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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Aug 28, 2016 12:41:22 GMT -5
I still haven't watched it, as I'm at work and my high speed data is long gone, but I read a recap and saw some still shots. Without having properly watched it, I'm prepared to call it the stupidest f***ing thing I've ever seen. There have been moon rocks in wrestling angles. Mike Davis, GWF. I saw it when it originally aired. I stand by my statement.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2016 12:44:16 GMT -5
There have been moon rocks in wrestling angles. Mike Davis, GWF. I saw it when it originally aired. I stand by my statement. I dunno man. Moon rocks . There was also Muta impregnating that woman with his mist. I guess there's some logic to that.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Aug 28, 2016 12:44:34 GMT -5
I've seen bits and pieces of it, and it IS stupid, but in an "Ed Wood" kind of way. If I thought that was intentional, I'd love that. But what I'm pretty sure happened is that Matt and Jeff are being allowed to book themselves in storylines they probably dreamed up when they were teenagers, and it's just....awful. Yep. The Hardyz just aren't clever enough for Ed Wood style storytelling. One thought telling Edge to die in a car crash and later tease suicide would be a good idea, the other gave us Willow. If you enjoy it, fine, but don't try to paint it as something it's not. Right. All due respect to ChazRaps. I tend to agree with you more often than not, but to say that this is anything other than a really stupid angle, on a really large scale, is inaccurate. It's certainly not "required watching" or anything that's "changed the face of wrestling for good or ill".
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Aug 28, 2016 14:03:35 GMT -5
I don't know if this would qualify but since he tends to get some flack for this...I think Lex Luger was a very good worker who should get more credit for the matches he had. At this point Luger is basically underrated. He knew what to get done, and he was over.Owen Hart WASN'T the greatest wrestler of all time. I don't understand the big deal about Owen. I've never seen him do anything that made him particularly unique or special. Sasha Banks tries too hard, in the sense that she takes stupid bumps that aren't necessary and will damage her career in the long run. These days I don't think that's particularly unpopular on here, and I agree. Agreed. One of my favourites of all time even though I can count on one hand the matches of his I've enjoyed. I think it's mostly promos and Rumble appearances. Seeing him live at a Superstars taping was one of the highlights of my life. Rock/Austin is not the greatest rivalry of all time. I enjoyed the matches but the builds were nothing great. Wrestlemania 15 was all about Austin/Vince, Wrestlemania 17 had all that Debra crap (don't be fooled by the fantastic My Way video that makes this look ike the greatest thing ever) and Rock spent the run-in to Wrestlemania 19 messing around with Hurricane and having live concerts. As far as real rivalries go I preferred almost every other big one from the attitude era like Rock/HHH, Rock/Foley, HHH/Foley, Austin/HHH. This is actually something that often goes unacknowledged. And honestly, I don't even like their match at WMXV, I think it sucks a bag of dicks. They had great matches, mostly, but their angles were largely awful. Agree wholeheartedly with this, but admittedly in a lesser workrate time period even compared to the 90s Andre had to do less to get over. I thought Christian was solid, but that's it. I agree as a solo guy. I think he is one half of one of the greatest tag teams ever, but as a solo guy was largely mediocre. The exception was when Edge retired so Christian borrowed all of his heat - nothing wrong with that if the fans go with it, although of course they then squandered it by jobbing him out and turning him heel. I'm glad Brock Lesnar went over The Undertaker at Wrestlemania. Agreed. I think that despite how disappointing Brock's last couple of appearances have been, the good ones that we've got have been absolutely worth it. But then, and here's my sacrilegious opinion, with the exception of his 2001-2002 heel run and a couple of particular matches, I think Undertaker's complete shit. -The "Piggie James" angle was NOT inherently as bad as people claim. The Trish/Molly storyline or Lawler's comments on Vickie Guerrero were far worse than that (since at least Mickie James was the babyface being bullied by two bitchy heels, and not a heel being insulted by someone who's a face and someone you're supposed to inherently agree with.) Agreed wholeheartedly. The Molly and Vickie stuff was out of line. The Piggie James angle was heels talking to a babyface, and that eventually culminated in that babyface squashing the heel in a title match if I remember rightly.
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Post by fuzzywarble, squat cobbler on Aug 28, 2016 14:15:53 GMT -5
Owen Hart WASN'T the greatest wrestler of all time. I don't understand the big deal about Owen. I've never seen him do anything that made him particularly unique or special. When he died, everyone came out of the woodwork to proclaim how legendary he was. IMO he was alright, but I couldn't ever see him as a main eventer.
