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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on May 31, 2017 8:16:01 GMT -5
Having discussed the topic on and off for a long time with many a poster, I find that most seem to be perfectly OK with the base concept of a "company ace/top guy" and even the base concept of a "Superman push", only taking issue with whoever is being placed in that role and how it's happening (mostly in WWE).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 8:17:09 GMT -5
Admittedly I far from follow NJPW regularly, but for me Okada has always just kind of had, I dunno... a bit of a disconnect? I recognize the guy's super talented and really deserves everything he gets, but on some intangible level I don't entirely buy the hype. Seen him have some awesome matches and the guy oozes charisma, but there is just some unknown there where while I'm definitely a fan I don't entirely get the love.
Granted part of that might just be the fact I think the Rainmaker is a super underwhelming finisher that's easier to take as a joke than anything with how much a not all that impactful clothesline is sold as a world-beater, but I don't think that's really it. Feels like there's something more but I don't know what it is.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on May 31, 2017 8:43:04 GMT -5
Having discussed the topic on and off for a long time with many a poster, I find that most seem to be perfectly OK with the base concept of a "company ace/top guy" and even the base concept of a "Superman push", only taking issue with whoever is being placed in that role and how it's happening (mostly in WWE). It's the age of internet discourse and companies trying to go public. More and bigger expectations are probably placed on company aces now by fans than in the past. Crowds are less forgiving than ever if they feel the wrestler is falling into too predictable a routine, so said ace has to keep evolving their acts. That doesn't automatically mean "heel turn/make the character edgier", it can mean adding more nuances in their promos, expanding their movesets and/or mixing up the kinds of stories they tell in their matches. If they can keep fans guessing to a degree while still being exciting, a polarizing ace can win more fans over time.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on May 31, 2017 9:08:47 GMT -5
Having discussed the topic on and off for a long time with many a poster, I find that most seem to be perfectly OK with the base concept of a "company ace/top guy" and even the base concept of a "Superman push", only taking issue with whoever is being placed in that role and how it's happening (mostly in WWE). It's the age of internet discourse and companies trying to go public. More and bigger expectations are probably placed on company aces now by fans than in the past. Crowds are less forgiving than ever if they feel the wrestler is falling into too predictable a routine, so said ace has to keep evolving their acts. That doesn't automatically mean "heel turn/make the character edgier", it can mean adding more nuances in their promos, expanding their movesets and/or mixing up the kinds of stories they tell in their matches. If they can keep fans guessing to a degree while still being exciting, a polarizing ace can win more fans over time. Surely the best way to keep them guessing is to dress Okada up like Kato from the green hornet. ... ... I'll leave
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ronin705
Dennis Stamp
All Might
Posts: 4,277
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Post by ronin705 on May 31, 2017 9:55:25 GMT -5
Okada and Naito are franchise players, hence them having the straps. Okada, personally, i love cuz that kind of cocky babyface isn't around anymore. It's either captain america boy scout, or chickenshit heel nowadays. I love the little things he does like at the 5/29 show, O'spreay reaches his hand out to Okada , and he just looks at him like, "You better just take that hand back homey" lol.. Can't wait for Naito to dethrone him (since I think NJPW will pull a WWE and keep sleeping on Kenny) Outside of Tanahashi and maybe Cena on certain nights, huh? The boyscout babyface is (sadly) hella rare today. Technically, Bryan was a white bread baby face too in a sense.Another example i can rwach for (lol) is roddy strong now in nxt, and demon-less Finn. Japan does seem very "cool" heel heavy though
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Post by corndog on May 31, 2017 10:14:31 GMT -5
I have really warmed up to Okada during this reign, he has been incredible. My biggest knock on him was simply he isn't the most interesting character in the company and I still feel that way to an extent. But he is the perfect champion in both the ring and even outside of it. He's a chameleon that can change to whatever he needs to be in every title defense.
