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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 22:25:00 GMT -5
I actually liked Man of Steel. In a weird way I think if Snyder made a standalone sequel to Man of Steel it would of been good. I just think a combination of Snyder acting as the showrunner of the DCCU with Warner Executives rushing everything is causing this to fail. Like not even Joss Whedon or The Russo Brothers oversee'd the MCU.
But yeah this news is just dissapointing and Snyder should not be overseeing the DCCU. Warner needs to throw all the money for a Kevin Feige 2.0. Like he has to have a protégé that could be bought out right?
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BlackoutCreature
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Jan 15, 2017 22:25:00 GMT -5
What was the last decent theatrical release involving a DC superhero? I know the last one I thought was good was The Dark Knight. Before that, the only things I can find that I enjoyed are Mask of the Phantasm and Burton's Batman movies. The Lego Movie.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jan 15, 2017 22:36:19 GMT -5
But yeah this news is just dissapointing and Snyder should not be overseeing the DCCU. Warner needs to throw all the money for a Kevin Feige 2.0. Like he has to have a protégé that could be bought out right? They already did that. Geoff Johns has been in charge of DC Films for a while now. The Flash will be the first film made under his control.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Jan 15, 2017 23:03:42 GMT -5
I want Deborah & Zack Snyder to be fired in slow motion And she goes "Zaaaaaaaaaaaaaack......!" And he goes "Maaaaaaaaartha!!.." Exec: Zack, we're letting you go. Zack: Why did you say that name? Exec: Huh? You mean Zack? Zack: WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME? Exec: Because we're firing you? Zack: MARTHAAAA! Exec: I'm calling security.
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StuntGranny®
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Post by StuntGranny® on Jan 15, 2017 23:07:13 GMT -5
What was the last decent theatrical release involving a DC superhero? I know the last one I thought was good was The Dark Knight. Before that, the only things I can find that I enjoyed are Mask of the Phantasm and Burton's Batman movies. The Lego Movie. Forgot all about this, but yeah, I guess it counts as a DC movie.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 15, 2017 23:23:36 GMT -5
But yeah this news is just dissapointing and Snyder should not be overseeing the DCCU. Warner needs to throw all the money for a Kevin Feige 2.0. Like he has to have a protégé that could be bought out right? They already did that. Geoff Johns has been in charge of DC Films for a while now. The Flash will be the first film made under his control. Yeah, they put him in charge midway through though... instead of being the guy from the start... That said Geoff was one of the reasons Green Lantern turned out the way it did... and pretty sure he was the one that demanded Parallax was in it... so basically the man that decided to stick 3 movies into one...
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jan 15, 2017 23:31:21 GMT -5
They already did that. Geoff Johns has been in charge of DC Films for a while now. The Flash will be the first film made under his control. Yeah, they put him in charge midway through though... instead of being the guy from the start... That said Geoff was one of the reasons Green Lantern turned out the way it did... and pretty sure he was the one that demanded Parallax was in it... so basically the man that decided to stick 3 movies into one... Yeah, I'm not entirely convinced he's really going to be that big a step up from Snyder. Definitely an improvement, but there's still no guarantee he'll make the movies good.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Jan 15, 2017 23:43:25 GMT -5
Why didn't they just get a trained monkey then?
Any idiot could tell you that letting Snyder and Goyer stay just meant more of the same garbage.
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Sephiroth
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Post by Sephiroth on Jan 16, 2017 0:04:20 GMT -5
I feel like D.C. is also suffering from the same problem the X Men franchise is; with every subsequent film they try to make it bigger and bigger and cram more and more characters into it. It just gets exhausting really fast. Especially considering how they seemed to initially set the stage for more of a slow build up with Man of Steel, only to turn Dawn of Justice into an utter cluster. X Men and Avengers are starting to feel a bit crowded, but in both cases it took roughly a decade and half a dozen films. D.C. got to this point in less than five years with only two or three. And even though the MCU is crowded I still have complete faith that the Russos can do Infinity War which by it's nature will have every hero we've already met in the movies plus people from the shows and proberly intro new people without it being a clusterf***. Warner Brothers failure with the DCEU lies with them trying to do in 3 movies what Marvel did in 14. My point exactly. Right after Man of Steel, I felt like they had a fairly good breaking point with how they had hinted at other characters; the Lexcorp and Wayne Enterprises logos in the background, the teasing at Supergirl in the Fortress of Solitude. And DC openly stated they planned for the emergence of Superman to be a trigger event that would cause other super heroes to start coming forward. But then they jumped into Batman vs Superman with Wonder Woman and others thrown in. And even then, they don't have anywhere near the MCU's level of cohesion between Dawn of Justice and Suicide Squad.