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Post by Main Eventer on Aug 28, 2016 14:17:15 GMT -5
WWE would not be any different if Brock Lesnar didn't come back.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Aug 28, 2016 15:46:46 GMT -5
I've seen bits and pieces of it, and it IS stupid, but in an "Ed Wood" kind of way. If I thought that was intentional, I'd love that. But what I'm pretty sure happened is that Matt and Jeff are being allowed to book themselves in storylines they probably dreamed up when they were teenagers, and it's just....awful. Yep. The Hardyz just aren't clever enough for Ed Wood style storytelling. One thought telling Edge to die in a car crash and later tease suicide would be a good idea, the other gave us Willow. If you enjoy it, fine, but don't try to paint it as something it's not. So because of two bad ideas they can't have good ideas? They have/had specific goals for Final Deletion/Broken Matt and reached every single one. Not your cup of tea, fine, you don't have to like it. But their artistic aims were very clear, and the build wholly delivered for what it was/is. Listen to Matt on Talk is Jericho or look at his social media presence on the matter. It's a success. And, I don't think we're correctly using the term "Ed Wood style storytelling" correctly here either. Wood was ambitious and passionate to an almost desperate degree, but technically inept and eager to crank up the exploitation as a means to an end. He didn't intend for his work to be as goofy as it came off. Meanwhile the Hardyz totally know what Final Deletion is.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Aug 28, 2016 15:47:18 GMT -5
There have been moon rocks in wrestling angles. Mike Davis, GWF. I saw it when it originally aired. I stand by my statement. You need to actually watch the Final Deletion to have an opinion on it. The whole thing.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Aug 28, 2016 15:50:32 GMT -5
Mike Davis, GWF. I saw it when it originally aired. I stand by my statement. You need to actually watch the Final Deletion to have an opinion on it. The whole thing. I really don't think I do. I believe I saw more than enough.
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Post by Frizzle Fry on Aug 28, 2016 15:50:53 GMT -5
puroresu is overrated.
Im not saying its bad, but its not the best wrestling in the world as some people say
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Aug 28, 2016 15:54:36 GMT -5
Yep. The Hardyz just aren't clever enough for Ed Wood style storytelling. One thought telling Edge to die in a car crash and later tease suicide would be a good idea, the other gave us Willow. If you enjoy it, fine, but don't try to paint it as something it's not. Right. All due respect to ChazRaps. I tend to agree with you more often than not, but to say that this is anything other than a really stupid angle, on a really large scale, is inaccurate. It's certainly not "required watching" or anything that's "changed the face of wrestling for good or ill". It's required watching because it's 1) got one of the biggest buzzes for any angle this year (sensationalist stupidity or not, it got people talking and legit tuning in, can't say it isn't a success) 2) actually pulled off being the first successful empty-arena-style match since Halftime Heat 3) through the full presentation, it was unlike anything we've seen on a wrestling show this century. It's perfectly set up, from Matt's reasoning for a camera crew, to the pacing, to the world it created in the follow-up. WWE already attempted duplicating it and, for all the production value and talent Vince employs, it fell far short on every level compared to what the Hardyz did. Something like The Final Deletion is hard to do, and they did it. Stupid as you may find talking to the spirit of a dilapidated boat, or a floating hologram, or a gardener as a beloved supporting character, is it really that much of a dumber thing to put on a wrestling show than an irish whip? Plus, the Hardyz created a universe where the logic of The Final Deletion has its own established storytelling structure. It's not just goofy-backyard-Russo. There's a method to the madness. Whether you like that method or not is truly subjective, but it'd be inaccurate to deny that there's a methodology that proved successful.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Aug 28, 2016 15:55:29 GMT -5
You need to actually watch the Final Deletion to have an opinion on it. The whole thing. I really don't think I do. I believe I saw more than enough. Well, you didn't. Don't want to watch it, fine, but you can't speak definitively about it so please refrain.
