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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jun 6, 2017 8:50:24 GMT -5
I don't see Okada as a chosen champion by the office. I'm just a casual fan of njpw, but I feel like the guy came out of nowhere. Please correct me if I'm wrong but the guy wasn't even scouted by njpw, it took him a couple of years to get there. They also loaned him around even to tna and that almost killed him. I also think that he's not the typical njpw product, in that he could become mainstream worldwide, the f***er not only is featured in anime but he's pretty much a playable character in tekken 7. I didn't know he was divisive in Japan, could it be because he's too famous now? Like rock in early 2003? Okada is very much a "chosen one". The fact he's featured front and center in different anime, the same way Cena is in WWE's Scooby Doo crossovers, proves that. As was Tanahashi. But that's not always a bad thing. In fact, I think if your chosen top guy is talented enough, it's a plus. Nakamura was positioned as a future golden boy, especially when he beat Tenzan for the Heavyweight title while he was in his early 20's. That got some backlash. And it would still take a few more years before he really developed his persona.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jun 6, 2017 9:33:07 GMT -5
Honestly, I wouldn't go back in time and change much about either Okada's or Cena's booking on top. I think that if you really want to establish a top guy as a draw, you have to push them incredibly hard, and they have to clearly be established as the best. And unfortunately, that means some fans' favorites are just going to have to job to them at some point. You need to break some eggs to cook the omelette. That's why Okada, Cena and Lesnar are draws, they've been protected heavily. A smart booker shouldn't worry about their top face looking too powerful until they're an established money-maker. Then, maybe they can take some risks, and have them lose a little to some up-and-comers so it doesn't get too tedious. But after that? Back to winning. Naito's got a huge following, and maybe his one IWGP Heavyweight reign was too brief, but I liked how it was booked as such an interference-heavy deviation from the norm- him and L.I.J were shaking up the system, DX/CM Punk-style. And Okada's prior dominance made that Invasion Attack show feel more meaningful. It's like when WCW ended Goldberg's streak, that was way too early. He lost a lot of his mystique after Starrcade 98, and he wasn't made to look as special as he was before. I always laugh when people talk about "oh, so-and-so is such a Mary Sue". And I think to myself, good. A lot of the biggest draws were pretty damn Sue-ish. The first thing a superstar wrestler should be is canonically awesome, first and foremost. If you want an ace, then you have to keep your foot on the pedal in terms of making them look strong. If Reigns had won the title at Mania 31 and gone on a beastly tear, retaining it for nearly a year, I truly believe his reactions today wouldn't be anywhere as bad. I doubt he'd be universally cheered, but I think WWE putting off his eventual dominance has hurt him badly. Them not allowing him to be the true Big Dog for a meaningful period has given fans a sense of both impatience and frustration. Booking him as a scrappy underdog against HHH felt very contrived, and the fakeness of it stood out- whereas Cena's reactions began to rebound once the company dropped the "can Cena overcome the odds?" stuff and put him over as a living legend. The sentiment around Roman seems to be "just coronate him and get it over with", when it could really be "damn, Reigns is beating everyone's ass, who can stop him?" The key difference between him and Okada for me isn't just Okada's ability. Mostly, I feel it's that NJPW's been less gunshy about establishing Okada as The Top Dude. The problem is WWE heard the reaction prior to 31 and panicked. And now they're too scared to actually commit to Roman as a top guy (can't really be THE Guy when the brands are split) because they think that the backlash will be bad or worse. And at this point they'd be right judging from a lot of the reactions here. Yeah, Mania 31 was absolutely the time to pull the trigger on Reigns. Were I Vince, I would have stuck with him and he would have stayed champ until at least Survivor Series 2015. I wouldn't have put the world title on Rollins just yet. If you're going to push a guy, PUSH a guy. I mean...we always talk about pushes being "organic". Nothing in wrestling is truly organic, not even Austin. Once he was over, WWF went CRAZY shoving Stone Cold down the fans' throats. He wouldn't have stayed over if they weren't pushing him so hard. Sometimes it's okay for a babyface to be dominant. WWE could use way more dominant faces. It'd be a helluva lot better than how on-and-off they are with guys like Ambrose, or how pathetic Bayley's been booked as of late. If you want to see an example of a babyface being too powerful, I'd look at Hogan in 1994-95 WCW, where no one could compete with the guy and he practically ran the company. But outside of that, every profitable wrestling company needs that top star who's a cut above the others.
