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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 15, 2017 13:01:24 GMT -5
Everything is wrong with the DC films.
Acting, tone, direction, production design, cinematography etc....
If they have a plan, it's a bad one.
My guess is that WB just don't give a shit. They know that if they can simply slap a movie together, and give it a well known brand name, it'll make enough to be profitable, even if they get nowhere near Marvel/Disney.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jan 15, 2017 13:05:22 GMT -5
Everything is wrong with the DC films. Acting, tone, direction, production design, cinematography etc.... If they have a plan, it's a bad one. My guess is that WB just don't give a shit. They know that if they can simply slap a movie together, and give it a well known brand name, it'll make enough to be profitable, even if they get nowhere near Marvel/Disney. Only bad thing about the acting was Jesse Eisenberg. I will say just to be fair and balance it out. The plot of Suicide Squad didn't make much sense, especially when the CIA agent asks "If Superman turns evil, rips off the roof of the White House, and takes the President. Who will be able to stop him?" So you'll send a bunch of no superpowered villains who don't stand a chance against him? Only one out of them who could do any real damage to him is Enchantress. Deadshot, Harley, Killer Croc, Boomerang, and Katana all are dead within seconds.
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Jan 15, 2017 13:07:47 GMT -5
Reboot is imminent.
Few things here:
- I thought for a while it might be the grandiose love for Marvel that was hurting the DCCU. Not true. Because despite MOS not being that bad (nor that great), the first 4 Marvel flicks focusing on the separate heroes were all stand alone. And they shitcanned Whedon and brought in the far superior Russo Brothers. Snyder should of left BVS to someone else.
- it's ok for films to be "dark", but I think DC has pushed that too far to juxtapose Marvels usual light hearted nature. f*** THAT! Do what Marvel does and go for the tone to give integrity to your characters.
- The Wonder Woman trailer looked like shit to me. Again, too bleak. And I give zero f***s about WW but watched the animated film origin and it told a great story, so again, it's all about who's in charge of the thing.
- Justice League trailer looked like "LOOK GUYS WE CAN DO FAN SERVICE TOO! Funny!" But with all other reports coming out of it, it's gonna be a mess and more of the same we got with BVS.
- if WW and JL fail, Reboot. That's it. I liked Cavill, I loved Affleck but, nope, sorry. Focus on stand alone. Do a new Green Lantern movie, do a Nightwing movie, do a Flash movie and for the love of God, re-cast, because that kid is annoying.
I'll wait for WW and JL but I feel the current DCCU is going to take the ASM route and end abruptly and be forgotten in time like tears in the rain.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 13:10:20 GMT -5
I think the problem with the Snyder-verse is that it couldn't nail the tone of its source material. You can get away with Batman being "dark" and "edgy", but not the rest of the Justice League. They really should have gone back and looked at the original Christopher Reeve movies to get a feel for Superman.
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Jiren
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Post by Jiren on Jan 15, 2017 13:14:20 GMT -5
Reboot is imminent. Few things here: - I thought for a while it might be the grandiose love for Marvel that was hurting the DCCU. Not true. Because despite MOS not being that bad (nor that great), the first 4 Marvel flicks focusing on the separate heroes were all stand alone. And they shitcanned Whedon and brought in the far superior Russo Brothers. Snyder should of left BVS to someone else. - it's ok for films to be "dark", but I think DC has pushed that too far to juxtapose Marvels usual light hearted nature. f*** THAT! Do what Marvel does and go for the tone to give integrity to your characters. - The Wonder Woman trailer looked like shit to me. Again, too bleak. And I give zero f***s about WW but watched the animated film origin and it told a great story, so again, it's all about who's in charge of the thing. - Justice League trailer looked like "LOOK GUYS WE CAN DO FAN SERVICE TOO! Funny!" But with all other reports coming out of it, it's gonna be a mess and more of the same we got with BVS. - if WW and JL fail, Reboot. That's it. I liked Cavill, I loved Affleck but, nope, sorry. Focus on stand alone. Do a new Green Lantern movie, do a Nightwing movie, do a Flash movie and for the love of God, re-cast, because that kid is annoying. I'll wait for WW and JL but I feel the current DCCU is going to take the ASM route and end abruptly and be forgotten in time like tears in the rain. Oh and for the love of god drop Goyer And like I said earlier DC/WB releasing a cut to ribbons version in theaters but releasing the full version on home media, not once but twice is gonna bite em in the arse.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 13:22:22 GMT -5
It'd help if DC would take their time and try to organically grow their universe instead of just going, "Cram in all the things!" with it like they're doing. Marvel didn't make Iron Man, then in Incredible Hulk suddenly have Hulk and Iron Man already fighting then teaming up while along the way working in Captain America (well, that deleted scene, but barely), Thor, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Loki, and three or four other people all at once, and they didn't go from Incredible Hulk immediately to Guardians of the Galaxy. DC wants to copy all the things they've done without realizing WHY Marvel took their time about it and spent a few years laying the groundwork for Avengers before bringing it all together.
