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Post by SirLucas on May 18, 2018 10:34:01 GMT -5
How far do you think he will get in WWE? I think he's a good talent in an oversaturated sea of other great talents. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends of being one of those guys who is known for being a good hand but most likely gets lost in the shuffle.
The main issue I see with him is his gimmick. The whole LGBT/androgynous based gimmick has been done to death in wrestling, going back to the Gorgeous George era to where I don't see this new incarnation as something special.
It's like ok, we get it, he's a heel because he acts effeminate in a tough guy sport. How many times has wrestling used that trope? But I feel the world is evolving where queer like mannerisms (if I can use that phrase) are no longer justifcation for wanting to boo someone.
With more tolerance for gender acceptance it would be great for once if the typical gay wrestler isn't always the bad guy. There seemed be a chance w a guy like Darren Young, where he could have been a serious openly gay wrestler, so for once the gay gimmick wrestlers arent always over the top flamboyant, annoying stereotypes.
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Post by SirLucas on May 18, 2018 10:43:07 GMT -5
But then again, just like the foreign heel gimmick, the effeminate heel gimmick is one that gets recycled throughout the ages .
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 18, 2018 10:44:28 GMT -5
He's one of those guys who'll look great in NXT, but die a death on the main roster because Vince/Hayes/Road Dogg don't get it. They won't understand the ambiguity or the psychological aspect and want to turn him into something blatant and not the least bit subtle.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 18, 2018 10:44:51 GMT -5
The only thing affeminate about him is his presentation. He’s your overly flamboyant character but they’ve done a great job in showing he backs up the shit he talks. He gets messed up in all his matches and he doesn’t shy away from confrontation
Now when he gets to the main roster will they play it up a little more. Sure but he can no doubt be a Rick Rude type of guy in terms of mind games if they want to make him “serious” which imo he’s already a serious character from an in ring standpoint.
If you give him just a glancing look you are missing the whole character by not actually watching him because they book him as tough and everything he does has a end goal (see getting Alistar Black to say his name and now coming after Ricochet to put him in his place)
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 18, 2018 10:49:15 GMT -5
The only thing affeminate about him is his presentation. He’s your overly flamboyant character but they’ve done a great job in showing he backs up the shit he talks. He gets messed up in all his matches and he doesn’t shy away from confrontation Now when he gets to the main roster will they play it up a little more. Sure but he can no doubt be a Rick Rude type of guy in terms of mind games if they want to make him “serious” which imo he’s already a serious character from an in ring standpoint. If you give him just a glancing look you are missing the whole character by not actually watching him because they book him as tough and everything he does has a end goal (see getting Alistar Black to say his name and now coming after Ricochet to put him in his place) TBH, I don't even think that Dream is all _that_ effeminate.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 18, 2018 10:51:11 GMT -5
The only thing affeminate about him is his presentation. He’s your overly flamboyant character but they’ve done a great job in showing he backs up the shit he talks. He gets messed up in all his matches and he doesn’t shy away from confrontation Now when he gets to the main roster will they play it up a little more. Sure but he can no doubt be a Rick Rude type of guy in terms of mind games if they want to make him “serious” which imo he’s already a serious character from an in ring standpoint. If you give him just a glancing look you are missing the whole character by not actually watching him because they book him as tough and everything he does has a end goal (see getting Alistar Black to say his name and now coming after Ricochet to put him in his place) TBH, I don't even think that Dream is all _that_ effeminate. That’s why I said it’s only in his presentation with the shirts, hats, and clothing in general. However, as I said that can be easily read as flamboyance which is the way I see it. He’s way more Rick Rude than he is Goldust
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 18, 2018 10:54:49 GMT -5
TBH, I don't even think that Dream is all _that_ effeminate. That’s why I said it’s only in his presentation with the shirts, hats, and clothing in general. However, as I said that can be easily read as flamboyance which is the way I see it. He’s way more Rick Rude than he is Goldust He kind of has that "aloof, disconnected glam-rock star" vibe to him, but with a less dated look.
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Post by Surfer Sandman on May 18, 2018 11:29:24 GMT -5
I love the guy compared to when he first showed up. He's got the character down pat and his ring skills are decent enough.
They should keep him the same character-wise but as a tweener or face instead. I know some people hate the flamboyant gimmicks but I don't see Goldust in him, I see polka dot Dusty.
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on May 18, 2018 11:39:28 GMT -5
I love the guy compared to when he first showed up. He's got the character down pat and his ring skills are decent enough. They should keep him the same character-wise but as a tweener or face instead. I know some people hate the flamboyant gimmicks but I don't see Goldust in him, I see polka dot Dusty. Considering this week's NXT they might be heading down that road.