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Shai
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Post by Shai on Jan 16, 2017 0:21:14 GMT -5
Another thing bout the whole DCEU vs. MCU thing is DC had Zack Snyder who seems to just not get superheroes at all and David Goyer who hates comic books and this whole thing is just a paycheck. While Marvel Studios seems to be run by actual comic book fans and they attract directors and writers who love Marvel. Even the actors they pick while some of them aren't fans the first thing that seems to happen now when you get cast in an MCU project is you get a box of comics. The MCU has stayed closer to the spirit of their characters and stories (with some obvious changes due to them not currently owning everyone) then DC does and they own their entire character roster. As good as Disney has done with Marvel Studios its a damn shame they don't own their entire roster.
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Juice
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Post by Juice on Jan 16, 2017 0:55:06 GMT -5
But historically DC haven't had the darker characters as a whole. The whole reason Marvel was different from DC in the first place in the Silver Age was because they were more 'realistic' at the time. Of your core DC characters, only Batman has ever been dark. And he's only been dark at varying periods in his history. He's had at least as much time being completely sunny. But take him out of the equation and virtually none of the core characters are dark: Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Aquaman etc.. none of those characters are dark when they're at their most iconic. Certainly none of them are darker than say Daredevil, Punisher, Ghost Rider et al. And I understand that those are your second stringers for Marvel, but take THE Marvel character Spider-man. His whole deal is guilt. You have a point but I would argue very seriously against Green Lantern not being dark. He was the poster child for gritty stories about race equality and social commentary no one else was going near. But thats not silver age and frankly jo jero books were dark at that period mainly just other stuff like horror compilations.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 4:16:39 GMT -5
Honestly the kind of especially frustrating thing for me is that at its best I'd like a series of DC movies WAY more than what Marvel's doing, they're just not remotely delivering. Marvel stuff I'm largely up and down on - liked the initial wave a lot (other than Iron Man 2, and maybe Captain America - my opinion of it goes up and down) and loved Avengers 1, for the second Iron Man 3 I enjoyed in the theater but had more and more problems with coming out of it and probably would dislike if I watched it again, didn't like Thor 2, didn't like Winter Soldier, didn't like Age of Ultron, and had absolutely zero desire to see Ant-Man. Liked Civil War and Guardians of the Galaxy both a good bit, not seen Doctor Strange, and only one of the upcoming movies that really has me all that interested is Spider-Man and even then I'm pretty damn burnt out on this being the second reboot in five years.
I think part of the issue for me on it is that the Marvel movies almost uniformly have terrible villains. The only one who was really even halfway competent was Zemo and even then the plot kind of had to bend over backwards to have his plans work as well as they did, and only other ones I'd really describe as entertaining are Whiplash (who bugs me mostly in how despite being the main villain of Iron Man 2 he has almost nothing to do with its plot, and the movie doesn't seem to realize he's a lot more sympathetic in that movie than Tony is) and Loki. But that's still much better than Gets His Ass Kicked By a Scientist Zod, Zombie Zod, Lex Riddler, and Magic Chick Where the Sum Total of Ideas We Had For Her Was That Cool Shot of the Hand Flipping Over.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Jan 16, 2017 9:37:32 GMT -5
This is what happens when you see someone doing something successful and saying "Hey, that looks easy! I can do that, too!". At this point, I would scrap everything after Justice League and Wonder Woman and make everything else one-offs. It doesn't help they did it all ass backwards either. Going from Man of Steel to BvS would be like Iron Man jumping straight into Civil War. You do Superman,then Batman, Wonder Woman and possibly Flash and then you jump into Justice League after setting up the heavy hitters.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 9:55:54 GMT -5
While i'm getting pretty much burned out on dc after 3 mediocre movies, i'll still wait to go see wonder woman to make an opinion on it.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 16, 2017 11:21:36 GMT -5
Definitely agreed that the big problem for DC so far has been this ridiculous rush to play catch up with Marvel by diving headlong into an Avengers style movie instead of letting the world build itself up more. This has led to obvious executive meddling via a perceived need to cram as much as humanly possible into each movie, and Snyder simply can't carry that load.
