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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 11, 2018 23:11:21 GMT -5
I hope Ed is not that way. Ditzy wasted and burned her parents money to the point they pretty much cut her off. Nordholm is not a rich man he's just an employee for Anthem. You're right Carter just wanted to become a tv star, thats why she paid for a crew to film her and do a reality tv pilot. Apparently a while back he was told to either make a profit off it or their are getting rid of it TNA couldn't make a profit with Spike TV why would Anthem think they could in the TV guide channel? I joined FAN in 2014 and there was a tna death thread even back then. Every now and then there's some new hope of someone who might be able to turn things around but inevitably nothing happens and the ratings go lower, then there comes a report about tna not paying the talent. It's a vicious cycle that has been going on for years. If TNA makes it past this year things will only get worse.
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Post by The Legendary Ring Troll {BLM} on Feb 12, 2018 2:34:50 GMT -5
Apparently a while back he was told to either make a profit off it or their are getting rid of it I joined FAN in 2014 and there was a tna death thread even back then. I've lurked since the WrestleCrap days, and I don't remember a time there wasn't a TNA death thread.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Feb 12, 2018 11:09:13 GMT -5
WWE do the same thing so I don't see the problem in this case. Most houseshow and PPV payments are 3 to 6 weeks after the event, based on a number of biographies.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 12, 2018 12:49:38 GMT -5
WWE do the same thing so I don't see the problem in this case. Most houseshow and PPV payments are 3 to 6 weeks after the event, based on a number of biographies. With WWE you have full-time work that keeps you occupied year-round and a downside to collect on time. In TNA you're essentially spending a week at a time working for something you're not getting paid for, while having to clear out any immediately paying work from other bookings to accommodate them. There's not really a comparison here.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Feb 12, 2018 16:03:21 GMT -5
WWE do the same thing so I don't see the problem in this case. Most houseshow and PPV payments are 3 to 6 weeks after the event, based on a number of biographies. With WWE you have full-time work that keeps you occupied year-round and a downside to collect on time. In TNA you're essentially spending a week at a time working for something you're not getting paid for, while having to clear out any immediately paying work from other bookings to accommodate them. There's not really a comparison here. Sorry to sound dismissive but being paid after six weeks after isn't an issue. Perhaps the wrestlers have to make adjustments around the payment schedule. I've had to do it in my line of work that I am paid six weeks later by my employer, and it's the only source of income for me. Tough at first, but you work with what you're handed. It's also very similar payment structure to start-up businesses that land exclusive contracts with large retailers like Walmart. They won't pay for services or goods until 90 days or more since receiving them, so the business has to run on loans until a time the payments start covering the periods of non-payment. I guess the only issue is if TNA only use you sometimes and not regularly. In that case, there is always the option to no-show. I doubt TNA have the resources to take wrestlers to court over it.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 12, 2018 16:12:01 GMT -5
With WWE you have full-time work that keeps you occupied year-round and a downside to collect on time. In TNA you're essentially spending a week at a time working for something you're not getting paid for, while having to clear out any immediately paying work from other bookings to accommodate them. There's not really a comparison here. Sorry to sound dismissive but being paid after six weeks after isn't an issue. Perhaps the wrestlers have to make adjustments around the payment schedule. I've had to do it in my line of work that I am paid six weeks later by my employer, and it's the only source of income for me. Tough at first, but you work with what you're handed. It's also very similar payment structure to start-up businesses that land exclusive contracts with large retailers like Walmart. They won't pay for services or goods until 90 days or more since receiving them, so the business has to run on loans until a time the payments start covering the periods of non-payment. I guess the only issue is if TNA only use you sometimes and not regularly. In that case, there is always the option to no-show. I doubt TNA have the resources to take wrestlers to court over it. That doesn't make it a good thing though? Especially because TNA doesn't keep people coming back for more every six week to settle into a rhythm with it, it's an erratic schedule and it could be two months, could be three and a half. And it stands in contrast to everything else about their work where they're paid up front for what they're doing everywhere else. What you're comparing it to corrects itself in time because you keep working, you have an employer. These people don't, they show up, have to make sure they have a week's worth of shows cleared out in their schedule, maybe don't get used on all them and lose some time they could spend taking bookings who'll pay them up ahead of time, and have to juggle their finances around the week-long hole in the middle. Like it's spelled out in the OP why people are upset, and it's not because of industry standards and things that correct themselves and start working right again; TNA is throwing an out of sync hole into their finances and just declaring they'll work differently than every other gig they have.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Feb 12, 2018 16:21:59 GMT -5
