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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on May 12, 2018 22:51:11 GMT -5
I'm just curious on where people draw the line for things like this. Pro wrestling doesn't need to be covered by legitimate sports outlets, and nor should it be. If TV Guide want to cover storylines and match results, that'd be fine and dandy. |
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Post by sportatorium on May 12, 2018 23:18:16 GMT -5
I don’t understand what Meltzer’s problem is beyond the fact that if SI & ESPN etc start covering wrestling, he becomes a dinosaur even more quickly.
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wgdj
AC Slater
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Post by wgdj on May 12, 2018 23:32:48 GMT -5
I don’t understand what Meltzer’s problem is beyond the fact that if SI & ESPN etc start covering wrestling, he becomes a dinosaur even more quickly. This is the exact reason he has a problem with it. Without kayfabe, what's the point of wrestling? |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on May 12, 2018 23:37:37 GMT -5
I don’t understand what Meltzer’s problem is beyond the fact that if SI & ESPN etc start covering wrestling, he becomes a dinosaur even more quickly. This is the exact reason he has a problem with it. Without kayfabe, what's the point of wrestling? Kayfabe is dead and has been for decades. It's universally known and accepted that the performers are playing characters, so it makes no sense for them to continue playing those characters when they're doing media appearances. Frankly, it comes across cringeworthy and embarrassing. Let kayfabe exist within the confines of WWE-produced content, and leave it there. |
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on May 12, 2018 23:38:22 GMT -5
I don’t understand what Meltzer’s problem is beyond the fact that if SI & ESPN etc start covering wrestling, he becomes a dinosaur even more quickly. Or maybe Meltzer, as a decades-long vet of reporting on wrestling, knows of the time when in-kayfabe magazines were around and has feelings about the nature of kayfabe reporting and the idea of mainstream professional press being used as a mouthpiece by the company when they're fed kayfabe lines for free promotion. The fact mainstream sports retains this weird semi-kayfabe thing is arguably better for Meltzer, because it's if insider reporting became the mainstream mode for journalism on WWE that he would suddenly be facing an uphill battle. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave on May 12, 2018 23:39:38 GMT -5
feh... not really good or bad per say... but like mentioned if they do Out of character interviews with people and legitimate news mixed with in character and storyline stuff it's stupid and more of the Russo Pseudo-shooting that makes it nearly impossible to care about anything. ditto about social media... you're going to live the gimmick on social media... live the gimmick and don't half ass it and mix it in with stuff that is obviously not in gimmick. This is the exact reason he has a problem with it. Without kayfabe, what's the point of wrestling? Kayfabe is dead and has been for decades. It's universally known and accepted that the performers are playing characters, so it makes no sense for them to continue playing those characters when they're doing media appearances. Frankly, it comes across cringeworthy and embarrassing. Let kayfabe exist within the confines of WWE-produced content, and leave it there. even when people talk about Kayfabe and how respected it was in the 80's... pretty much everyone already knew it was bullshit. and it was like that for years before the 80s... hell in 1920 a wrestling promoter gave an interview and said "yeah, wrestling's fixed" it was even picked up coast to coast by newspapers... but most people didn't particular seem to care. (probably because everything was fixed.. I mean... Black Socks anyone?) With the rise of the internet and all information being available at anyones fingertips... there is no way in hell kayfabe could survive even if they all went full walls up on everything again, the only thing you need is for like every other show to allow people to suspend disbelief during the show... which means no shit like Roman talking about... not being SMARTENED UP! to Brock Lesnar signing a new contract... because in the terms of the story... Brock having a contract doesn't suddenly make him a better wrestler. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2018 0:04:10 GMT -5
I don’t understand what Meltzer’s problem is beyond the fact that if SI & ESPN etc start covering wrestling, he becomes a dinosaur even more quickly. This is the exact reason he has a problem with it. Without kayfabe, what's the point of wrestling? To entertain? I don't remotely see why one would need to pretend it's real to enjoy it. So long as it's treated as being completely real during the show anyway, but even that's asking a lot of WWE these days. |
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on May 13, 2018 0:39:58 GMT -5