I remember when they started all of this they made the point that they wanted to do more "filmmaker-driven" movies, letting directors give their own takes on the characters, but you can't do that and in the same breath say "yeah, but we're also putting them all into the same universe and we're also quickly moving toward Justice League". Like...no. That's not how that works. It COULD work, but you have to let the films breathe, have to let the directors have room to experiment a bit, but you can't do that while simultaneously gambling on having multiple films pull in over one billion dollars each.
It's too bad, too; I don't particularly care about "this character should be like this, that character should be like that", since characters like Superman and Batman are very much open to different interpretations and reinterpretations. In fact, I kind of liked the ambition involved in a few of these movies; Disney's Marvel output has had the higher quality final products, but I've kind of found them a bit "sanitary", I guess (which is why I dug Guardians of the Galaxy more than a lot of the other ones, felt like more of a risk), so the DC flicks do something different is a-OK in my book...but again, there's this jumbled mess where they don't know if they actually want to give the filmmakers any creative freedom, where they're rushing way too quickly into their big crossover movie, where we wind up with "complete editions" that are good but theatrical cuts that have been edited like crap, etc.
It's just frustrating; I wasn't a comic book reader growing up, but I DID grow up with Batman: TAS, along with the Superman and Justice League shows, and I REALLY want this to work...but again, I'd argue that parts of it have worked, but that the larger structure behind what DC and WB are attempting just can't hold. It's not the "dark vibe" for me, it's the obvious "too many cooks" factor that's weighing each of these flicks down, and while we can hope this is only a rumor, it's not hard to imagine WW and JL having similar problems.
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H-Virus
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Post by H-Virus on Jan 16, 2017 12:24:17 GMT -5
I've waited too long for a Wonder Woman movie to dismiss it out of hearsay (no matter how justified that hearsay may be at this point), but I guarantee that if I leave the theater angry or disappointed then I'm done with the DCEU.
At this point, I honestly wish they would just scrap the whole experiment and instead make a live-action Justice League TV series; not only are they much better at those, but it would also make it easier to tell the longer, more in-depth stories without having to cut a ton of shit out of them, and also introduce a lot of new characters to the universe much quicker without the need for this sloppy game of catch-up with Marvel they're playing. Sure, they won't be pulling in a billion dollars a year with a TV show, but I'm pretty sure they're not doing that now anyway, so what do they really have to lose?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 12:39:32 GMT -5
F***!!!!!! This DCEU thing isn't gonna work out is it? Though I wonder how certain people are gonna blame this on Marvel or say that superhero movies have "jumped the shark" and that's why this is happening. Though this begs to ask the question. Why can Marvel make 10 billion dollars off this and DC can't even get their franchise off the ground? On the plus side, the DC tv Arrowverse is very successful. If they decide to just scrap the movie series, we might get cool stuff like Batman and Green Lantern on great tv shows instead of in shitty movies.
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BlackoutCreature
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Jan 16, 2017 12:51:01 GMT -5
I've waited too long for a Wonder Woman movie to dismiss it out of hearsay (no matter how justified that hearsay may be at this point), but I guarantee that if I leave the theater angry or disappointed then I'm done with the DCEU. At this point, I honestly wish they would just scrap the whole experiment and instead make a live-action Justice League TV series; not only are they much better at those, but it would also make it easier to tell the longer, more in-depth stories without having to cut a ton of shit out of them, and also introduce a lot of new characters to the universe much quicker without the need for this sloppy game of catch-up with Marvel they're playing. Sure, they won't be pulling in a billion dollars a year with a TV show, but I'm pretty sure they're not doing that now anyway, so what do they really have to lose? I have to believe a live-action Justice League television series, especially one based on the traditional Big Seven League, would run into extreme budget problems pretty damn quick. Unless it does Super Bowl numbers on a weekly basis I can't see any network thinking it's worth it.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Jan 17, 2017 2:39:16 GMT -5
So something involving Zack Snyder is turning out to be a clusterf***? What a shock. At this point, I would rather have Michael Bay helm the DC universe.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 3:39:23 GMT -5
What was the last decent theatrical release involving a DC superhero? I know the last one I thought was good was The Dark Knight. Before that, the only things I can find that I enjoyed are Mask of the Phantasm and Burton's Batman movies. The Lego Movie. And there's a Lego Batman movie out next month.
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