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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Aug 24, 2016 18:04:30 GMT -5
THIS. Heenan was great at times, but Jesse was in a whole other tier by himself. You could plug Jesse in any era and he would have been excellent. I wish we could have had him in the Attitude Era only to hear how outraged he would have been over Austin's antics. But that would have meant that Jesse would be defending Vince. You could similarly ask had he stayed in WCW, would Jesse be pro-Hogan post BATB '96. No way. I'm positive Jesse would have had the same "See? I told you so!" reaction that Heenan did.
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tms
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Post by tms on Aug 24, 2016 19:21:24 GMT -5
Did they find a bunch of bodies in Heenan's crawl space?? Hearing people not like something he did is so odd. I haven't seen anyone trash Heenan in this thread. I personally find that he's been borderline deified on this forum in particular, and as has been stated earlier I feel his work from a few select events (especially RR92) has given him a significant degree of immunity from criticism, while someone like Tony Schiavone (who was an excellent play by play man for years before he was reduced to a company shill by Bischoff) has been reduced to a constant subject of scorn and ridicule largely stemming from Heenan's very public dislike of the man. I think Heenan was certainly the best manager of all time, but when he wasn't playing off Monsoon his schtick could wear thin fast. There were times when he was terrific as the neutral/heel color commentator in WCW, but overall I'd rate him solidly below Ventura and among Heyman and Lawler. No shame in that.
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Aug 24, 2016 19:48:02 GMT -5
But that would have meant that Jesse would be defending Vince. You could similarly ask had he stayed in WCW, would Jesse be pro-Hogan post BATB '96. No way. I'm positive Jesse would have had the same "See? I told you so!" reaction that Heenan did. Would that turn Jesse babyface? That new "cool heel" dynamic that the nWo brought was what made Bobby Heenan look dated just as much as the corny insults and jokes. Would Jesse suffer a similar fate?
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Post by Racksman on Aug 24, 2016 19:52:05 GMT -5
I didn't even get past the first page before I had to say holy shit, people are blaming the way Mick Foley's WCW run went on Bobby Heenan?!
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tms
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Post by tms on Aug 25, 2016 0:28:02 GMT -5
No way. I'm positive Jesse would have had the same "See? I told you so!" reaction that Heenan did. Would that turn Jesse babyface? That new "cool heel" dynamic that the nWo brought was what made Bobby Heenan look dated just as much as the corny insults and jokes. Would Jesse suffer a similar fate? Jesse was a cool heel before cool heels were cool.
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Aug 25, 2016 2:50:20 GMT -5
Would that turn Jesse babyface? That new "cool heel" dynamic that the nWo brought was what made Bobby Heenan look dated just as much as the corny insults and jokes. Would Jesse suffer a similar fate? Jesse was a cool heel before cool heels were cool. Now here's my thing. I could easily see Jesse as part of the nWo. But would he be part of an nWo where Hogan would be the leader?
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Post by Milkman Norm on Aug 25, 2016 9:15:56 GMT -5
From another angle. Bobby Hennan the character was a heel. But Bobby Heenan the guy who'd been in the business for years understood that his job was to help get the faces over. His heel comments all were to serve that purpose. By the late 90s I think that kind of commentary was gone.
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Post by MrElijah on Aug 25, 2016 10:12:00 GMT -5
Jesse was a cool heel before cool heels were cool. Now here's my thing. I could easily see Jesse as part of the nWo. But would he be part of an nWo where Hogan would be the leader? Jesse would be like Heenan: respect their style but HATE Hogan.
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Post by mauled on Aug 25, 2016 10:14:59 GMT -5
From another angle. Bobby Hennan the character was a heel. But Bobby Heenan the guy who'd been in the business for years understood that his job was to help get the faces over. His heel comments all were to serve that purpose. By the late 90s I think that kind of commentary was gone. By the early 90's that was gone. Look at SumnerSlam 92 or Survivor Series 92 or WM9 , he was like out a fish out of water
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Post by mauled on Aug 25, 2016 10:16:47 GMT -5
Now here's my thing. I could easily see Jesse as part of the nWo. But would he be part of an nWo where Hogan would be the leader? Jesse would be like Heenan: respect their style but HATE Hogan. But the difference was some of Jesse's in character points were legitimate, Heenans never were.
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Post by MrElijah on Aug 25, 2016 10:21:00 GMT -5
Jesse would be like Heenan: respect their style but HATE Hogan. But the difference was some of Jesse's in character points were legitimate, Heenans never were. That's the key difference. Heenan was a bullshit artist, Jesse looked for holes and call out the faces hypocrisy. For good Jesse commentary, watch WM V's main event, he just tears into Hulk.
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Post by mauled on Aug 25, 2016 10:27:08 GMT -5
But the difference was some of Jesse's in character points were legitimate, Heenans never were. That's the key difference. Heenan was a bullshit artist, Jesse looked for holes and call out the faces hypocrisy. For good Jesse commentary, watch WM V's main event, he just tears into Hulk. That's true. The point he makes about the challenger should be coming out first, was perfectly true. That's why Heenan would never make it. He was just a Dick Dastardly type character on commentary, which was why he was so 1 note
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Aug 25, 2016 10:31:55 GMT -5
I've always thought Jesse was miles ahead of Heenan. Then again, I've never understood the over the top Heenan love here and elsewhere. He was great when paired with Monsoon, but otherwise...(shrug)
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 25, 2016 10:43:21 GMT -5
I've always thought Jesse was miles ahead of Heenan. Then again, I've never understood the over the top Heenan love here and elsewhere. He was great when paired with Monsoon, but otherwise...(shrug) I always felt like Ventura was more consistent, but that Heenan had nights or particular matches he was really on, like slagging Stu Hart or calling Hogan vs Goldberg, especially when the title changed hangs and the nWo couldn't do anything about it. Those are two instances where, in the first one, it was him being probably his funniest, followed by his most real and credible work.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 10:58:17 GMT -5
I've always thought Jesse was miles ahead of Heenan. Then again, I've never understood the over the top Heenan love here and elsewhere. He was great when paired with Monsoon, but otherwise...(shrug) A few things, as I sit at work and try not to work.... ;p 1) He's more representative of '90s WWF than Jesse was. I got into wrestling in 1989, so Jesse was a year from leaving and Bobby had several more in him. And that familiarity with Bobby absolutely took me to WCW for the first time as well. 2) His commentary was a funny guy routine, with Gorilla playing the straight man, and I think that'd stick more with high school & younger kids than heel Jesse did. Over time heel Jesse would grow more of a following, and perhaps Bobby's schtick wouldn't age as well (as was the case in WCW), but the nostalgia factor would still live and keep Bobby pretty popular. 3) I think, perhaps, the fact that Bobby literally can't do commentary anymore makes some even more appreciative and nostalgic for the times we had with him in the past...
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Aug 25, 2016 11:06:19 GMT -5
Those are all valid points. Personally, I just didn't find Bobby Heenan to be all that funny. I usually found Gorilla's reactions to him far more amusing than him.
Please don't get me wrong here, folks. I enjoy Heenan's work, but I just think he's kind of placed on an unrealistic pedestal.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Aug 25, 2016 12:12:46 GMT -5
Considering that the biggest cartoon in the world, Jerry Lawler got over, I am positive a quick smart guy like Bobby would have adapted right away.
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