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Fundertaker
El Dandy
Hideo Kojima should direct every ending ever!
Posts: 8,933
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Post by Fundertaker on Jun 6, 2017 9:36:21 GMT -5
I don't see Okada as a chosen champion by the office. I'm just a casual fan of njpw, but I feel like the guy came out of nowhere. Please correct me if I'm wrong but the guy wasn't even scouted by njpw, it took him a couple of years to get there. They also loaned him around even to tna and that almost killed him. Actually, the "not being scouted by NJPW" means he's even more of a chosen one. Indeed, he was originally scouted by Ultimo Dragon who trained him after the Toryumon break-up. Then NJPW took him, sent him to the dojo and retrained him and re-debuted him. And it was clear from the start that he was poised to be front and center in their future, frequently pairing him up with Kanemoto, NO LIMIT, etc. His last match before excursion was a 1-on-1 against Tanahashi! Usually it's against someone from the same generation or some random multi-tag thing, but nope, 1-on-1 with the Ace of the Universe. Then he gets a mid-excursion one-match return to team up with "not-completely broken" Goto in a match against NOAH guys at WK, and then returns once again with the rainmaker gimmick one year later... against YOSHI-HASHI, who was also returning, thus killing their match dead. Then a month later he was IWGP Heavyweight champion. On his first title shot. Just after returning. And being laughed at by Tanahashi when he challenged him. That is something that DOESN'T happen. And immediately there were plans to put him on the map culturally in Japan. So, he was "chosen" and never came "out of nowhere". He was groomed, with some shock value to kick the push into high gear from the start.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 6, 2017 10:42:19 GMT -5
The problem is WWE heard the reaction prior to 31 and panicked. And now they're too scared to actually commit to Roman as a top guy (can't really be THE Guy when the brands are split) because they think that the backlash will be bad or worse. And at this point they'd be right judging from a lot of the reactions here. Yeah, Mania 31 was absolutely the time to pull the trigger on Reigns. Were I Vince, I would have stuck with him and he would have stayed champ until at least Survivor Series 2015. I wouldn't have put the world title on Rollins just yet. If you're going to push a guy, PUSH a guy. I mean...we always talk about pushes being "organic". Nothing in wrestling is truly organic, not even Austin. Once he was over, WWF went CRAZY shoving Stone Cold down the fans' throats. He wouldn't have stayed over if they weren't pushing him so hard. Sometimes it's okay for a babyface to be dominant. WWE could use way more dominant faces. It'd be a helluva lot better than how on-and-off they are with guys like Ambrose, or how pathetic Bayley's been booked as of late. If you want to see an example of a babyface being too powerful, I'd look at Hogan in 1994-95 WCW, where no one could compete with the guy and he practically ran the company. But outside of that, every profitable wrestling company needs that top star who's a cut above the others. Yea I hate that WWE doesn't just let Reigns have that one extended push with the belt instead of all these mini pushes. Give the man the title more than 2-3 months and let him work. Gedo has a done good job with Okada and everyone else in the background saying this is our guy but that doesn't mean other guys are twiddling their thumbs. Okada is forever made off this title run as while he's been champ numerous times, I feel like this truly cemented him as the Ace. Keep in mind you still got guys who can run with the ball that had "Ace" labels on them as well with Naito and even someone like Sanada who wasn't picked as an Ace in NJPW but elsewhere. As you said every company needs their top guy but that doesn't mean the others don't matter. Okada has a strong cast behind him so it's not all on his head to succeed.
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