Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,145
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 17, 2018 7:45:22 GMT -5
Basically, someone who's a heel purely because he doesn't like what the fans like.
-He's friends with guys who the fans hate (eg : Roman, Cass).
-He defends low-talent guys and girls (eg : Cass, Dana Brooke, Jinder) in actual in-ring promos and in interviews.
-He denounces social media, and doesn't have any particular geek interests.
Basically, there's not necessarily anything wrong with him, he's just so completely incompatible with the personality traits of the hardcore fanbase that they'll find his presence untenable.
And eventually he starts to complain about it.
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
Fry's dog Seymour
GIFs | Shitposts | Fun
Posts: 24,412
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on May 17, 2018 7:53:40 GMT -5
I want Bayley to turn heel but suck at it, like Butters as Professor Chaos Give her Jazzy Gabert as an over-the-top vicious henchman that even Bayley is scared of Bayley as Professor Chaos.....
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the2ndevil
Grimlock
Super Seducer Survivor
Where Is Your Santa, Now?
Posts: 13,629
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Post by the2ndevil on May 17, 2018 8:01:58 GMT -5
Basically, someone who's a heel purely because he doesn't like what the fans like. -He's friends with guys who the fans hate (eg : Roman, Cass). -He defends low-talent guys and girls (eg : Cass, Dana Brooke, Jinder) in actual in-ring promos and in interviews. -He denounces social media, and doesn't have any particular geek interests. Basically, there's not necessarily anything wrong with him, he's just so completely incompatible with the personality traits of the hardcore fanbase that they'll find his presence untenable. And eventually he starts to complain about it. You probably could have just said “he’s a poster on a wrestling message board”. 🤪
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,145
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 17, 2018 8:03:20 GMT -5
Basically, someone who's a heel purely because he doesn't like what the fans like. -He's friends with guys who the fans hate (eg : Roman, Cass). -He defends low-talent guys and girls (eg : Cass, Dana Brooke, Jinder) in actual in-ring promos and in interviews. -He denounces social media, and doesn't have any particular geek interests. Basically, there's not necessarily anything wrong with him, he's just so completely incompatible with the personality traits of the hardcore fanbase that they'll find his presence untenable. And eventually he starts to complain about it. You probably could have just said “he’s a poster on a wrestling message board”. 🤪 Not exactly, since he's pretty much against what 85-90% of those people would be for.
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Post by sunnytaker on May 17, 2018 8:52:24 GMT -5
This would be tricky, but someone who takes the internal logic of wrestling and exploits it. Like, they don't break the fourth wall, but they realize stuff that has them constantly deny the audience narrative satisfaction. Like, if they have a personal issue with someone, they know that beating them in a wrestling match doesn't remotely solve the issue. So they refuse to have blow-off matches because they know it wouldn't solve anything. Or like, the commissioner puts them in a match with someone like Strowman to punish them, and the dude just forfeits the match and leaves, because why on earth even have that fight? They interview them later, "Uh, it's not like I get anything if I win, so who cares?" And the Royal Rumble or the MitB match have rules that are just dyyyyiiiing to be exploited in this way. Dude, just hang out in the audience or something while everyone tumbles off of ladders, and then after each big spot, run up and try to get the briefcase. If anyone comes near, run away again. Repeat until you finally win. that was the one thing I really liked about magnus' TNA title run. he would constantly tap out to submission moves right away all the time and when his partner or someone backstage would ask him about it he'd always say something to the effect of "hey the title's not on the line. why should I face suffering an injury by staying in that hold too long?" while on the subject of the "one thing I liked about" title runs. del rio for those two or three weeks after one of his wwe title wins where he was under the delusion that the people were cheering for him and not his opponent and would occasionally try to tell the fans that "<wrestler> isn't so bad, you shouldn't be booing him". side note- I also enjoyed the random two or three week period every year for about 3 straight years where they would randomly attempt to pair him up with the bellas, nothing ever came of it and 12 months later they'd do the same thing again.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on May 17, 2018 13:03:39 GMT -5
I don't know about openly exploiting the rules but i like what you are saying. This would force WWE to give out kayfabe reasons why the match should matter (winner's purse/fines) and so compell us to watch the match rather than consistently go "well it's a hell in the cell, why turn up for it? You could get injured" As a slimey heel trying to back out it works. As a lol common sense heel it might fall flat unless you understand exactly how to walk that line. See Punk, CM. I think there's two ways to go with this: One is the "one sane man" schtick, where one person (usually a bad-guy lackey who doesn't have any power to decide what happens) makes side comments along these lines, which are ignored by his boss. This would work better in something like NXT, though. But I think the way it would actually work is by playing on this assumption of honor in the WWE. Like, YES, you COULD just immediately forfeit any match that doesn't matter. You COULD hang out backstage through the entire Royal Rumble and then just walk out at the end to eliminate the exhausted winner. You COULD handcuff all the other MitB participants. You COULD just pick a fight with a champion and get yourself a PPV match even though you don't have a winning record. But you're not supposed to, because you're supposed to have some degree of HONOR in this business; some kind of assumption of good faith, some actual investment in Who's The Better Man. So I think this kind of thing would work with a self-hating, burn-it-down kind of despair-heel.
