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Post by Starshine on Sept 20, 2016 0:54:28 GMT -5
No reaching here. This isn't close to the Tensai example, because unlike Tensai they liked Reigns before his monster push took off. Then they realised they didn't like him at the top, and then the continuous pushing turned a lot of them off him all together. If he was moving ratings, or a butt load of merchandise, or had a notable section of the audience vocally supporting him it would be different, and closer to a Cena comparison. But he's just a guy who the average fan has no real connection with, who's being shoved into the spotlight regardless of what that fan says. It's naturally going to create friction and anger. Also not everyone in the crowd is going to think of sitting in stoic silence. A lot of them will also get caught up in the atmosphere. It's easy to not give a shit about say, a Curtis Axel/Bo Dallas match because they're short, mean nothing, and are usually placed in a part of the card where people aren't going to react that well. Reigns is often in, or around, the main event. He's also wrestling guys who are over. There's almost always going to be some sort of reaction for his matches. But you forgot, didnt Joey Styles said the reason Vince is behind 100% on Roman is "he is the most popular with moms and kids, the number one audience of RAW"? and with that thinking he will keep pushing him on main events so the moms and kids can cheer him? Well that would be great if they were cheering him. And if they are, there's not a whole lot of them buying tickets for the shows.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2016 0:56:13 GMT -5
No reaching here. This isn't close to the Tensai example, because unlike Tensai they liked Reigns before his monster push took off. Then they realised they didn't like him at the top, and then the continuous pushing turned a lot of them off him all together. If he was moving ratings, or a butt load of merchandise, or had a notable section of the audience vocally supporting him it would be different, and closer to a Cena comparison. But he's just a guy who the average fan has no real connection with, who's being shoved into the spotlight regardless of what that fan says. It's naturally going to create friction and anger. Also not everyone in the crowd is going to think of sitting in stoic silence. A lot of them will also get caught up in the atmosphere. It's easy to not give a shit about say, a Curtis Axel/Bo Dallas match because they're short, mean nothing, and are usually placed in a part of the card where people aren't going to react that well. Reigns is often in, or around, the main event. He's also wrestling guys who are over. There's almost always going to be some sort of reaction for his matches. But you forgot, didnt Joey Styles said the reason Vince is behind 100% on Roman is "he is the most popular with moms and kids, the number one audience of RAW"? and with that thinking he will keep pushing him on main events so the moms and kids can cheer him? That's probably the excuse they use for shareholders but honestly, outside of one market survey saying he's the marketable that really means nothing because you get the results you want with a survey and if he were actually marketable he would be having... some measure of some effect on business in some way and he isn't, there doesn't seem to be any truth to that and all. And even if so, it's stupid, because in theory they should be trying to hook the 18-35 male demographic because it's what TV networks must care about, or they should be trying to make kids lifelong fans which seems very unlikely with the super-repetitive booking and constant years-on-end harping about business ethnics as a central plot point, or they should be catering to their existing fans, who are largely in their 40s. Just either way any audience WWE should actually be prioritizing is being completely ignored.
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Post by Yacht Persona on Sept 20, 2016 1:03:31 GMT -5
But you forgot, didnt Joey Styles said the reason Vince is behind 100% on Roman is "he is the most popular with moms and kids, the number one audience of RAW"? and with that thinking he will keep pushing him on main events so the moms and kids can cheer him? That's probably the excuse they use for shareholders but honestly, outside of one market survey saying he's the marketable that really means nothing because you get the results you want with a survey and if he were actually marketable he would be having... some measure of some effect on business in some way and he isn't, there doesn't seem to be any truth to that and all. And even if so, it's stupid, because in theory they should be trying to hook the 18-35 male demographic because it's what TV networks must care about, or they should be trying to make kids lifelong fans which seems very unlikely with the super-repetitive booking and constant years-on-end harping about business ethnics as a central plot point, or they should be catering to their existing fans, who are largely in their 40s. Just either way any audience WWE should actually be prioritizing is being completely ignored. The fact that the Ambrose house shows with the supposed "B-team" were drawing more than the Reigns "A-team" shows proves their narrative about Roman is a bunch of malarkey.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Sept 20, 2016 1:48:46 GMT -5
The thing is a lot of fans complain and still watch. Here's what I think is happening in terms of Roman Reigns. Remember how hated Cena was at one point? He was straight up booed at every event or had mixed reactions, Vince kept pushing him and shoving him down the fans throats until they eventually gave up and found something else.
