Heenan in the Attitude Era

[taker1990]

Giving he had to work with kinda a filter in WWF/WCW but I think he'd be even better without one.

Agree/Disagree?

[The Dark Order Inferno]

Disagree, given how horrendously dated and just plain horrendous a lot of his humour actually was pre-attitude era, the guy would have come off considerably worse without a filter. Also he would have ruined big moments by making inappropriate jokes, like the time he made light of a big spot in a Vader/Cactus Jack match, Jack gets powerbombed onto concrete, Heenan acted like it was a jobber taking a finisher on Superstars. Ugh. I can understand why Foley wasn't a fan.

An interview is often only as good as the guy who is reacting to it. Too often I've seen great promos negated by an opponent who instantly belittles the great promo that has just been given or belittles the guy giving the promo, which is just as bad. For example, I've never believed in treating my opponent like a piece of garbage, because if I win, all I've done is beat a piece of garbage. If I lose, well, certainly I can't be that good, since I lost to a man who [sic] I have built up to be nothing.

Just as bad are the guys who don't react at all. I worked with a famous announcer in WCW (not Jesse Ventura) who made a hell of a lot more money than me but continually undermined the wrestlers by not selling what was said. As a heel, it didn't matter how convincing you were on the mike because a sneaky little comment from that guy would kill any heat. As a babyface, it was tough to leave a lasting memory when the guy was always waiting with some stupid comment designed to get himself over.

[auph10imitated]

He was a shell of his former self in WCW, he didnt seem to care. I dont think he cared for the people he worked with either. He had awesome chemistry with the people he worked with in WWF. His humour would have been dated in the Attitide Era, its like comparing a 80's comedy classic to South Park. Apples and Oranges.

[Milkman Norm]

Slight aside. I think Bobby was pretty good in WCW till about 1998. I think the biggest issue with the guys who worked that 80s WWF commentry style was that it was designed to fit a certain match forumla. In the slower pace matches of WWF the commentary went basically comment on the match, heel makes joke, face responds, repeat. Now you get into more action orented matches, or something like lucha where that limited time was needed by Mike Tenay to explain to the audience what was happening and suddenly Heenan's role in the both doesn't really exist anymore.

[SmashTV]

His commentary was very much for the time - glib putdowns, putting his foot in his mouth, antagonising Monsoon...it fitted in with the cartoon era, and he was very good at it. However, try and have him go verbally toe to toe with Austin or The Rock, and he'd seem outdated and the product of a bygone era.

["Playboy" Don Douglas]

He would have been fine. He could sell a big moment as well as anyone, and was quick witted enough to not get lost in the shuffle.

He himself admitted to using dated references in the last few years at WCW, and also that because he was miserable working there, he didn't care.

As for not selling the Vader - Cactus finish as anything more than a jobber squash, think of this: without the benefit of hindsight or knowing from Foley's book that they were hoping to build something big from it (because I can just about guarantee no one in WCW informed the announcers), what does it look like? Vader squashing someone. Again. Yeah, in more brutal fashion than normal, but it's against the guy who routinely jumps off the apron and splats himself on the floor. I'm sure he'll be fine.

In the end, being "Lost In Cleveland" hurt that whole thing way more than a throwaway call by the announce team.

[OVO 40 hunched over like he 80]

Aug 22, 2016 7:16:19 GMT -5 The Dark Order Inferno said:

Disagree, given how horrendously dated and just plain horrendous a lot of his humour actually was pre-attitude era, the guy would have come off considerably worse without a filter. Also he would have ruined big moments by making inappropriate jokes, like the time he made light of a big spot in a Vader/Cactus Jack match, Jack gets powerbombed onto concrete, Heenan acted like it was a jobber taking a finisher on Superstars. Ugh. I can understand why Foley wasn't a fan.

An interview is often only as good as the guy who is reacting to it. Too often I've seen great promos negated by an opponent who instantly belittles the great promo that has just been given or belittles the guy giving the promo, which is just as bad. For example, I've never believed in treating my opponent like a piece of garbage, because if I win, all I've done is beat a piece of garbage. If I lose, well, certainly I can't be that good, since I lost to a man who [sic] I have built up to be nothing.

Just as bad are the guys who don't react at all. I worked with a famous announcer in WCW (not Jesse Ventura) who made a hell of a lot more money than me but continually undermined the wrestlers by not selling what was said. As a heel, it didn't matter how convincing you were on the mike because a sneaky little comment from that guy would kill any heat. As a babyface, it was tough to leave a lasting memory when the guy was always waiting with some stupid comment designed to get himself over.

This.

He f***ed Mick Foley beyond repair. I believe that it was the main reason why Mick left WCW.