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
Fun while it lasted
Posts: 38,509
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on May 17, 2018 13:44:30 GMT -5
Basically, someone who's a heel purely because he doesn't like what the fans like. -He's friends with guys who the fans hate (eg : Roman, Cass). -He defends low-talent guys and girls (eg : Cass, Dana Brooke, Jinder) in actual in-ring promos and in interviews. -He denounces social media, and doesn't have any particular geek interests. Basically, there's not necessarily anything wrong with him, he's just so completely incompatible with the personality traits of the hardcore fanbase that they'll find his presence untenable. And eventually he starts to complain about it. ....I'm calling gimmick infringement.
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Jobes
Unicron
Posts: 3,199
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Post by Jobes on May 17, 2018 14:09:05 GMT -5
I've always wanted a heel to win the Royal Rumble by entering at #30 after every other competitor had eliminated themselves.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on May 17, 2018 18:11:08 GMT -5
The WWE basically does it with the Jericho/etc. school of heels, but it'd probably work well if a heel were to just come right out and say they're not trying to entertain the fans.
WWE basically does it with the "have them take away anything that the fans cheer about them anyway and cut I...talk...slow...promos", but having a heel who comes right out and says "Look. Why should I want to entertain fans when I can't stand them anyway? I'm here to win the match, and that's all I care about and I don't really care if you have a good time tonight as long as I win."
Have the person try to finish people quickly, with basic moves, never letting up on the face or give them an opportunity to show what they can do in the ring (why would you LET someone attack you, anyway?). If they must cut a promo after they make it clear this is what they're doing, the promo is inevitably short and to the point "I'm going to beat you in that match", with no catchphrases or even interesting points about it.
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pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
Three Time FAN Idol Champion
@PulpPictionary
Posts: 8,748
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Post by pegasuswarrior on May 17, 2018 18:19:28 GMT -5
1. Intentionally OTT attempt at heeling and missing the mark Example: "Hey Britian, I know why you guys don't like me [dramatic pause] It's because [super dramatic pause] I DON'T LIKE THE QUEEN. Woah...yeah, I said it, deal with it! Oh and another thing...I don't care for Manchester United [over the top "did I just say that?" face] 2. Effectively the exact opposite - Misguided attempts at cheap pops. Example: Say it's a show in Dublin. "Hello London, I'm so glad to be here!!!" *Massive boo's from the crowd* Vince, that you? Hey, how’s it going?
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on May 17, 2018 18:40:33 GMT -5
A match fixing gimmick.
It might be too meta, but it also could be a way to sort of push the reboot button on wrestling as a whole and establish a new kayfabe.
Basically, some lowercard wrestler whistleblows that actually, management/a big shot wrestler has been fixing matches, bribing officials & opponents to throw matches, ala boxing/football scandals, and it turns out it's true. You instantly can turn a big time main event face into a hated heel, who you never know if he's gonna bribe his way to a win, you can never trust his matches, and that makes you hate him even more because you dont know if you can trust the guy you like who is wrestling him, and it plays on the "beloved fan favourite is held back" trope in a new way.
In a similar vein, I always felt the best way to turn DDP heel would have been if he won the title as a face and had a run on top, then youd had someone like a Chris Jericho during his CONSPIRACY! gimmick, claim that DDP is actually the real genius behind the NWO with his ties to Hall, Nash & Bischoff, it's laughed off at first until DDP is all "Youre goddamn right" and Diamond Cuts Jericho, revealing that his man of the people shtick was all a ploy and he engineered the nWo specifically to have a dragon for him to slay and become a folk hero main eventer after years toiling in the lowercard.
Basically I think there's always mileage for elevating guys as top heels down the disingenous wolf in sheep's clothing route. Evil genius chessmasters always make for a good villain in fiction.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 19:54:20 GMT -5
I’ve always wanted a heel, on the verge of losing an I Quit Match To grab a child from the front row, threaten said child with violence, forcing the face to quit to save the child. Imagine that being the way a heel won the WWE Championship. The heat would be massive. that's such a good idea. Somebody has to have done it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 20:01:08 GMT -5
You want heel heat?
Youtuber gimmick. Not like Zack Ryder, I'm talking the most f***ing obnoxious one you can think of. Zack Ryder.