Plus what does the ending of Batman vs. Superman even accomplish? Superman's not dead. Even without Justice League no one would buy that he's dead. Why other than just because, "The Dark Knight made money," should the movie end on a bittersweet note implying he is? That ending alone is kind of a demonstration of the tonal problems with these things that are supposedly popcorn movie fluff, and it shows the general lock of foresight and thought with these things that absolutely no attempt is made to explain even in the most transparent of ways why Diana couldn't have been the one to kill Doomsday.
Of course even getting beyond that there's just the fact that all the DC movies thus far have been just plain bad. I do think each has been better than the last, but I also even in the theater was thinking if I ever watch Suicide Squad again I'll hate it a lot more than I did the first time.
I just hope Justice League and Wonder Woman don't have as blatant of a, "Here's where we did reshoots," moment as that part where for absolutely no reason other than Will Smith was busy Deadshot puts his mask on for one pointless fight scene then takes it off immediately after. Things like that just make the movie feel like complete amateur hour.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jan 15, 2017 13:30:32 GMT -5
Speaking as a long time fan of both the Marvel and DC characters, as of late I've found myself emphasizing more with the characters in Disney's Marvel films than I have Warner's/DC's. That's been the fundamental difference for me, not so much "lighthearted vs. dark". I don't want the DCCU to be upbeat so much as I want it to be good.
If they want to put a different spin on these characters, I'm open to it. I've never been that strict on producers "staying true" to the comics personally. Just give me an entertaining movie with characters I can root for, and I'm happy.
But let's say Dawn of Justice starred completely original characters, doing the same things Batman and Superman did. I still wouldn't enjoy it. I wasn't really thinking "that's not MY Superman and Batman!", I was thinking "I really don't like either one of these guys, they don't feel very heroic or noble at all."
Now with something like Age of Ultron, I'll admit that's not a perfect movie at all. But I liked that a lot more because I just felt more sympathy for the heroes. It's essentially about the Avengers desperately trying to clean up a mess they made. And even with that, I liked the bond they had with each other, and they all felt committed to their duty protecting the innocent. There wasn't any defeatist crap like "no one stays good in this world."
Different strokes I guess, and I really want DC to have a successful movie universe. But I don't think there's been enough "heart" in their recent films.
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Sephiroth
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Post by Sephiroth on Jan 15, 2017 14:41:33 GMT -5
I feel like D.C. is also suffering from the same problem the X Men franchise is; with every subsequent film they try to make it bigger and bigger and cram more and more characters into it. It just gets exhausting really fast. Especially considering how they seemed to initially set the stage for more of a slow build up with Man of Steel, only to turn Dawn of Justice into an utter cluster. X Men and Avengers are starting to feel a bit crowded, but in both cases it took roughly a decade and half a dozen films. D.C. got to this point in less than five years with only two or three.
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Shai
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Post by Shai on Jan 15, 2017 15:07:01 GMT -5
I feel like D.C. is also suffering from the same problem the X Men franchise is; with every subsequent film they try to make it bigger and bigger and cram more and more characters into it. It just gets exhausting really fast. Especially considering how they seemed to initially set the stage for more of a slow build up with Man of Steel, only to turn Dawn of Justice into an utter cluster. X Men and Avengers are starting to feel a bit crowded, but in both cases it took roughly a decade and half a dozen films. D.C. got to this point in less than five years with only two or three. And even though the MCU is crowded I still have complete faith that the Russos can do Infinity War which by it's nature will have every hero we've already met in the movies plus people from the shows and proberly intro new people without it being a clusterf***. Warner Brothers failure with the DCEU lies with them trying to do in 3 movies what Marvel did in 14.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 15:37:39 GMT -5
F***!!!!!! This DCEU thing isn't gonna work out is it? Though I wonder how certain people are gonna blame this on Marvel or say that superhero movies have "jumped the shark" and that's why this is happening. Though this begs to ask the question. Why can Marvel make 10 billion dollars off this and DC can't even get their franchise off the ground? In the past, I used the relatability aspect as an argument. Today, its execution. Yeah, you walk a fine line when it comes to loyalty to the lore, and we do have the two extremes of being too strict towards the story (Amazing Spider-Man 2) & those that said "f*** you" to anything from the story (Catwoman, the 2015 Fantastic Four film). However, characters like Batman & Superman need to be close to their stories. And, the Snyder films have been grimderp because they want to emulate the Dark Knight trilogy.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Jan 15, 2017 15:46:26 GMT -5
Scrap it, redo it in five years.
