WWE defender and while the ground level workers would likely be very accepting, the higher level staff are still the king of burials, Ms. 'Charity is good PR' and Mr. 'Thinks colonoscopies are funny.' There are a lot more issues what you specifically posted, but pedantry's not going to help anything here.
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Aug 11, 2016 9:31:00 GMT -5
I can't wait to see Jericho washing KO's back next week. Daddy washing a Bear's back.
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Aug 11, 2016 9:35:29 GMT -5
So how is this going to work, exactly? Nobody on the roster has LGBT as an explicit character trait other than Darren Young, and even then, it's not right at the forefront of his character. He just is because the man in real life is. Anything added to an existing character might feel forced and tokenistic. Well there is Paige, and part of her character used to be crawling over downed opponents, and she's licked people in the ring. Reminded me a hell lot of Mickie James. Mickie used to kiss her opponents (if I remember correctly) and she even did the finger licking gesture. Is Mickie bisexual too?
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Aug 11, 2016 9:36:24 GMT -5
Playing...not devil's advocate, but presenting a hypothetical situation. Say WWE hires a transgender wrestler. Or presents a non-transgender wrestler as transgender. And then runs the angle. This character is going to compete in the women's division. She faces resistance and is basically bullied by the heels of the women's division. Faces adversity, as all babyfaces do, but within the context that the heels claim that she doesn't belong. It is clearly communicated that the heels are wrong here. Commentary is on her side - trying to communicate that this shouldn't be an issue. Even heel commentators, at most, will not directly say "she doesn't belong." Maybe they'll say "I'm having a hard time accepting this." Babyfaces are obviously accepting and have no issue. Maybe one babyface is conflicted, doesn't understand, but comes round to acceptance. The arc runs its course, our transgender babyface wins the Women's title, and that's the end of it. The issue is resolved, everyone accepts, it's never mentioned again - she just continues to compete in the women's division as an equal. That's the scenario. Now, I personally don't have a lot of faith that it could be treated with intelligence (in my head they eventually turn her heel and...ugh, it'd get messy), but let's say it is. Do you think there's a place for WWE to run an angle such as this and raise awareness and acceptance for transgender issues? Do you think it could have a positive effect? Do you think that WWE can do play it 100% perfect, but the risk of the crowd response is too big a leap to make? What do you think? The trans issue is something I honestly don't want to see WWE go anywhere near. From what I can tell, though, it's becoming a lot more common in geek-interest circles (which despite Vince and Hunter's objections, pro wrestling fits snugly into right now; look at how many wrestlers end up at SDCC) over the past 4-5 years. It's somewhat of a personal issue (though I'm not entirely comfortable talking much about all of it), and I just don't want to see Stephanie ham-fistedly trying to put her mitts all over it and make it even more awkward.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Aug 11, 2016 9:39:53 GMT -5
It seems simple. DY has come out, it's widely known. Why not during Raw when they do those occasional vignettes that show wrestlers at charity events/make a wish show him at a pride festival (if he's actually interested in doing that). WWE confirms on TV he's gay, shows him doing something productive in the name of the WWE and those who watch wrestling with the understanding that wrestlers are characters with real life people playing them will see the connection between the two worlds.
It's a much more subtle way of wwe showing support without hammering it over us in the way they normally do.
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Post by James Fabiano on Aug 11, 2016 9:39:57 GMT -5
Hard Gay Razor Ramon is signed or not supporting this.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 9:43:41 GMT -5
I have no faith in them doing this well but maybe they will surprise.
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Post by James Fabiano on Aug 11, 2016 9:44:19 GMT -5
Quick....are the remains of the Flower Shop set still in the WWE warehouse?
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Post by Andy Martin on Aug 11, 2016 9:49:43 GMT -5
I mean our fearless darling Triple H is bi-a lot of things.
On a serious note, I don't see this going well(and I mean wrestling in general, not just WWE)
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Aug 11, 2016 9:49:52 GMT -5
Can't they just replace the first hour of Raw with episodes of Steven Universe and call it a day.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Aug 11, 2016 9:55:25 GMT -5
I mean our fearless darling Triple H is bi-a lot of things. On a serious note, I don't see this going well(and I mean wrestling in general, not just WWE) It could work in Lucha Underground (due to the larger degree of separation between the wrestler's on-screen persona and off-screen life), but not really anywhere else, IMO.
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Post by moondoggie on Aug 11, 2016 9:55:42 GMT -5
Andromeda comes to WWE? Orlando Jordan returns? AJ Styles proclaims his support for the gay community?
YOU'RE TEARING ME APART WWE!!!
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Post by Nickybojelais on Aug 11, 2016 9:56:45 GMT -5
WWE are going to end up looking like the David Brent character from 'The Office'. They will try desperately hard to say and do the right things, but will ultimately end up offending everyone due to their lack of tact or subtlety.
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