I think the same thing is happening now. Vince knows the fans absolutely hate the direction of Roman and rather than listen to the fans, he becomes stubborn, bitter, and literally gives them the middle finger and continues his direction as a way to spite the fans.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2016 1:54:34 GMT -5
The thing is a lot of fans complain and still watch. And a lot of fans stop watching. They've lost 20% of their audience in the past year and even the Rate the Raw threads the, "Didn't watch," option is getting more and more votes.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Sept 20, 2016 1:57:50 GMT -5
The thing is a lot of fans complain and still watch. And a lot of fans stop watching. They've lost 20% of their audience in the past year and even the Rate the Raw threads the, "Didn't watch," option is getting more and more votes. Fans need to stop watching, stop buying the merchandise, cancel their subscription to the Network, and continue that trend in order for Vince to pay attention. Also I'd like to think they're not attending the live shows either. Knowing Vince, it's a guarantee(no pun intended) that he's thinking "Oh, they hate Roman? Well, they're talking about him which means they're watching the show." This is why we as wrestling fans need a legitimate federation to compete with Vince and give him something to fear.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by The Ichi on Sept 20, 2016 2:06:00 GMT -5
They're trying to catch the same lightning in a bottle they caught with Cena by making him this huge polarising figure with the crowd.
What they're failing to realise is that Cena had HUGE fan support with the younger audience and sold merch out the wazoo. Reigns doesn't have that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2016 2:46:46 GMT -5
They're trying to catch the same lightning in a bottle they caught with Cena by making him this huge polarising figure with the crowd. What they're failing to realise is that Cena had HUGE fan support with the younger audience and sold merch out the wazoo. Reigns doesn't have that. Also honestly I'm still convinced Cena's time on top did more harm than good. There'd probably be a bit less trepidation with Reigns if we hadn't gone through a decade of Cena at the helm and thus have the looming threat of the same with him, and I don't think it's remotely a coincidence that during Cena's time on top attendance, PPV buyrates, and ratings steadily dropped for years.
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Post by cabbageboy on Sept 20, 2016 5:37:02 GMT -5
Yeah with Cena it is more of a slow, steady decline over a decade. With Reigns though this is cratering ratings at an alarming rate. A couple of years ago Raw was doing about 3 million viewers on average, then with this Reigns incessant push they are down to about 2.65 million this year. That said, I think Rollins' terrible title run last year had quite a bit to do with the ratings bombing as well, since he was booked terribly beyond belief and fans simply had enough after that Jon Stewart crap at SS.