Sorry to sound dismissive but being paid after six weeks after isn't an issue. Perhaps the wrestlers have to make adjustments around the payment schedule. I've had to do it in my line of work that I am paid six weeks later by my employer, and it's the only source of income for me. Tough at first, but you work with what you're handed. It's also very similar payment structure to start-up businesses that land exclusive contracts with large retailers like Walmart. They won't pay for services or goods until 90 days or more since receiving them, so the business has to run on loans until a time the payments start covering the periods of non-payment. I guess the only issue is if TNA only use you sometimes and not regularly. In that case, there is always the option to no-show. I doubt TNA have the resources to take wrestlers to court over it. That doesn't make it a good thing though? Especially because TNA doesn't keep people coming back for more every six week to settle into a rhythm with it, it's an erratic schedule and it could be two months, could be three and a half. And it stands in contrast to everything else about their work where they're paid up front for what they're doing everywhere else. What you're comparing it to corrects itself in time because you keep working, you have an employer. These people don't, they show up, have to make sure they have a week's worth of shows cleared out in their schedule, maybe don't get used on all them and lose some time they could spend taking bookings who'll pay them up ahead of time, and have to juggle their finances around the week-long hole in the middle. Like it's spelled out in the OP why people are upset, and it's not because of industry standards and things that correct themselves and start working right again; TNA is throwing an out of sync hole into their finances and just declaring they'll work differently than every other gig they have. Which is why I mentioned start up businesses. A large corporation has enough clauses to easily not place another order with the small indie business, or it may not have regular orders at all. I see wrestlers are independent businesses in a very similar vein. Adjustments have to be made. If they don't have regular work from TNA, why bother clearing out your schedule if you're going to make instant, consistent money elsewhere?
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 12, 2018 16:23:02 GMT -5
That doesn't make it a good thing though? Especially because TNA doesn't keep people coming back for more every six week to settle into a rhythm with it, it's an erratic schedule and it could be two months, could be three and a half. And it stands in contrast to everything else about their work where they're paid up front for what they're doing everywhere else. What you're comparing it to corrects itself in time because you keep working, you have an employer. These people don't, they show up, have to make sure they have a week's worth of shows cleared out in their schedule, maybe don't get used on all them and lose some time they could spend taking bookings who'll pay them up ahead of time, and have to juggle their finances around the week-long hole in the middle. Like it's spelled out in the OP why people are upset, and it's not because of industry standards and things that correct themselves and start working right again; TNA is throwing an out of sync hole into their finances and just declaring they'll work differently than every other gig they have. Which is why I mentioned start up businesses. A large corporation has enough clauses to easily not place another order with the small indie business, or it may not have regular orders at all. I see wrestlers are independent businesses in a very similar vein. Adjustments have to be made. If they don't have regular work from TNA, why bother clearing out your schedule if you're going to make instant, consistent money elsewhere? Well that's why people are upset; this is some new change shit dropping onto them, and it's not like TNA hasn't lost people up and down the spectrum of star power to pay issues in the past.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Feb 12, 2018 16:30:06 GMT -5
Which is why I mentioned start up businesses. A large corporation has enough clauses to easily not place another order with the small indie business, or it may not have regular orders at all. I see wrestlers are independent businesses in a very similar vein. Adjustments have to be made. If they don't have regular work from TNA, why bother clearing out your schedule if you're going to make instant, consistent money elsewhere? Well that's why people are upset; this is some new change shit dropping onto them, and it's not like TNA hasn't lost people up and down the spectrum of star power to pay issues in the past. I get its f***ing with people's livelihoods and a plethora of talent have parted ways with them. All I am saying is a six week payment structure isn't uncommon and has always been used by WWE, even before downside guarantees were a thing. Bret Hart recalls in his autobiography that he had to return early from sternum injury because the $150 a week medical allowance Vince McMahon paid wasn't enough for his family to live on. Even then, he'd have to wait weeks for the checks to come in.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 12, 2018 16:35:41 GMT -5
