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Post by ben:friendship frog on Nov 30, 2017 22:05:21 GMT -5
But.. you can't use that word anymore "oh please!" Damn that political correctness.
I've always defended King, but lost a ton of respect with how he dismissed this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2017 22:13:21 GMT -5
Remember when Goldust (as Dustin) was burning his attire on the stage and some guy from the crowd kept yelling the f word at him?
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The Blue Nova
Don Corleone
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Post by The Blue Nova on Nov 30, 2017 22:18:49 GMT -5
But.. you can't use that word anymore "oh please!" Damn that political correctness. I've always defended King, but lost a ton of respect with how he dismissed this. I respect your opinion. as you are entitled to it.. But Lawler was just saying how you could not get away with it today because we do live in a world where people are overly sensitive to everything and anything.. Honestly Jerry was just being a heel in this promo and getting real heal heat. He was right You could not get away with doing that in 2017 as you do in 1997 it is a much different era. Although I would never use this word in public. If your a Heel in wrestling then by all means get heat. and honestly Shawn Michaels sticking the canadian flag up his nose was way more offensive.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Nov 30, 2017 22:27:19 GMT -5
There's plenty of ways to be an ultra effective heel without having to stoop to racism, sexism or any form of bigotry.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2017 22:36:00 GMT -5
Lawler is right about everything he said in that clip. Not sure where the disagreement or loss of respect comes in. I don't know Lawler personally so I don't know his beliefs, but he was a heel cutting a heel promo in a time when you could get away with saying certain things for heel heat. He said a heel can't act that way now because everyone is offended by everything, and again, he's right. This is a scripted show where the commentators tell you it's fake, the audience knows it's fake, and they have a 30 year history of not exactly being high brow television, but now suddenly people are holding them to some high moral ground, and it makes no sense to me. If you're sensitive about social issues, then being a fan of pro wrestling to begin with is questionable. There's enough examples of racism (overt or subtle), sexism, etc, etc) to fill a football stadium.
It's fake. It's telling a story. Granted, the WWE and good storytelling haven't gone together in a long time, but there are ways to use controversial things to the benefit of a story. Back then, twenty years ago, it was an acceptable way to get heel heat. Today, it isn't. You can say that's a good thing due to society progressing, or a bad thing for how sensitive everyone is, but it's reality.
The poster above mentioned Shawn and the Canadian flag. If I'm remembering correctly, Shawn actually rubbed his crotch with the flag and dry humped it at Survivor Series 1997. There is a list a mile long of things that happened twenty years ago that wouldn't fly today. Some with good reason.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Nov 30, 2017 22:40:55 GMT -5
A fork?
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Nov 30, 2017 22:43:17 GMT -5
He was saying that yes but he also obviously didn't understand why it's a good thing that you can't say things like that anymore.
And if you're comparing the flag shit to homophobia then I just don't have the desire to discuss it as our opinions are obviously ways apart.
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ISO Mid Thigh Pull
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Post by ISO Mid Thigh Pull on Nov 30, 2017 22:44:18 GMT -5
My hobbies include jogging, long walks on the beach, ordering pizza, avoiding Jerry Lawler's input on literally anything, and avoiding Jerry Lawler in general
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Post by DoubleDare on Nov 30, 2017 22:59:39 GMT -5
I mean, yea if we're going by late 90s standards there is a lot you could get offended by.
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Nov 30, 2017 23:01:35 GMT -5
I mean, yea if we're going by late 90s standards there is a lot you could get offended by. I'm not offended by the promo, I'm offended by him not seeing anything wrong with it.. in 2017.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2017 23:07:45 GMT -5
There's plenty of ways to be an ultra effective heel without having to stoop to racism, sexism or any form of bigotry. Exactly. Using slurs with no nuance is just lowest common denominator trash and I think is a major reason why wrestling has a reputation of essentially being the red headed step child of entertainment that makes way less money from tv rights fees than they should.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2017 23:13:16 GMT -5
My hobbies include jogging, long walks on the beach, ordering pizza, avoiding Jerry Lawler's input on literally anything, and avoiding Jerry Lawler in general You're exactly my kind of girl.
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The Blue Nova
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Post by The Blue Nova on Nov 30, 2017 23:31:51 GMT -5
There's plenty of ways to be an ultra effective heel without having to stoop to racism, sexism or any form of bigotry. Exactly. Using slurs with no nuance is just lowest common denominator trash and I think is a major reason why wrestling has a reputation of essentially being the red headed step child of entertainment that makes way less money from tv rights fees than they should. They been doing it for years tho.. Especially in the southern territories..