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Venti
Unicron
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Post by Venti on Aug 28, 2016 15:58:33 GMT -5
Final Deletion looks amusing enough to watch, but I can already tell people are overhyping the shit out of it. Like, it looks funny, but people are making it out to be the next Wrestlemania 17, or the next Andre vs Hogan. Anyway, another opinion I have, is that I never got the hype of Damien Sandow. Literally the only time I found him entertaining was as Mizdow. That was really good stuff. But people were calling for his intellectual savior gimmick to beat John Cena for the title.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Aug 28, 2016 15:59:55 GMT -5
It's just a big, dumb angle, man. Most of the "buzz" it generated amounted to "holy shit, this looks f***ing stupid". Don't try to pretend it deserves artistic credibility. It's two dudes getting methed out in their back yard and living out their little backyard wrestler fantasies. No more, no less.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Aug 28, 2016 16:00:33 GMT -5
Final Deletion looks amusing enough to watch, but I can already tell people are overhyping the shit out of it. Like, it looks funny, but people are making it out to be the next Wrestlemania 17, or the next Andre vs Hogan. I promise you, nobody thinks it's on that level. If anything, the zeal and exuberance just feels larger because nobody ever expected something that engaging on any level coming out of modern TNA.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Aug 28, 2016 16:02:18 GMT -5
Yep. The Hardyz just aren't clever enough for Ed Wood style storytelling. One thought telling Edge to die in a car crash and later tease suicide would be a good idea, the other gave us Willow. If you enjoy it, fine, but don't try to paint it as something it's not. So because of two bad ideas they can't have good ideas? They have/had specific goals for Final Deletion/Broken Matt and reached every single one. Not your cup of tea, fine, you don't have to like it. But their artistic aims were very clear, and the build wholly delivered for what it was/is. Listen to Matt on Talk is Jericho or look at his social media presence on the matter. It's a success. And, I don't think we're correctly using the term "Ed Wood style storytelling" correctly here either. Wood was ambitious and passionate to an almost desperate degree, but technically inept and eager to crank up the exploitation as a means to an end. He didn't intend for his work to be as goofy as it came off. Meanwhile the Hardyz totally know what Final Deletion is. Fair enough, I just think it and Matt are awful in just about every way possible. I only said it here because that's what the thread is for, I try to let people have their fun otherwise.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Aug 28, 2016 16:02:23 GMT -5
I really don't think I do. I believe I saw more than enough. Well, you didn't. Don't want to watch it, fine, but you can't speak definitively about it so please refrain. I will not. Seeing what I saw was more than enough to tell me that I have no interest or need to invest 17 minutes of my life watching something that I'm still going to think is completely stupid when it's done. They may have executed their idea perfectly. I'm sure Vince Russo did at some point. It may be something we've never seen in wrestling before. Someone dropping their trunks and shitting on the mat would be, too, but that's no reason to watch it, and I don't have to watch that to know I wouldn't enjoy it. People may be talking about it, but people talked about Katie Vick, too.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Aug 28, 2016 16:02:42 GMT -5
It's just a big, dumb angle, man. Most of the "buzz" it generated amounted to "holy shit, this looks f***ing stupid". Don't try to pretend it deserves artistic credibility. It's two dudes getting methed out in their back yard and living out their little backyard wrestler fantasies. No more, no less. Then how come it's managed to continue to be a success past the "little backyard wrestler fantasies?" There's a reason this worked and Willow, or the New Day/Wyatts emulation didn't. It never denied being a "big, dumb angle," it promoted itself as seriously trying to be the biggest, dumbest angle it could be and pulled it off. People are still watching. That makes it a success.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Aug 28, 2016 16:05:45 GMT -5
Well, you didn't. Don't want to watch it, fine, but you can't speak definitively about it so please refrain. I will not. Seeing what I saw was more than enough to tell me that I have no interest or need to invest 17 minutes of my life watching something that I'm still going to think is completely stupid when it's done. They may have executed their idea perfectly. I'm sure Vince Russo did at some point. It may be something we've never seen in wrestling before. Someone dropping their trunks and shitting on the mat would be, too, but that's no reason to watch it, and I don't have to watch that to know I wouldn't enjoy it. People may be talking about it, but people talked about Katie Vick, too. Katie Vick drove away viewers. Final Deletion continues to bring them in. You haven't seen it, you can't judge it. You "read a recap and saw some still shots." Imagine judging absolutely anything else in wrestling off of that alone, especially something that's become as big of a deal as Final Deletion. You're out of your element, Donny.
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Sicho100
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Post by Sicho100 on Aug 28, 2016 16:07:15 GMT -5
Wait, are there really people that think the Hardys aren't in on the joke with the Final Deletion? That this: is meant to be taken completely seriously? Hell, that a thing called "THE FINAL DELETION" is meant to be taken seriously? ...How?
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