Well that's why people are upset; this is some new change shit dropping onto them, and it's not like TNA hasn't lost people up and down the spectrum of star power to pay issues in the past. I get its f***ing with people's livelihoods and a plethora of talent have parted ways with them. All I am saying is a six week payment structure isn't uncommon and has always been used by WWE, even before downside guarantees were a thing. Bret Hart recalls in his autobiography that he had to return early from sternum injury because the $150 a week medical allowance Vince McMahon paid wasn't enough for his family to live on. Even then, he'd have to wait weeks for the checks to come in. Right but Bret didn't have to work a week, wait for the check to come in, then go back to work two months later. That's the difference here. It's not a full-time pay structure, it's one specific company of the many these people work for who is doing something completely different, and without the constant, full time nature of the work. It's not a problem the first time it happens, it's a problem every time it happens. WWE will put you to week all year around, it's only a problem there once.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Feb 12, 2018 18:09:53 GMT -5
I get its f***ing with people's livelihoods and a plethora of talent have parted ways with them. All I am saying is a six week payment structure isn't uncommon and has always been used by WWE, even before downside guarantees were a thing. Bret Hart recalls in his autobiography that he had to return early from sternum injury because the $150 a week medical allowance Vince McMahon paid wasn't enough for his family to live on. Even then, he'd have to wait weeks for the checks to come in. Right but Bret didn't have to work a week, wait for the check to come in, then go back to work two months later. That's the difference here. It's not a full-time pay structure, it's one specific company of the many these people work for who is doing something completely different, and without the constant, full time nature of the work. It's not a problem the first time it happens, it's a problem every time it happens. WWE will put you to week all year around, it's only a problem there once. There was also the factor that Vince McMahon offered opportunities not guarantees at the time. Bret Hart, as an example, may have had consistent work but he was only guaranteed 10 matches at $110 a piece like everyone else. He lived in constant awareness that he could be cut at any time from the moment he got there, therefore the paychecks stop immediately. The underlying issue is the carny structure of pro-wrestling, combined with the whimsical mismanagement of TNA, not the six week payment structure. From the company point of view, it makes business sense. Vince McMahon pays much later than the day because payoffs sit in high interest bank accounts so he makes some off the top before paying his wrestlers. I doubt TNA have the same foresight, but it may be the reason to change payment plans, especially if things are tight financially.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 12, 2018 18:27:34 GMT -5
Right but Bret didn't have to work a week, wait for the check to come in, then go back to work two months later. That's the difference here. It's not a full-time pay structure, it's one specific company of the many these people work for who is doing something completely different, and without the constant, full time nature of the work. It's not a problem the first time it happens, it's a problem every time it happens. WWE will put you to week all year around, it's only a problem there once. There was also the factor that Vince McMahon offered opportunities not guarantees at the time. Bret Hart, as an example, may have had consistent work but he was only guaranteed 10 matches at $110 a piece like everyone else. He lived in constant awareness that he could be cut at any time from the moment he got there, therefore the paychecks stop immediately. The underlying issue is the carny structure of pro-wrestling, combined with the whimsical mismanagement of TNA, not the six week payment structure. From the company point of view, it makes business sense. Vince McMahon pays much later than the day because payoffs sit in high interest bank accounts so he makes some off the top before paying his wrestlers. I doubt TNA have the same foresight, but it may be the reason to change payment plans, especially if things are tight financially. Vince McMahon can do it because he pays you guaranteed money base and six months later you get money for the date you work on top of the guaranteed money. Bret's old pay structure isn't comparable to how WWE operates right now, and TNA is no WWE. The 'carny structure of pro wrestling' isn't the issue if every other date these people work is paid day of. That's the problem here; TNA is booking people as an indie but trying to act like they're something different, and all the actual indie workers who are getting treated like it's all cool aren't happy because of that. If Bret got cut, he'd be out and be able to find new work. Nobody would be stopping him from working. But when he did work, he was paid on a rigid, straightforward schedule. Bret never had to worry about Vince going "Oh hey so every seventh week I'm going to pay you six weeks later than normal and you just have to sort that shit out financially". The lack of consistency and the problem it opens up in peoples' finances getting skewed is the issue here. TNA's six week payment structure is entirely the problem.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Feb 12, 2018 18:52:03 GMT -5