Don't hire edgelord douchebags like Zack Snyder. He's garbage. His wife is garbage. Let them go deconstruct rocks. Publicly apologize for ever letting these con artists touch something as amazing as DC Comics.
Don't hire David S. Goyer. He's garbage.
Don't do things differently from Marvel because "WE HAVE TO BE DIFFERENT! WE WANT AVENGERS MONEY NOW!" Do it right.
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Shai
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Post by Shai on Jan 15, 2017 16:03:03 GMT -5
Scrap it, redo it in five years. Don't hire edgelord douchebags like Zack Snyder. He's garbage. His wife is garbage. Let them go deconstruct rocks. Publicly apologize for ever letting these con artists touch something as amazing as DC Comics. Don't hire David S. Goyer. He's garbage. Don't do things differently from Marvel because "WE HAVE TO BE DIFFERENT! WE WANT AVENGERS MONEY NOW!" Do it right. I agree with this wholeheartedly. What they've done to DC is a goddamn travesty.
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Mackenzie Gorn
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Post by Mackenzie Gorn on Jan 15, 2017 16:11:47 GMT -5
Naw this is just Marvel buying off critics to poo poo on this poor little original idea.
Also guys Superhero movie bubble? Totally gonna burst.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Jan 15, 2017 16:12:54 GMT -5
Naw this is just Marvel buying off critics to poo poo on this poor little original idea. Also guys Superhero movie bubble? Totally gonna burst. BvS was a perfect movie! It's just too deep for those Marvel loving babies!
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 15, 2017 16:29:53 GMT -5
I might see it, but after BvS and Suicide Squad, I really don't know how good any upcoming DC movies will be. I know a lot of people who liked Suicide Squad a lot, but I mostly thought it was just average at best. However, this doesn't seem too good for this, but in the end, my opinion of the final product will be the only one that matters to me. I liked Suicide Squad but it was all over the place. Yeah, even the majority of people that love suicide squad admit it that it was a mess of a movie. Why can Marvel make 10 billion dollars off this and DC can't even get their franchise off the ground? Because they are doing it in the most Ass Backwards way... and then Wb/DC making really ass backwards choices about who to direct and write their movies... not to mention them assuming that the Nolan Batman movies worked because they were dark and gritty therefore all of their movies should have that feel despite the fact that Batman is not the same as Superman or Wonder Woman. edit: and no I don't need the DC movies to be the snarky light hearted romps that Marvel movies generally are... but stay true to the heart of the damned characters would be a start. Superman is the symbol of hope and a massive Boy scout... HE WOULD NOT GIVE UP ON HUMANITY LIKE HE DID IN DAWN OF JUSTICE. The world would be shit but he'd still try and be the model for people to aspire too. and don't tell me that style of hero is passe when Marvel could make Captain America who is the same damned character and make him the central character to one of their best movies. My guess is that WB just don't give a shit. They know that if they can simply slap a movie together, and give it a well known brand name, it'll make enough to be profitable, even if they get nowhere near Marvel/Disney. Oh they care. That's why they panicked and promoted Geoff Johns ahead of Snyder on their universe after BvS greatly under-preformed. that's why they quickly reshot things for Suicide Squad when the Bohemian Rhapsody trailer got so much positive attention despite it being nothing like the movie that was shot. They are just incompetent.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Jan 15, 2017 16:39:46 GMT -5
Look! ![](http://i.imgur.com/oQ1jGt4.jpg) See? See why Superman smiling and being happy doesn't work? You're all just a bunch of Marvel loving babies who don't get it! BvS was perfect! Robbed of it's Oscar!
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Jan 15, 2017 16:55:30 GMT -5
If the MCU is WWE, than the DCEU is AWA.
TCU is TNA in case you're wondering
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 16:57:11 GMT -5
I will just +1 what someone else said
What they should have done is just take the goodwiil of their TV universe and made their movie universe from that.
The Justice League short film I posted is a picture perfect method to follow IMO.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 16:58:12 GMT -5
Honestly DC would probably be fine commercially - at least for a time, though the law of diminishing returns is definitely going to set in and I can't see Justice League doing as well as BvS since its only selling point over it adding a bunch of nobodies they didn't bother to build up, and it's a pretty damning indictment to begin with that a movie with the trinity in it couldn't break a billion - if they'd just trim the budgets on their movies. They've all brought in plenty of money but are so absurdly expensive to make that they're just pissing money into the wind despite it.
Though that's something that can be said for a lot of Hollywood right now. Just frivolous spending going on far and wide.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Jan 15, 2017 17:36:06 GMT -5
And plus the whole "Complete/extended edition" debacle hasn't helped Extended editions should complement the piece, not explain it. For example, Terminator 2 is a fantastic film on it's own. The extended version is available as a, "Ooh, that was good so what was Jim Cameron's complete vision?" If DC are going to explain away extended editions are going to improve the movie, then they need to rethink strategy.
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