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Post by RedSmile on May 18, 2018 11:58:14 GMT -5
How far do you think he will get in WWE? I think he's a good talent in an oversaturated sea of other great talents. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends of being one of those guys who is known for being a good hand but most likely gets lost in the shuffle. The main issue I see with him is his gimmick. The whole LGBT/androgynous based gimmick has been done to death in wrestling, going back to the Gorgeous George era to where I don't see this new incarnation as something special. It's like ok, we get it, he's a heel because he acts effeminate in a tough guy sport. How many times has wrestling used that trope? But I feel the world is evolving where queer like mannerisms (if I can use that phrase) are no longer justifcation for wanting to boo someone. With more tolerance for gender acceptance it would be great for once if the typical gay wrestler isn't always the bad guy. There seemed be a chance w a guy like Darren Young, where he could have been a serious openly gay wrestler, so for once the gay gimmick wrestlers arent always over the top flamboyant, annoying stereotypes. He's not effeminate, nor is he androgynous, nor does his sexuality play into his gimmick at all. He's a flamboyant guy, who has a massive ego and is kind of a sleezebag, but he's also not a coward. I also see more a combination of Prince and Dennis Rodman, with dashes of Goldust and Randy Orton in his mannerisms. Patrick Clark is only 22 years old (turns 23 in August), and he is just now coming into his own. The Velveteen Dream is a character that could probably be a future pillar of the upper mid-card, at the very least.
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Post by SCCB Was Told To Do Steroids on May 18, 2018 12:05:39 GMT -5
Honestly, I NEVER want him to reach the "main roster". They will destroy his gimmick.
VT gets better every week. The only way to showcase him is on NXT. Furthermore, of Trips is serious about NXT NOT being the "C" show, then he's fine where he is.
The gimmick is working. He is getting the reaction from the crowd. His in-ring style is an American Strong-Style breath of fresh air in the Land of the Indy Flippy-Dos. The only match I would have liked to see was him versus Almas, but... reasons.
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Post by Prince Petty on May 18, 2018 12:11:41 GMT -5
The main roster writers will just double, and then triple, down on one specific aspect of his character, and hammer it into the ground until people hate him. The WWE can't do nuance to save their lives, and no matter how great Dream is, Vince probably won't get why a handsome, muscular young man wants to be so "flamboyant".
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Post by cabbageboy on May 18, 2018 13:23:20 GMT -5
I dunno, this whole Ricochet storyline in NXT seems to be drifting into the whole Razor/Goldust area. I too didn't think of Velveteen as a gay gimmick or an effeminate heel at first (more of a Prince/Purple Rain gimmick). But yeah with some of his comments on how good Ricochet looks it seems like they are going down an all too obvious road.
On the main roster he'll be an IC/US level guy at best. It's tough to seriously push that sort of act to the main event.
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Post by bearned on May 18, 2018 13:58:34 GMT -5
The guy is super talented - he could be a future main eventer but a lot of that would probably depend on if Vince is still in charge when he gets there....
I love the character though. I hope they just keep evolving it over time. Like at first it was some sort of budget Chappelle Prince-lite and now it’s gotten a bit more fleshed out it’s a really interesting gimmick.
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Post by Heinz Doofenschmirtz on May 18, 2018 14:08:42 GMT -5
I think he and Dunne are the most likely to get ruined on the main roster. They won’t get the nuances of both characters.
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Post by Perfect Timing on May 18, 2018 14:22:33 GMT -5
It would be cool if they make him more like Goldust. He doesn't have to fondle them or anything, and the faces don't have to act so disgusted by him but a few love letters here, random gifts for his opponents and maybe even his own Perfume(big bottle like Rick Martel) could add some extra layers to his gimmick.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 18, 2018 15:46:57 GMT -5
It would be cool if they make him more like Goldust. He doesn't have to fondle them or anything, and the faces don't have to act so disgusted by him but a few love letters here, random gifts for his opponents and maybe even his own Perfume(big bottle like Rick Martel) could add some extra layers to his gimmick. Nah. Don't turn him into a stalker. That's a good way to ruin him.
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Post by Lt. Palumbo on May 18, 2018 16:08:32 GMT -5
I absolutely love him.
His mannerisms, his in ring, his obvious commitment to any feud he's been in. When he confronts someone I believe it. He tailors he's gear, psychology and the things he says to his opponent instead of just plugging in his spots and phrases.
My only gripe is the name. For me there's a cap to how seriously I can take someone who doesn't (at least at some stage in their character arch) have a first name. It'd be like if Randy Savage was just called Macho Man.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 18, 2018 17:06:53 GMT -5
I dunno, this whole Ricochet storyline in NXT seems to be drifting into the whole Razor/Goldust area. I too didn't think of Velveteen as a gay gimmick or an effeminate heel at first (more of a Prince/Purple Rain gimmick). But yeah with some of his comments on how good Ricochet looks it seems like they are going down an all too obvious road. On the main roster he'll be an IC/US level guy at best. It's tough to seriously push that sort of act to the main event.Which is why I compared him to someone like Rick Rude who he models himself after in certain aspects
In that regards he would have to give himself a more rugged look ala Rick Rude in WCW and add more aggression to his act and he will be fine
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on May 18, 2018 18:35:19 GMT -5
Speaking as a queer male, I love the Dream. I don't think the vaguely effeminate aspects of his character are homophobic at all. He's a heel because he's an asshole, and the fans both love booing him and give him face pops for doing awesome shit.
Braying asshole or not, it was obvious on Tough Enough that Clark is a student of the game. And you can tell that when they gave him this gimmick, he knew that it was his moment to Dustin Rhodes this shit and just wear that gimmick's skin every second that he was on camera. He *gets* what having this kind of gimmick is about, and while his moveset is not extraordinary and he occasionally botches (he's still green), the vast majority of his stuff isn't just done but executed pretty much perfectly.
Were it not for Kairi, Dream would have the best elbow drop in WWE. It's like it's from a textbook.
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