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Post by dreidemy on Sept 20, 2016 5:50:39 GMT -5
I'm a simple man
I saw Reigns, Mick & Steph opening Raw and immediately turned off Raw and went to bed
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Sept 20, 2016 6:05:31 GMT -5
Reigns would ruin Steve "Mongo" McMichael. This gif is like a really strange metaphorical performance art piece about overcoming your demons despite their size. At least Mongo was usually fascinatingly bad. Reigns is sound in the ring and on the mic, but how he's being presented inspires a bunch of "mehs" from me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2016 6:09:17 GMT -5
Yeah with Cena it is more of a slow, steady decline over a decade. With Reigns though this is cratering ratings at an alarming rate. A couple of years ago Raw was doing about 3 million viewers on average, then with this Reigns incessant push they are down to about 2.65 million this year. That said, I think Rollins' terrible title run last year had quite a bit to do with the ratings bombing as well, since he was booked terribly beyond belief and fans simply had enough after that Jon Stewart crap at SS. Of course, something else that needs to be kept in mind on the ratings thing is WWE is a major beneficiary of circumstances at the moment. Any other show losing 20% of their viewers in a year would have the network wanting heads on a platter and major change-ups, but Raw benefits from its value not being in advertiser money but in shoring up the network ads, so so long as it still gets numbers USA doesn't especially need to care (though they obviously do or they wouldn't have forced the brand split on them), and it benefits from the fact USA doesn't have time to deal with them right now because the network as a whole is in a slump and nothing else getting anywhere close to Raw numbers. If it had to compete with Monk or earlier-seasons Psych still existing Raw would be getting its ass kicked and would be seen as far more expendable. Really one hot streak is all it'll take for USA to get fed up.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Sept 20, 2016 7:14:26 GMT -5
And a lot of fans stop watching. They've lost 20% of their audience in the past year and even the Rate the Raw threads the, "Didn't watch," option is getting more and more votes. Fans need to stop watching, stop buying the merchandise, cancel their subscription to the Network, and continue that trend in order for Vince to pay attention. Also I'd like to think they're not attending the live shows either. Knowing Vince, it's a guarantee(no pun intended) that he's thinking "Oh, they hate Roman? Well, they're talking about him which means they're watching the show." This is why we as wrestling fans need a legitimate federation to compete with Vince and give him something to fear. I did. I cancelled after Mania, and now I don't watch Raw or Smackdown on anything that shows viewing figures to them.
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Post by cabbageboy on Sept 20, 2016 7:24:54 GMT -5
I forgot to mention the actual booking of last night. I knew Reigns was winning, but I couldn't figure out WHY he would win if Owens is Universal champion and main eventing the PPV. Rollins/Rusev being a double countout? Fine. Neither guy could afford the loss. But really, on what planet do you take a guy challenging for the U.S. title at a PPV and put him over the world (or Universal) champion in a cage match a week before a PPV? I've never seen something like this before, where the U.S. title is clearly more important than the actual top belt.
Has it occurred to WWE that maybe no one from The Shield is really a consistent singles main eventer? I compared them to the Freebirds a while back, noting that they were certainly a 6 man main event combo but would you really main event any of them as singles guys on a regular basis? The only Shield member that is anything close to a total package is Rollins, since Reigns is too dull on the mic (and iffy at times in the ring), while Ambrose is solid on the mic but sometimes looks slow and lethargic in the ring. Rollins has become a very good promo and he's a great wrestler when he isn't hurting people, but he's been booked so horribly ever since winning the title in 2015 that the damage has been done.
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canal
Samurai Cop
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Post by canal on Sept 20, 2016 7:32:53 GMT -5
The best thing I was hoping for with the brand split was "at least Roman Reigns will be confined to one show."
Smackdown is surprisingly good, but if Roman Reigns was on Smackdown, it wouldn't be.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Sept 20, 2016 7:41:39 GMT -5
And a lot of fans stop watching. They've lost 20% of their audience in the past year and even the Rate the Raw threads the, "Didn't watch," option is getting more and more votes. Fans need to stop watching, stop buying the merchandise, cancel their subscription to the Network, and continue that trend in order for Vince to pay attention. Also I'd like to think they're not attending the live shows either. I don't know about merch numbers and Network subscriptions, but I can definitely tell you house show attendance has seen better days. www.pwmania.com/low-attendance-at-raw-live-event-photos-top-10-wwe-low-blows-video-jim-cornette-birthday
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Brood Lone Wolf Funker
Ozymandius
Got fined anyway. Possibly a Moose
James Franco is the white Donald Glover
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Post by Brood Lone Wolf Funker on Sept 20, 2016 7:41:40 GMT -5
It's Anoai'ing is what it is
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canal
Samurai Cop
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Post by canal on Sept 20, 2016 7:46:29 GMT -5
He probably is marketable. The rest of it's up to the actual marketing.