When I was watching the Funks Documentary, Dory was describing what he felt a champion should be, he said a guy that can play the face or heel when needed and most of all someone that can make the challenger look better than before the match, even in defeat. That is exactly what Okada is, how many times has Okada gone into a match overconfident, only to just barely escape with the championship. Sometimes, his feelings about the opponent don't really change, like with Suzuki and even Shibata to an extent, calling him "stupidly serious" afterwards. However, with Omega, he has displayed a massive amount of respect for him after Wrestle Kingdom.
As for the Okada hate, it's simple, it's the WWE ruining the "Ace" character in Cena. But I think with Okada, it is very difficult to challenge his choosing of the role, when the guy has been proving he actually is the best over and over again. He doesn't have to be your favorite, but you have to admit, every title defense is a much watch whether you want to see him win or lose. That is what makes a great champion.
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Post by MrElijah on May 31, 2017 10:49:31 GMT -5
Okada: I purpose a conundrum to you, Naito. A riddle of you will. What do call, a Mallard with a Cold? Well, one's a sick duck.....well I've forgotten the rest but your mother's a whore!
Seriously, Okada carries himself as an utter star.
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Post by Potayto Potato on May 31, 2017 11:16:14 GMT -5
From the little I watch NJPW, he's the one standing out the most as a pure "build-your-promotion-around" type of megastar the ones disliking him should actually question their wrestling fandom entirely People can like and dislike whoever they choose. It doesn't make them any less or more of a fan. nah being too hard to please often means you just don't enjoy it anymore
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Post by Potayto Potato on May 31, 2017 11:24:12 GMT -5
Granted part of that might just be the fact I think the Rainmaker is a super underwhelming finisher that's easier to take as a joke than anything with how much a not all that impactful clothesline is sold as a world-beater yeah that's why it was voted "best wrestling maneuver" in 2012 and 2013 in the WON awards Personally one of my favorite finishers, one of the most believable looking, flashiest and most surprising/shocking I've ever seen
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 11:27:04 GMT -5
Granted part of that might just be the fact I think the Rainmaker is a super underwhelming finisher that's easier to take as a joke than anything with how much a not all that impactful clothesline is sold as a world-beater yeah that's why it was voted "best wrestling maneuver" in 2012 and 2013 in the WON awards Personally one of my favorite finishers, one of the most believable looking, flashiest and most surprising/shocking I've ever seen I mean, I get that people like it, I just personally don't really. Though if nothing else it's worlds better than Seth's shitty knockoff of it.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 31, 2017 12:21:49 GMT -5
yeah that's why it was voted "best wrestling maneuver" in 2012 and 2013 in the WON awards Personally one of my favorite finishers, one of the most believable looking, flashiest and most surprising/shocking I've ever seen I mean, I get that people like it, I just personally don't really. Though if nothing else it's worlds better than Seth's shitty knockoff of it. You mean Seths shitty knock off of Omega
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 12:26:01 GMT -5
I mean, I get that people like it, I just personally don't really. Though if nothing else it's worlds better than Seth's shitty knockoff of it. You mean Seths shitty knock off of Omega Well, yeah, but in terms of how they try to structure it in his matches thus far the likely thought process behind making it a finisher is most likely, "It's a backwards pull into a strike like the Rainmaker, it can be as over as the Rainmaker!"
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 31, 2017 12:28:41 GMT -5
You mean Seths shitty knock off of Omega Well, yeah, but in terms of how they try to structure it in his matches thus far the likely thought process behind making it a finisher is most likely, "It's a backwards pull into a strike like the Rainmaker, it can be as over as the Rainmaker!" Yea which is bad because Seth does it too sloppy and nobody can sell it like death like Okada did at WK. Give Seth the frog splash.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 31, 2017 12:37:30 GMT -5
The boyscout babyface is (sadly) hella rare today. Typically because anybody can check their social media now, and see the things they've said that people may find non-kosher. Or that guys with inside sources like Meltzer or Ryan Satin are going to get the goods on when someone's personal life isn't so great. It's going to get out (see : Cena's cheating/divorce). Now, to be fair, I don't really know how much of that goes on in Japan (I'd suppose very little, if at all), but in regards to the west at least, it's just far too simple to bring someone down and shatter any sort of "boy scout" image that's built up for them.