There was also the factor that Vince McMahon offered opportunities not guarantees at the time. Bret Hart, as an example, may have had consistent work but he was only guaranteed 10 matches at $110 a piece like everyone else. He lived in constant awareness that he could be cut at any time from the moment he got there, therefore the paychecks stop immediately. The underlying issue is the carny structure of pro-wrestling, combined with the whimsical mismanagement of TNA, not the six week payment structure. From the company point of view, it makes business sense. Vince McMahon pays much later than the day because payoffs sit in high interest bank accounts so he makes some off the top before paying his wrestlers. I doubt TNA have the same foresight, but it may be the reason to change payment plans, especially if things are tight financially. Vince McMahon can do it because he pays you guaranteed money base and six months later you get money for the date you work on top of the guaranteed money. Bret's old pay structure isn't comparable to how WWE operates right now, and TNA is no WWE. The 'carny structure of pro wrestling' isn't the issue if every other date these people work is paid day of. That's the problem here; TNA is booking people as an indie but trying to act like they're something different, and all the actual indie workers who are getting treated like it's all cool aren't happy because of that. If Bret got cut, he'd be out and be able to find new work. Nobody would be stopping him from working. But when he did work, he was paid on a rigid, straightforward schedule. Bret never had to worry about Vince going "Oh hey so every seventh week I'm going to pay you six weeks later than normal and you just have to sort that shit out financially". The lack of consistency and the problem it opens up in peoples' finances getting skewed is the issue here. TNA's six week payment structure is entirely the problem. Wrestling is still a carny operation for the most part. Have a look at Lance Storm's website archive. He dedicated an article a week to every promoter he ever worked for. Pretty much everyone short-changed him on pay, WCW and WWE included, in one form or another. In the indies, his last leaving bout in a territory was almost guaranteed to never be paid for. The check is in the post but the post never arrives scenario. The best promoter he ever worked for was a casino operator who ran wrestling as an attraction to his punters, and had no love for it, but treated the wrestlers fairly and paid on time, everytime. TNA is an extreme example of short changing wrestlers, but the carny structure is entrenched in the business model.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 12, 2018 18:55:37 GMT -5
Vince McMahon can do it because he pays you guaranteed money base and six months later you get money for the date you work on top of the guaranteed money. Bret's old pay structure isn't comparable to how WWE operates right now, and TNA is no WWE. The 'carny structure of pro wrestling' isn't the issue if every other date these people work is paid day of. That's the problem here; TNA is booking people as an indie but trying to act like they're something different, and all the actual indie workers who are getting treated like it's all cool aren't happy because of that. If Bret got cut, he'd be out and be able to find new work. Nobody would be stopping him from working. But when he did work, he was paid on a rigid, straightforward schedule. Bret never had to worry about Vince going "Oh hey so every seventh week I'm going to pay you six weeks later than normal and you just have to sort that shit out financially". The lack of consistency and the problem it opens up in peoples' finances getting skewed is the issue here. TNA's six week payment structure is entirely the problem. Wrestling is still a carny operation for the most part. Have a look at Lance Storm's website archive. He dedicated an article a week to every promoter he ever worked for. Pretty much everyone short-changed him on pay, WCW and WWE included, in one form or another. In the indies, his last leaving bout in a territory was almost guaranteed to never be paid for. The check is in the post but the post never arrives scenario. The best promoter he ever worked for was a casino operator who ran wrestling as an attraction to his punters, and had no love for it, but treated the wrestlers fairly and paid on time, everytime. TNA is an extreme example of short changing wrestlers, but the carny structure is entrenched in the business model. Sure but that doesn't mean the thing at fault here isn't TNA's pay structure, like your post actually said. TNA dropping the ball and changing things up on people mid-stream while expecting people to treat them as a priority booking is entirely on TNA and it's right for people to be mad specifically at TNA. When a promoter screws you that's their failing, regardless of whether the business on the whole is carny nonsense.
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