But that's also the reason that legit news outlets need to play along with kayfabe a bit. If you were to interview an actor in, say, Game of Thrones, you wouldn't ignore "Game of Thrones" in that interview and you would try to ask them to bring non-viewers up to speed about who their character is and what they did on the show. By the same token, if you're interviewing a pro wrestler, it's fair to have the wrestler play up their current storyline and feud for what they're currently doing on TV and why it's something you might want to pay attention to. True, but in that case at least openly talk about it from the perspective of the performer, like, "How do you feel about this current storyline?" or something. A reporter asking Miz what he plans to do when Bryan finally gets his hands on him is about like if one of them asked Chris Hemsworth what he plans to do to stop Thanos. But that is also a weird difference between sports and entertainment where pro wrestling blurs the lines as well. A reporter asking Miz what he plans to do when Bryan gets his hands on him IS like if someone asks Chris Hemsworth what he plans to do to stop Thanos, yes. But in a sports world...newsflash to sports fans: Your favorite team? The team that's your favorite team's arch-rivals that you absolutely despise on general principle...? They probably don't REALLY hate each other on general principle based on the laundry that they're wearing. There's actually probably a few players on that other team they actually get along really well with and consider friends and are happy to go there so they can see them and catch up. But if you were to interview a player going into this big series, they're going to say "Yeah, I hate those guys, and we're going into this series to beat them down and destroy them- their team has nothing compared to us, and we're going to kick their asses." Why's it any different for pro wrestling? |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2018 0:41:27 GMT -5
True, but in that case at least openly talk about it from the perspective of the performer, like, "How do you feel about this current storyline?" or something. A reporter asking Miz what he plans to do when Bryan finally gets his hands on him is about like if one of them asked Chris Hemsworth what he plans to do to stop Thanos. But that is also a weird difference between sports and entertainment where pro wrestling blurs the lines as well. A reporter asking Miz what he plans to do when Bryan gets his hands on him IS like if someone asks Chris Hemsworth what he plans to do to stop Thanos, yes. But in a sports world...newsflash to sports fans: Your favorite team? The team that's your favorite team's arch-rivals that you absolutely despise on general principle...? They probably don't REALLY hate each other on general principle based on the laundry that they're wearing. There's actually probably a few players on that other team they actually get along really well with and consider friends and are happy to go there so they can see them and catch up. But if you were to interview a player going into this big series, they're going to say "Yeah, I hate those guys, and we're going into this series to beat them down and destroy them- their team has nothing compared to us, and we're going to kick their asses." Why's it any different for pro wrestling? Because wrestling isn't a competitive sport? I really think it should just straight-up be presented as one would a TV show or, perhaps more appropriately given the vast ensemble and the live performance aspect, a play. |
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Post by Cyno on May 13, 2018 2:04:04 GMT -5
I'd rather legitimate journalists treat wrestling as it really is rather than play along with kayfabe. Not that they should be saying "LOL IT'S FAKE" every article, but it really kills credibility from a journalistic standpoint to pretend kayfabe is real. Leave that to the likes of WWE.com.
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Post by Old Jack Burton on May 13, 2018 3:17:53 GMT -5
Comparisons of wrestling to movies or television shows never quite work out right. Wrestling is wrestling. One of the reasons I love it are the in-character interviews in the media.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2018 6:23:08 GMT -5
Comparisons of wrestling to movies or television shows never quite work out right. Wrestling is wrestling. One of the reasons I love it are the in-character interviews in the media. Completely agree. I would love to see more kayfabe WWE coverage in the mainstream media. |
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Post by 111111 on May 13, 2018 8:15:17 GMT -5
Comparisons of wrestling to movies or television shows never quite work out right. Wrestling is wrestling. One of the reasons I love it are the in-character interviews in the media. Completely agree. I would love to see more kayfabe WWE coverage in the mainstream media. Kayfabe is literally carny for "fake" So you're essentially asking for more "Fake News"? |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2018 8:27:54 GMT -5
Kayfabe should only reside on the shows but WWE is so f***ing clown shoes that they can't even keep kayfabe on their own shows on a week to week basis so to me it is even more laughable that they would go out and do in character interviews.