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Post by honsou on May 31, 2017 17:34:14 GMT -5
It does seem the Japanese media and fan base are a lot more strict with their wrestling stars than in the states. The best example of this lately is early in 2017 it was discovered that Shibata cheated on his wife and the person he had the affair with showed some texts of him bad mouthed some fan's fan art of him, saying he threw away most of it. NJPW seemed to be prepared for this, announcing Okada was getting engaged and Ishii was having his first kid. Also Shibata took some pictures of some fan art he was sent, showing that he still had kept some of it at least.
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Post by Raskovnik on May 31, 2017 20:03:34 GMT -5
It does seem the Japanese media and fan base are a lot more strict with their wrestling stars than in the states. The best example of this lately is early in 2017 it was discovered that Shibata cheated on his wife and the person he had the affair with showed some texts of him bad mouthed some fan's fan art of him, saying he threw away most of it. NJPW seemed to be prepared for this, announcing Okada was getting engaged and Ishii was having his first kid. Also Shibata took some pictures of some fan art he was sent, showing that he still had kept some of it at least. He wasn't bad mouthing the fan art. That was people Google Translating his Tweets and trying to get to the bottom of what he was saying. What he actually said was that he appreciates the fan art but he doesn't feel like transporting some of it because it's bulky and often already framed and/or made with material that's delicate, such as glass, so it's a pain in the ass, especially as it was given to him at a UK show. The real story was him having an affair and sending explicit texts to that woman, with her threatening to post more, which the office wasn't thrilled with.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jun 1, 2017 6:18:30 GMT -5
Simply put, he's not my cup of tea. No denying his drawing power or list of bangers. But like Will Osperay, I don't dig him at all. Naito, in my opinion, is the better wrestler and character. Going from being dead in the water and hated for the wrong reasons to becoming the shit in less than a year. Like Tanahashi before him, Okada as the Ace runs the place and justifiably treated as such. But like Nakamura and now Naito, the defacto number 2 gets my support.
Also on this board, Okada is beloved and talk against him is heresy. Other places on the net specifically puroresu centric sites? Not so much.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 1, 2017 6:25:26 GMT -5
Cant really add much more to this aside from TNA are f***ing losers, everyone knows that by now But seeing how GOOD Okada is now, it just highlights that.
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
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Post by lucas_lee on Jun 1, 2017 6:26:58 GMT -5
Simply put, he's not my cup of tea. No denying his drawing power or list of bangers. But like Will Osperay, I don't dig him at all. Naito, in my opinion, is the better wrestler and character. Going from being dead in the water and hated for the wrong reasons to becoming the shit in less than a year. Like Tanahashi before him, Okada as the Ace runs the place and justifiably treated as such. But like Nakamura and now Naito, the defacto number 2 gets my support. Also on this board, Okada is beloved and talk against him is heresy. Other places on the net specifically puroresu centric sites? Not so much. There's one Facebook Puro fan club that one of the admins, blames people being conditioned to American styled booking as to why they dislike Okada and you should feel dumb for not liking him
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jun 1, 2017 6:31:49 GMT -5
Simply put, he's not my cup of tea. No denying his drawing power or list of bangers. But like Will Osperay, I don't dig him at all. Naito, in my opinion, is the better wrestler and character. Going from being dead in the water and hated for the wrong reasons to becoming the shit in less than a year. Like Tanahashi before him, Okada as the Ace runs the place and justifiably treated as such. But like Nakamura and now Naito, the defacto number 2 gets my support. Also on this board, Okada is beloved and talk against him is heresy. Other places on the net specifically puroresu centric sites? Not so much. There's one Facebook Puro fan club that one of the admins, blames people being conditioned to American styled booking as to why they dislike Okada and you should feel dumb for not liking him Truthfully, I feel it is similar to here when it comes to Okada. I felt Naito vs Tanahashi at this year's WrestleKingdom was the best match on the show. People online raged against those who praised Okada vs Omega but didn't say it was the best match ever. Like saying the match was very good to great wasn't enough.
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