魔界5号
Hank Scorpio
No. 1 FAN Poster You Want To Hug
Posts: 6,323
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Post by 魔界5号 on Sept 8, 2016 15:32:11 GMT -5
I'm one of Zack's bigger fans and have followed his career for a long time, and despite being a great technical wrestler, he has zero charisma and can't talk to save his life. It's just a fact. He has no gimmick or character. He just goes out there and wrestles. I don't mind because I get my main exposure to him in random different indies where nobody really has any character, but in WWE, it isn't going to cut it. Even in the CWC you've got guys with character. Kendrick is back and playing the grizzled veteran. Tyson Dux had the "last chance" angle. Gallagher is the gentleman. Gargano and Ciampa had the friendship/rivalry angle.
I guess what I'm saying is, I love Zack, but I can see why somebody would hate him because he is devoid of any semblance of character.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 15:37:11 GMT -5
Some of the logic in this thread is baffling. "You're complaining about how boring he is, so you care! He made you care!" No wonder TNA is pushing Mike Bennett to the moon, he's a master at boring people to death.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Sept 8, 2016 15:38:29 GMT -5
And as FR said, Jack came in with the same style as Zack but made it funny, added in a great underdog element, oozed charisma, and sold his little British ass off like a big British boss.
People seen ZSJ in that boring first round match and people were like "nah bro". Most said they'll give him another chance, but round 2 wasn't any better. Most here gave up. I like him, but the complete dislike/apathy/whatever you wanna classify it is entirely justifiable and understandable.
Then Jack comes in with the same style but a multitude of more tools on display and people were like "yeah bro".
Both dudes are great examples of "first impressions matter".
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Sept 8, 2016 15:41:02 GMT -5
And as FR said, Jack came in with the same style as Zack but made it funny, added in a great underdog element, oozed charisma, and sold his little British ass off like a big British boss. People seen ZSJ in that boring first round match and people were like "nah bro". Most said they'll give him another chance, but round 2 wasn't any better. Most here gave up. I like him, but the complete dislike/apathy/whatever you wanna classify it is entirely justifiable and understandable. Then Jack comes in with the same style but a multitude of more tools on display and people were like "yeah bro". Both dudes are great examples of "first impressions matter". Also a little touch, Jack uses all the innovative technical stuff, but he doesn't need it to get over. He was able to use a dropkick as a finisher in 2016 and not one person complained about it, now that is skill.
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4real
Wade Wilson
Posts: 27,838
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Post by 4real on Sept 8, 2016 15:42:23 GMT -5
I've enjoyed all his matches in the tournament and enjoy his style but there does seem to be something missing. His look is fine I think, charisma wise yeah it's hard to argue he lacks it. I just need to be given a reason to care other than he's British so I should cheer for him because he is 'one of us'. That's what it feels like to me a bit atm.