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Post by DoubleDare on Nov 30, 2017 23:33:35 GMT -5
I mean, yea if we're going by late 90s standards there is a lot you could get offended by. I'm not offended by the promo, I'm offended by him not seeing anything wrong with it.. in 2017. Good point, there are some things I'll agree on that we are too PC on, but that is not one of them. Lawler seems set in his ways, and I'm not surprised he doesn't see what would be wrong with it now. Though to be fair the whole basis of goldust back then would be pretty offensive now too, especially in 96 before he got marlena with his fued with Razor Ramon and Ahmed Johnson.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 30, 2017 23:34:07 GMT -5
I wonder if it'd blow his mind that folks who have had that word used against them weren't any fonder of the word then, either. We were just a lot easier to ignore.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2017 23:43:45 GMT -5
Exactly. Using slurs with no nuance is just lowest common denominator trash and I think is a major reason why wrestling has a reputation of essentially being the red headed step child of entertainment that makes way less money from tv rights fees than they should. They been doing it for years tho.. Especially in the southern territories.. Those southern companies are exhibit A in why I think wrestling has it's reputation and struggles to attract a more white collar fanbase. It wasn't as big of a deal back when companies had a buy tv time and the business side was all about live event revenue. But with companies now receiving money from tv networks and those rights fees being the biggest revenue stream, going back to that is leaving way too much money on the table.
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The Blue Nova
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Post by The Blue Nova on Nov 30, 2017 23:54:07 GMT -5
They been doing it for years tho.. Especially in the southern territories.. Those southern companies are exhibit A in why I think wrestling has it's reputation and struggles to attract a more white collar fanbase. It wasn't as big of a deal back when companies had a buy tv time and the business side was all about live event revenue. But with companies now receiving money from tv networks and those rights fees being the biggest revenue stream, going back to that is leaving way too much money on the table. And the fact most wrestling fans do not understand the southern wrestlingfan base and what made it special.
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King Devitt
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Post by King Devitt on Dec 1, 2017 0:11:34 GMT -5
Between that and asking if Goldust was Queer on National TV, it was hard to be a gay wrestling fan who LOVED the Goldust character.
I won't touch upon anything else in this thread, to each their own. But, yeah, there's no way any of that would fly today, and even more interesting he doesn't seem to see an issue with it.
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Zone Was Wrong
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Dec 1, 2017 0:15:52 GMT -5
Yeah I'm not going to rant like I would like to about it but THAT word and others like it are NEVER ok. I don't give a damn if you're a "heel". Call me pc or whatever buzzwords people use but until it affects you personally you'll never know how deeply those words can cut. That's all I'm saying about it.
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siredger
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Post by siredger on Dec 1, 2017 0:16:50 GMT -5
Lawler is right about everything he said in that clip. Not sure where the disagreement or loss of respect comes in. I don't know Lawler personally so I don't know his beliefs, but he was a heel cutting a heel promo in a time when you could get away with saying certain things for heel heat. He said a heel can't act that way now because everyone is offended by everything, and again, he's right. This is a scripted show where the commentators tell you it's fake, the audience knows it's fake, and they have a 30 year history of not exactly being high brow television, but now suddenly people are holding them to some high moral ground, and it makes no sense to me. If you're sensitive about social issues, then being a fan of pro wrestling to begin with is questionable. There's enough examples of racism (overt or subtle), sexism, etc, etc) to fill a football stadium. It's fake. It's telling a story. Granted, the WWE and good storytelling haven't gone together in a long time, but there are ways to use controversial things to the benefit of a story. Back then, twenty years ago, it was an acceptable way to get heel heat. Today, it isn't. You can say that's a good thing due to society progressing, or a bad thing for how sensitive everyone is, but it's reality. The poster above mentioned Shawn and the Canadian flag. If I'm remembering correctly, Shawn actually rubbed his crotch with the flag and dry humped it at Survivor Series 1997. There is a list a mile long of things that happened twenty years ago that wouldn't fly today. Some with good reason. The Shawn-sticking-the-Canadian-flag-in-his-nose thing actually happened on an episode of RAW shortly after the One Night Only PPV in Birmingham if memory serves me well. I'm Canadian and I actually found that funny.
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