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Lt. Palumbo
Hank Scorpio
On again off again watcher of a wrestling TV show
Posts: 6,067
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Post by Lt. Palumbo on May 17, 2018 20:10:03 GMT -5
1. Intentionally OTT attempt at heeling and missing the mark Example: "Hey Britian, I know why you guys don't like me [dramatic pause] It's because [super dramatic pause] I DON'T LIKE THE QUEEN. Woah...yeah, I said it, deal with it! Oh and another thing...I don't care for Manchester United [over the top "did I just say that?" face] 2. Effectively the exact opposite - Misguided attempts at cheap pops. Example: Say it's a show in Dublin. "Hello London, I'm so glad to be here!!!" *Massive boo's from the crowd* Vince, that you? Hey, how’s it going? I think if you think it's Vince-ish you're reading me wrong. Number 1 is intentionally OTT. Ever heard about Dustin Rhodes' stand-up a year or two back? He's all "I'm ambiguously gay and that scares you!!!" and then a plant stands up and says "Nah, it's cool, it's 2016" but Dustin keeps trying to push it. Kinda like that. Number 2 is like an inverted "your town sucks", he's trying to say "I like your town" but f***s it up. There was some country music act that appeared in Dublin the other year and in a misguided attempt to ingratiate himself to the crowd, put a 100ft Union Jack on the video screen. Needless to say there was a chorus of boos and the dude was bewildered. That's the kind of thing I'm suggesting here.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on May 17, 2018 20:18:59 GMT -5
Number 2 is like an inverted "your town sucks", he's trying to say "I like your town" but f***s it up. There was some country music act that appeared in Dublin the other year and in a misguided attempt to ingratiate himself to the crowd, put a 100ft Union Jack on the video screen. Needless to say there was a chorus of boos and the dude was bewildered. That's the kind of thing I'm suggesting here. But honestly, that's kind of the weakness since I'd argue a gimmick like that would not only not be "heel schtick that you'd want to see", but I'd go further and say the concept of someone who's trying to be liked by the fans, but for whatever reason is just incredibly, incredibly awkward and ends up saying or doing the wrong thing to make it happen would probably get really over as a BABYFACE by the crowd instead.
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the2ndevil
Grimlock
Super Seducer Survivor
Where Is Your Santa, Now?
Posts: 13,629
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Post by the2ndevil on May 17, 2018 20:19:17 GMT -5
I’ve always wanted a heel, on the verge of losing an I Quit Match To grab a child from the front row, threaten said child with violence, forcing the face to quit to save the child. Imagine that being the way a heel won the WWE Championship. The heat would be massive. that's such a good idea. Somebody has to have done it. Thanks. 😎 I’ve had this idea ever since the Miz and Cena one in 2011. You’re never going to beat him into saying I Quit, but if SuperCena has a Kryptonite, it’s children and the fact he’s the number one wish granter in Make A Wish history. Whole thing would be made better if the crowd started chanting “That’s a lawsuit!”
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 20:19:17 GMT -5
Guy who is pretty disliked already gets a transgender gimmick, wins the women's title and a mens title, say the US now that the IC is basically the top belt on Raw.
They're revealed to have been faking it. Have real legit transgender face win the titles off the fake person, they get over and progress is made.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 20:20:33 GMT -5
that's such a good idea. Somebody has to have done it. Thanks. 😎 I’ve had this idea ever since the Miz and Cena one in 2011. You’re never going to beat him into saying I Quit, but if SuperCena has a Kryptonite, it’s children and the fact he’s the number one wish granter in Make A Wish history. Whole thing would be made better if the crowd started chanting “That’s a lawsuit!” that would have been perfect. Great way to put Miz over as an evil MFer and the rock cena thing maybe even takes a backseat now. Good shit.
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Lt. Palumbo
Hank Scorpio
On again off again watcher of a wrestling TV show
Posts: 6,067
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Post by Lt. Palumbo on May 17, 2018 21:05:06 GMT -5
Number 2 is like an inverted "your town sucks", he's trying to say "I like your town" but f***s it up. There was some country music act that appeared in Dublin the other year and in a misguided attempt to ingratiate himself to the crowd, put a 100ft Union Jack on the video screen. Needless to say there was a chorus of boos and the dude was bewildered. That's the kind of thing I'm suggesting here. But honestly, that's kind of the weakness since I'd argue a gimmick like that would not only not be "heel schtick that you'd want to see", but I'd go further and say the concept of someone who's trying to be liked by the fans, but for whatever reason is just incredibly, incredibly awkward and ends up saying or doing the wrong thing to make it happen would probably get really over as a BABYFACE by the crowd instead. Well it specifically is heel schtick I'd like to see, not heel schtick everyone would like to see or heel scthick that would work forever, but that wasn't what I was asking for
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Nikki Heyman
Fry's dog Seymour
EXTREEEEEME Pony Manager
✬ Believe In The Fight ✬
Posts: 24,018
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Post by Nikki Heyman on May 18, 2018 7:43:15 GMT -5
I want a heel to try to get a title by wearing the green bodysuit and be introduced as Vacant
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