Right now, he's booked like a top babyface, but he comes out to boos and just walks slowly and looks sleepy and mad, with BELIEVE THAT in bold letters behind him and this crappy, hard to read logo that appears to be a nail with spider legs.
MARKETING!
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trollrogue
Hank Scorpio
Nashville City of Music!!
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Post by trollrogue on Sept 20, 2016 8:41:04 GMT -5
How would a Shield reunion even work? Dean's the top face of SmackDown, they can't just send him to Raw. Roman's entrance theme is still the Shield theme. Not gonna be hard. And again, with Slater's gimmick of them being free agents (say Rollins and Reigns get pissed at the Authority for screwing with their careers so much they don't 'resign' their contracts) and Dean walks on SDLive's exclusive contract because he isn't given the 1-on-1 against AJ that Shane promised him in the middle of the ring last SDLive. Bam. Shield reunion and they can attack people on both shows (hell make them run-in on NXT again, too). That's probably the excuse they use for shareholders but honestly, outside of one market survey saying he's the marketable that really means nothing because you get the results you want with a survey and if he were actually marketable he would be having... some measure of some effect on business in some way and he isn't, there doesn't seem to be any truth to that and all. And even if so, it's stupid, because in theory they should be trying to hook the 18-35 male demographic because it's what TV networks must care about, or they should be trying to make kids lifelong fans which seems very unlikely with the super-repetitive booking and constant years-on-end harping about business ethnics as a central plot point, or they should be catering to their existing fans, who are largely in their 40s. Just either way any audience WWE should actually be prioritizing is being completely ignored. Say what you want about certain segments of the crowd never accepting Roman. Roman Reigns was the 2014 Superstar of the Year. The Shield was the 2014 Faction of the Year. Dean Ambrose was the 2014 Breakout Star of the Year. Rollins double-crossing the Shield was the 2014 Double-Cross of the Year. The Shield made money for the company, and Roman was the epicentre of the success.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
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Post by Dub H on Sept 20, 2016 8:49:40 GMT -5
How would a Shield reunion even work? Dean's the top face of SmackDown, they can't just send him to Raw. Roman's entrance theme is still the Shield theme. Not gonna be hard. And again, with Slater's gimmick of them being free agents (say Rollins and Reigns get pissed at the Authority for screwing with their careers so much they don't 'resign' their contracts) and Dean walks on SDLive's exclusive contract because he isn't given the 1-on-1 against AJ that Shane promised him in the middle of the ring last SDLive. Bam. Shield reunion and they can attack people on both shows (hell make them run-in on NXT again, too). That's probably the excuse they use for shareholders but honestly, outside of one market survey saying he's the marketable that really means nothing because you get the results you want with a survey and if he were actually marketable he would be having... some measure of some effect on business in some way and he isn't, there doesn't seem to be any truth to that and all. And even if so, it's stupid, because in theory they should be trying to hook the 18-35 male demographic because it's what TV networks must care about, or they should be trying to make kids lifelong fans which seems very unlikely with the super-repetitive booking and constant years-on-end harping about business ethnics as a central plot point, or they should be catering to their existing fans, who are largely in their 40s. Just either way any audience WWE should actually be prioritizing is being completely ignored. Say what you want about certain segments of the crowd never accepting Roman. Roman Reigns was the 2014 Superstar of the Year. The Shield was the 2014 Faction of the Year. Dean Ambrose was the 2014 Breakout Star of the Year. Rollins double-crossing the Shield was the 2014 Double-Cross of the Year. The Shield made money for the company, and Roman was the epicentre of the success. slammys can be. A bunch of boleign. And reigns was hardly the epicentre. Every man played a big role, but reigns was always the one in the side lines being groomed. He got the achievements and was the big exclamation point but Ambrose was the mouthpiece and the one that for big part leaded the way . And Rollins even had the storyline about him being he glue that kept it together , plus being the one that risked his body for the shield in most matches. OFf course it wouldn't be The Shield without Reigns. But not the epicentre
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