Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jun 9, 2018 18:29:37 GMT -5
A lot of it is the audience, honestly. With Hulk, half of the audience enjoys the storytelling dynamic of Bruce Banner struggling with this inner monster. They go for the story. Then there's the other half of the audience who just want to see Hulk wreck shit, despite there not being much story there. It's difficult to strike a good balance. I personally think the Ed Norton movie did find the right balance, but I know there are many who found it boring.
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Post by Wolf Hawkfield no1 NZ poster on Jun 9, 2018 18:37:20 GMT -5
I actually quite liked the 2008 reboot.
But yeah the 2003 film is terrible and it feels like Ang Lee made the mistake of thinking he was doing a character study piece rather than a movie about a angry giant green man who smashes shit up.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,916
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Post by Sephiroth on Jun 9, 2018 20:59:20 GMT -5
It was a combination of things really. Ang Lee had some interesting ideas that just weren't well-executed (the different shots sometimes looking like panels was a neat attempt that didn't really pan out). The script desperatedly needed some editing to trim it down and get rid of a lot of long periods of people sitting around talking. And this was that period in the early 2000s where comic book movies overall were still pretty meh and forgettable. Think in terms of something like the Affleck Daredevil which also had some good in it but was overall a pretty drab experience too. A lot of the visuals don't hold up well at all either. Hulk being a CGI character, they did the best they could and it was passable; it just hasn't aged well. And that climax where Bruce fights Absorbing Dad, you can't see a damned thing. For an example of the "idea vs execution", check this ridiculous scene out: And I think it wasn’t just how lousy the movie ended up turning out to be. It was how insane they went hyping and promoting it-only for it to turn out that lousy.
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Glitch
King Koopa
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
Watching you.
Posts: 12,716
Member is Online
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Post by Glitch on Jun 10, 2018 0:16:14 GMT -5
So is this also why we dont have She-Hulk?
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mystermystery
Dennis Stamp
Still in the White Hummer
Posts: 4,371
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Post by mystermystery on Jun 10, 2018 0:19:02 GMT -5
I own the novelization of the 2003 film. Read it before actually watching the movie. Made it better than most people's experiences.
I still understand why people hate it.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jun 10, 2018 0:30:59 GMT -5
Just wondering, but was the 2003 film really as bad as people said it was? No, it was great. The CGI is terrible, but honestly, all CGI is terrible. They made it more cartoony, which helped. I think what lost people is there's dark Shakespearean themes, but also simultaneously these silly shiny CGI monsters. But I'm like... uh yeah, that sounds like a comic book to me, awesome.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2018 0:47:52 GMT -5
I thought Norton was the perfect Banner and I loved the look of the Hulk in that film. Probably one of my favorite MCU films, but now they got the look and feel of a MCU down that rewatching it feels like I’m watching one of the Netflix shows where it’s connected but doesn’t look and feel like anything else.
I like Ruffalo, but he doesn’t seem like Banner to me. He doesn’t seem super smart or even that conflicted about turning into the Hulk. But like the awkward Avengers Hulk design, I’ve gotten used to both over these last few movies and seeing anything else now would be odd.
As for why it doesn’t work, it’s like watching the old Hulk cartoon. Every episode it feels like Banner is making some attempt at curing himself. After a few episodes it got a bit repetitive. That’s how I feel watching the movies, and why it’s so hard to make annother. But that’s pretty much the whole story arc of the Hulk.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jun 10, 2018 0:48:41 GMT -5
Universal don't release the rights to an IP they have acquired, even if they have no intention of ever using it again (to the best of my knowledge they've only ever done it once) Okay, have to ask - what was it they gave up?
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jun 10, 2018 1:24:25 GMT -5
Universal don't release the rights to an IP they have acquired, even if they have no intention of ever using it again (to the best of my knowledge they've only ever done it once) Okay, have to ask - what was it they gave up? They traded Oswald the Lucky Rabbit and all associated media back to Disney in exchange for NBC Sports acquiring the services of Al Michaels.
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67 more
King Koopa
He's just a Sexy Kurt
Posts: 11,503
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Post by 67 more on Jun 10, 2018 3:12:46 GMT -5
"Because brotha, Billionaire Ted promised me movies and Hollywood stardom brotha, but he lied brotha!" Oh. "I was meant to be Nick Fury, brother, but that no good Samuel L Jackson rerouted my phone line to his house, dude!"
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jun 10, 2018 3:17:07 GMT -5
Okay, have to ask - what was it they gave up? They traded Oswald the Lucky Rabbit and all associated media back to Disney in exchange for NBC Sports acquiring the services of Al Michaels. Ah, I knew that, shoulda remembered it.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,739
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Post by schma on Jun 10, 2018 17:32:59 GMT -5
I actually quite liked 2008 reboot. But yeah the 2003 film is terrible and it feels like Ang Lee made of mistake of thinking he was doing a character study piece rather than a movie about a angry giant green man who smashes shit up. It didn't help that the advertisements were almost entirely Hulk smashing shit. So people went into the movie expecting Hulk SMASH and got psychology. As others have mentioned that will always be the issue with a Hulk movie. Some want the psychology of the Banner/Hulk divide and how both sides deal with it, others just want Hulk being the strongest one there is and smashing the crap out of stuff. It's tough to get a decent mix though both solo Hulk movies have some merits (the first one had plenty of detriments).