I don't think Heenan would've translated well, as a manager maybe but he couldn't take bumps anymore.

[SAJ Forth]

Tough to say. All the action was taking a drastically different direction.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Aug 22, 2016 7:16:19 GMT -5 The Dark Order Inferno said:

Disagree, given how horrendously dated and just plain horrendous a lot of his humour actually was pre-attitude era, the guy would have come off considerably worse without a filter. Also he would have ruined big moments by making inappropriate jokes, like the time he made light of a big spot in a Vader/Cactus Jack match, Jack gets powerbombed onto concrete, Heenan acted like it was a jobber taking a finisher on Superstars. Ugh. I can understand why Foley wasn't a fan.

An interview is often only as good as the guy who is reacting to it. Too often I've seen great promos negated by an opponent who instantly belittles the great promo that has just been given or belittles the guy giving the promo, which is just as bad. For example, I've never believed in treating my opponent like a piece of garbage, because if I win, all I've done is beat a piece of garbage. If I lose, well, certainly I can't be that good, since I lost to a man who [sic] I have built up to be nothing.

Just as bad are the guys who don't react at all. I worked with a famous announcer in WCW (not Jesse Ventura) who made a hell of a lot more money than me but continually undermined the wrestlers by not selling what was said. As a heel, it didn't matter how convincing you were on the mike because a sneaky little comment from that guy would kill any heat. As a babyface, it was tough to leave a lasting memory when the guy was always waiting with some stupid comment designed to get himself over.

Are we sure that wasn't Larry Zybysko?

[The Dark Order Inferno]

Given how he mentioned the fact he was being paid more than he was as an active wrestler, I'm inclined to believe it's Heenan as WCW threw silly money at him to get him to sign. I don't think there was a bidding war for Larry Z.

["Playboy" Don Douglas]

And again, booking Jack as an amnesiac hobo who fixes bicycles for children on the streets of Cleveland killed that whole thing, not an announcer on Worldwide.

[mauled]

Heenan seemed dated by 92 in the WWF, his Cartoon Dick Darstadly heel just didn't work by then. Jesse Ventura would have been a much better fit

[auph10imitated]

Alot of the Attitude Era commentary was also talking about what was going on throughought the show as well, rather than concentrating on the actual match, this never really happened in the 80's there was breif discussion about current events but it was soley a back and forth between the announcers over what was going on currently in that match. I dont think Heenan was suited to that style of discussing the past event of the hour. In WCW IIRC, he kind of bypassed that and would always bring the topic back to the match.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

Listen to Heenan's 'comedy' calling any match involving a minority or discussion of current events, then watch any episode of the Simpsons where Krusty the Clown tries non physical comedy and dies on his feet because comedy has moved on, it's pretty much the same material, he's just missing the flapping dickey. You could forgive impersonating Don Rickles in the 1970s but he was still doing it in the 90s.

[MrElijah]

I wonder how manager Bobby would translate.

I can see him selling the Stunner like death.

[mauled]

Aug 23, 2016 3:26:42 GMT -5 auph10imitated said:

Alot of the Attitude Era commentary was also talking about what was going on throughought the show as well, rather than concentrating on the actual match, this never really happened in the 80's there was breif discussion about current events but it was soley a back and forth between the announcers over what was going on currently in that match. I dont think Heenan was suited to that style of discussing the past event of the hour. In WCW IIRC, he kind of bypassed that and would always bring the topic back to the match.

It wasn't just then. His commentary in 92/93 WWF was awful and just out of place.

[Mozenrath]

Aug 23, 2016 6:52:45 GMT -5 MrElijah said:

I wonder how manager Bobby would translate.

I can see him selling the Stunner like death.

If his neck was still f***ed up, it might not take too much acting on his part.

[Deleted]

I remember even back in 92 when Bret and Piper embraced after their WM 8 match, Heenan said something like "who cares, it doesn't put money in my pocket". I thought that was such a pointless thing to say when he could have just kept quiet and let Monsoon sell it.

Heenan was a funny character, but I found his announcing incredibly overrated. He couldn't touch Ventura, IMO.

[Mozenrath]

Heenan is a guy where I feel you can say the good and bad things said about him are both accurate, certainly in WCW, but I will say that WCW had one of his best moments as a commentator. I am not sure anyone could have sold Goldberg defeating Hogan quite as good. He sounds like every fight against Hogan in WWF and every moment of contempt he had watching Hogan run roughshod over WCW has culminated in that very moment, and it's a wonderful thing.

[thecrusherwi]

How could that Foley thing have been Heenan? Wasn't that whole feud in the Summer/Fall of 1993 when Heenan was still in WWF?