And no more corny lines about Harry Potter ever again.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Sept 8, 2016 15:46:19 GMT -5
And as FR said, Jack came in with the same style as Zack but made it funny, added in a great underdog element, oozed charisma, and sold his little English ass off like a big English boss. People seen ZSJ in that boring first round match and people were like "nah bro". Most said they'll give him another chance, but round 2 wasn't any better. Most here gave up. I like him, but the complete dislike/apathy/whatever you wanna classify it is entirely justifiable and understandable. Then Jack comes in with the same style but a multitude of more tools on display and people were like "yeah bro". Both dudes are great examples of "first impressions matter". Also a little touch, Jack uses all the innovative technical stuff, but he doesn't need it to get over. He was able to use a dropkick as a finisher in 2016 and not one person complained about it, now that is skill. Cool thing about that final dropkick in the first round... So I'm a kayfabe dad and my kids and I watch together. Now I go all "didn't get all of that" "work the arm" "cut the ring in half" type analysis with them. A bit before the finish he was doing some dropkicks that had no effect. Told the kids well he's too small for that gotta find another way to hurt the guy, his drop kicks aren't exactly Okada's. So we established his airborne game was shit blah blah blah WTF WAS THAT THAT'S ONE OF THE MOST INCREDIBLE DROPKICKS I'VE EVER SEEN HOLY f***ING HELL THIS GUY WON?! is pretty much how my yelling with them went. Now if he was telling that story on purpose or not that's how it played in my house and with that one dropkick SOLD us all here on him. Dude tried until he got it "right" and when it hit, it hit like a tank.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Sept 8, 2016 16:00:45 GMT -5
Much like I'm tickled by the idea of "The guy that no one cares about, yet can't stop discussing". Come on, man, you've got to know that's the biggest fallacy imaginable, right? That when people say they don't care about him, they mean in the context of his matches, where he is less expressive than Dixie Carter. He's been one of the most hyped and pushed talents in the tournament, it's not "being worked" to think he's been disappointing at it. And if it is, then what's even the benefit of "working" people? If his meta gimmick is being unexciting, where's the money in that? If it's a shortcoming of him as a talent then okay fine, very few wrestlers are perfect 10s across the board. But if it were a gimmick, it'd be a shit gimmick, because you can't tell stories with it, and there's no converted-into-money heat in being "that guy who won't move his face".
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Big Poppa Pumpkin
Dennis Stamp
I'll be in the back polishing............ my belt.
Posts: 4,987
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Post by Big Poppa Pumpkin on Sept 8, 2016 16:05:35 GMT -5
I think he's pretty good, not near the best guy in the tournament but oh well.
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Post by chronocross on Sept 8, 2016 16:06:55 GMT -5
I tried getting into his match a few weeks back, just didn't do it for me.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Sept 8, 2016 16:31:38 GMT -5
He's definitely good at the technical aspect of wrestling, and in fact I thought the match with Gulak was damn good. But that is enough of an acquired taste for fans as it is, and the "stoic technical wizard" thing just does not translate to the more expressive world that is WWE... Unless you are working a literal cyborg or robot gimmick, and all indications are that he isn't.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Sept 8, 2016 16:36:00 GMT -5
I don't know if I've ever been more disappointed in a guy who had so much hype. Sure, yeah, he knows a lot of holds. Great. He apparently cares about his matches as much as I do (which is to say, not at all). He couldn't sell booze to the 1998 version of Scott Hall. Wake me up when he stops being a blank-faced, chicken-legged cure for insomnia. Also : What kind of slapnuts thinks "Junior" actually sounds cool enough to make it part of their name when there's no "Senior" to begin with? Wait a minute, stop the thread. Did you just use slapnuts in a sentence? Has Jeff Jarrett been a furry this whole time?
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AFN: Judge Shred
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wanted to change his doohicky.
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Sept 8, 2016 16:40:28 GMT -5
And as FR said, Jack came in with the same style as Zack but made it funny, added in a great underdog element, oozed charisma, and sold his little British ass off like a big British boss. People seen ZSJ in that boring first round match and people were like "nah bro". Most said they'll give him another chance, but round 2 wasn't any better. Most here gave up. I like him, but the complete dislike/apathy/whatever you wanna classify it is entirely justifiable and understandable. Then Jack comes in with the same style but a multitude of more tools on display and people were like "yeah bro". Both dudes are great examples of "first impressions matter". The second round match was better, a lot better, but that is because Gulak worked his ass off harder than damn near anyone I have seen. He gave and gave and gave and Zack never returned the favor. Dude is an exhibitionist, not a sports entertainer. You could put him out there with a dummy made of pool noodles and it'd be damn near the same.