The only company currently doing Kayfabe in a way that it could only be done right now is Lucha Underground because what happens in the world they have created stays in that world , no one does in character interviews and their storylines do not crossover into any other company.
Although I look forward to SI amusing me and trying to interview Matanza from his prison about his cannibalistic diet only for the interviewer to never be seen again.
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Post by Yamashita Enforcement Division on May 13, 2018 10:01:23 GMT -5
Unless this was OBVIOUSLY PRESENTED as in-character, Meltzer is completely right. I mean, they don't have to say "this is fake," but you should be able to clearly tell the difference in the presentation. A kayfabe interview with "the Miz" works as an ad for WWE, and there's nothing wrong with that. An interview with Mike Mizanin about life on the road, what he hopes to be remembered for, etc., is more along the lines of what you'd expect out of "legitimate" journalism. I need to point out that, there is in fact everything wrong with journalists only working as advertising for something they claim to be covering, it is in fact one of the biggest things in the modern age of journalism and is something that has been wrestled with ethically since the money ran out on ad-revenue pushed, corporate journalism. Like Meltzer's point in the tweet's quoted in the op, and elsewhere in his little half-meltdown, he object's to Sports Illustrated covering wrestling by writing in-character puff pieces, not because they are puff pieces or because they clearly follow the WWE's lead on information, but because Sports Illustrated is seen as a 'legitimate news source' and is making its original reporting suspect. |
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Post by Prince Petty on May 13, 2018 10:38:21 GMT -5
Wait, they used "quotes that were in character?" So? If the quotes they used were the quotes Miz gave, it's not on SI to decide whether they were kayfabe or not.
That Miz decided to do an interview in character is questionable, given that most fans are now fully aware that the on-screen product is no more real than than a soap opera. But it seems like the only real attempts the WWE makes at keeping kayfabe now are these sort of ambiguous, competitive catfights about who's "better".
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Post by Hot Noodle Truck on May 13, 2018 10:44:14 GMT -5
I don't see the issue with it, everyone that watches wrestling knows what it is anyway. I find it pretty amusing when major outlets go along with the characters and the stories they're trying to tell, they do it all the time with actors. I think the fans need some kayfabe back in their lives, some of y'all suck the fun straight out of this stuff.
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Post by Milkman Norm on May 13, 2018 10:58:07 GMT -5
Awful. There is no reason for it and make the outlets looks like a bunch of idiot marks.
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Post by Cyno on May 13, 2018 12:03:05 GMT -5
I don't see the issue with it, everyone that watches wrestling knows what it is anyway. I find it pretty amusing when major outlets go along with the characters and the stories they're trying to tell, they do it all the time with actors. I think the fans need some kayfabe back in their lives, some of y'all suck the fun straight out of this stuff. And that's fine when it's limited to WWE.com or the Apter rags back in the day. When it's more legitimate outlets like Sports Illustrated or ESPN going along with kayfabe, it's a lot more problematic for a number of reasons. |
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Post by Hot Noodle Truck on May 13, 2018 12:15:31 GMT -5
I don't see the issue with it, everyone that watches wrestling knows what it is anyway. I find it pretty amusing when major outlets go along with the characters and the stories they're trying to tell, they do it all the time with actors. I think the fans need some kayfabe back in their lives, some of y'all suck the fun straight out of this stuff. And that's fine when it's limited to WWE.com or the Apter rags back in the day. When it's more legitimate outlets like Sports Illustrated or ESPN going along with kayfabe, it's a lot more problematic for a number of reasons. Why is that though? Not trying to be standoff-ish or anything, I'm just not seeing why that would be such an issue. Is it due to the illegitimate nature of wrestling or does it go deeper than that? I just think that just about everyone is in on the joke, so to speak, so what's the harm of these places playing along? |
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