Watchmen suffered from a similar issue where it was marketed as an action movie or traditional superhero movie when it is neither. Well it also suffered from them completely missing the point of the story but also the first thing.
For better or worse advertising campaigns and trailer affect expectations for people and if they're misleading, it typically leads to disappointment as people show up expecting one thing and get something else entirely.
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Post by Mr PONYMANIA Mr Jenzie on Jun 10, 2018 17:47:49 GMT -5
Just wondering, but was the 2003 film really as bad as people said it was? No, it was great. The CGI is terrible, but honestly, all CGI is terrible. They made it more cartoony, which helped. I think what lost people is there's dark Shakespearean themes, but also simultaneously these silly shiny CGI monsters. But I'm like... uh yeah, that sounds like a comic book to me, awesome. perfectly fit in to the movies' style ..... yeah it's not perfect and sometimes a bit bitty and not fully realised, and i think the speed of the cgi hulk was a tiny bit too SLOW! but i prefer the first one to TIH myself ..... same as the first two resident evil movies ..... really liked the bana-nolte dynamic, and that talk they had before the big fight at the end was really intense and were david banners dogs strays?
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Post by James Fabiano on Jun 10, 2018 18:12:39 GMT -5
But Bruce turning into the Hulk doesn't have to be the whole point. You could have him start off as the Hulk early in the film, return to Banner, have brief Hulk "flare-ups", and have Banner come back as the Hulk for the film's climax. It might work better in hour-long doses every week....crazy idea, I know...
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Goldenbane
Hank Scorpio
THE G.D. Goldenbane
Posts: 7,331
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Post by Goldenbane on Jun 10, 2018 18:43:13 GMT -5
I couldn't stand the Ang Lee Hulk movie. I couldn't understand a damn word Nick Nolte was saying in it, and even when he was yelling, he somehow managed to sound like he was mumbling. I was also still used to the Banner vs. Hulk dynamic, where Banner hated being Hulk, and vice versa...I think the normal comics were still doing that at the time, but the stupid Ultimate universe had all the "Sometimes...when I change...I LIKE it!" stuff. I think Ang Lee borrowed a little from that, and it took me out of it some. It also didn't hurt that I believe Lee wanted Thunderbolt Ross to be a sympathetic character...and maybe even right in the end...but I couldn't help but think he was as wrong as he always was in the comics. The character, even in the movie, always came off like an asshole war monger who can only "get hard" when he's dropping bombs and killing people by the hundreds. He wanted the Hulk...not for science, not to protect humanity, not to help Bruce...but so he could drop him on some village in some foreign country somewhere and watch him just devastate everything in a 5000 mile radius. I just can't root for that character...and maybe I'm not remembering right...and maybe he wasn't that way in the movie...but I just didn't see him as a good man.
I agree with everyone who has said Norton did a great job. His Hulk looked perfectly like the Hulk from the 70's and 80's that I loved so much. Ruffalo's Hulk looks too much like the "Green Gorilla" Hulk from the 2000's era. Also, with Ruffalo just about having complete control of when he changes and what he does as the Hulk, I can't help but feel "Meh, what's the point?" The Hulk being hunted and hounded is usually one of the biggest key elements of the character. You didn't need it in the 90's when he was cool smart professor Hulk, but unless you go there, you're missing out on a lot of what makes Hulk...well...the Hulk.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 10, 2018 20:02:51 GMT -5
See I much prefer either Prof Hulk where Banner is pretty much in control, or my personal favorite Mr. Fixit where they're openly antagonistic to one another. Hulk Smash from the seventies and eighties gets old for me QUICK.
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Goldenbane
Hank Scorpio
THE G.D. Goldenbane
Posts: 7,331
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Post by Goldenbane on Jun 10, 2018 20:14:16 GMT -5
See I much prefer either Prof Hulk where Banner is pretty much in control, or my personal favorite Mr. Fixit where they're openly antagonistic to one another. Hulk Smash from the seventies and eighties gets old for me QUICK. I love "Hulk Smash" but I understand (and agree) that seeing that over and over again does get dull quickly. Professor Hulk was definitely my favorite version. Mr. Fixit was too all over the place for me. One story I read with him, he was like an evil as hell mobster, then another story I read, he was a pretty good dude that tried to save a train full of people from Mr. Hyde, but was weak to/scared of sunlight. Sometimes it seemed if he was angry or hurt enough, his sunlight weakness went away, other times, it seemed like he lost power almost immediately if the tiniest ray of light touched him. I admit to not reading a whole lot of Fixit stories...as they just didn't appeal to me...but him being practically a villain just wasn't my thing. I liked him in the 90's Hulk cartoon, however.
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Post by DASH 243✅ on Jun 10, 2018 20:26:12 GMT -5
Am I the only one who read the title and thought how cool it would be with hulk hanging on the millennium falcon with chewy and han solo?
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jun 11, 2018 9:33:13 GMT -5
Just wondering, but was the 2003 film really as bad as people said it was? You wouldn't like him when he's Ang Lee.
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Post by Tenshigure on Jun 11, 2018 9:53:09 GMT -5
Ang Lee leaned heavy into the 'it's a comic book movie!' and shot it as if you were reading an older comic book. Using the aforementioned ridiculous death scene as reference, here it is in its entirety:
There is a style to it for sure, but when you're talking nearly 2 1/2 hours of this, it can be somewhat jarring to say the least. It's not the worst thing in the world, but compared to the higher standards that Marvel movies have become since the MCU began, it doesn't come close.
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