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Pushed to the Moon
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Tony Schiavone in Disguise
Working myself into a shoot
Posts: 15,819
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Sept 8, 2016 16:58:39 GMT -5
Nah, dude's awesome. Great, unique style, and a "I'm so good, it's literally boring me to stretch you into a pretzel" gimmick that is apparently working EVERYONE here, so...yeah, dude's brilliant. He looks just as bored when other people are doing moves to him too. So nothing hurts him and he puts no effort into hurting people either? Some of his moves are cool but if he's looking emotionless on purpose then it's just bizarre. I don't hate him or anything though.
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Post by mrtumoursmisery on Sept 8, 2016 17:18:49 GMT -5
Gallagher was good, but Gulak was my favorite technical wrestler/grappler of the tournament.
Sabre hasn't won me over yet. His first match sucked, and I was ready to write him off. His second match, against Gulak, was great, but that might've been because the match highlighted Gulak rather than Sabre. Sabre's third match, against Dar, was decent, even exciting at times.
So, I'm on the fence when it comes to Sabre. As many others have pointed out, his selling, particularly of his opponent's offense, is distracting at times. I don't accept for a second that it's his gimmick. It's his job to sell his opponent's offense; that's how pro wrestlers get us to believe that all of their phony bologna pro wrestling moves actually hurt. But, we too often get a vacant expression from Sabre. There just seems to be an emotional disconnect, there.
Personally, I don't think that he seems polished enough for the technical wrestling wizard gimmick. Some of his transitions from hold to hold are clunky. And, sometimes his opponent has to wait motionlessly and allow him to apply a convoluted maneuver. It's a bit hokey. And, okay, he's a technical wrestler and all of that, but what's his strategy in any given match? He seems to apply a multitude of holds with no end game in mind. What's he working toward?
But, he was part of one great match and another decent match, so I can't write him off yet.
Gulak was the shit, though.
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Johnny
Don Corleone
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Posts: 1,671
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Post by Johnny on Sept 8, 2016 17:40:00 GMT -5
I enjoyed his last 2 matches but he does need to tell a story. If he wrestled like that on TV for 2 months I'd be bored to tears with him.
It's frustrating as he's clearly one of the most talented guys in the CWC. It's like watching a robot wrestle.
I'm hoping he's saving something for the final.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Sept 8, 2016 17:54:06 GMT -5
The first match was a squash basically but I enjoyed it.
The second match I LOVED, because it came across like Gulak was going 'you magnificent bastard I read your book!' And Sabre only just beat him.
The Dar match was actually my favourite one from Dar so far, but that ain't saying shit.
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Waffel113
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Ain't no Rap Mobile with his Waffels
Posts: 19,020
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Post by Waffel113 on Sept 8, 2016 18:20:43 GMT -5
Here's my $0.02 on the matter. I like him (to an extent), and he's capable of putting on great matches. His match against Kyle O'Reilly at BOLA '14 is one of my favorites. The problem, though, is just what many before me have said: he doesn't really sell me on anything. Case in point: his match with Dar. On the one hand, the finish was an example of "holy shit, he can just do that and make it look so easy?" that for sure has some value. On the other, it completely ignored how his leg was being worked on the entire match. If his leg was hurt and his arm was hurt and the match had to end just like that, then either don't work his leg over the entire match or don't work his arm in the last five minutes or so (though I will say he was doing a good job selling his leg prior to the finish).
And not to cast aspersions on his personality (I swear I'm not, this actually happened), but like five minutes after his match finished I fell asleep. I don't know whether the match was a contributing factor, but I'm not saying it wasn't.
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Post by AwamoriRock on Sept 8, 2016 18:37:41 GMT -5
I want him to bulk up more and abandon the whole "put guy in a hold in middle of ring and then just abruptly abandon it".
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Post by Yacht Persona on Sept 8, 2016 18:38:48 GMT -5
What he needs is a gimmick, like a wrestling milkman, delivering gallons of technical ability!
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Sept 8, 2016 18:43:26 GMT -5
What he needs is a gimmick, like a wrestling milkman, delivering gallons of technical ability! Only if it's a Pat Mustard gimmick and they use the music:
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