Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,298
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Post by Fade on Aug 22, 2018 4:42:35 GMT -5
I mean. Try and get over. Whether or not you do or don't may or may not mean f*** all to the guy in charge.
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Post by abjordans on Aug 22, 2018 4:47:30 GMT -5
I have never understood the Zach Ryder thing. Could they have really done much more with him? I feel like there was a part of that we don’t take into consideration. When they gave him a shot, he had ok to mediocre matches with Ziggler, he cut the worst promos ever, and he looked like a giant dork standing there with Punk and Bryan that one time. I always thought him getting over kept him employed, otherwise he probably would have been canned years ago. They keep him around, probably forever, because he is perma over and that is useful and he can always be plugged into spots on the show. But, he reached about as high as he could. He doesn’t have it in him to be a top guy or even like a real big part of the show. His role is to fill holes on tv, pop the live crowd, do appearances, and keep the boys happy on the road.
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Post by Prince Petty on Aug 22, 2018 4:47:32 GMT -5
Vince just doesn't remember that every big star he's had since Hogan got over on their own (and I only exclude Hogan because I'm not sure how his big push came about), and then the company got behind them as main eventers. Even the Rock crashed and burned, with the initial push, and had to go away and reinvent himself to get over with fans.
But this is what happens when a company (or rather, the man who owns the company) is on top and unchallenged for years. Laziness, complacency, the dissonance between what you used to be and what you've become. Now, the WWE has its stars picked out by Vince, and everyone just has to try and make it work.
The depressing thing is, we know how this goes. The WWE will happily make some money off the characters or catchphrases that these wrestlers have invented, but then they'll start to chip away at them. They'll tell them to change certain things, to stop saying or doing certain things and... before you know it, the wrestler is reduced to a bland, boring shell of themselves, and people lose interest.
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PKO
King Koopa
Posts: 12,615
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Post by PKO on Aug 22, 2018 6:51:29 GMT -5
I just wish when they do interviews, someone would call them out when Vince and co give the old “we listen to the fans” line.
There are more than enough receipts to show, no, no you don’t. Not in recent history.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 7:12:35 GMT -5
Vince just doesn't remember that every big star he's had since Hogan got over on their own (and I only exclude Hogan because I'm not sure how his big push came about) He was basically going through the same thing in AWA - hugely over but with them refusing to commit to it - and Vince basically just scooped him up and immediately pushed him to the moon.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,793
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Post by Nosnorb on Aug 22, 2018 7:13:20 GMT -5
I have never understood the Zach Ryder thing. Could they have really done much more with him? I feel like there was a part of that we don’t take into consideration. When they gave him a shot, he had ok to mediocre matches with Ziggler, he cut the worst promos ever, and he looked like a giant dork standing there with Punk and Bryan that one time. I always thought him getting over kept him employed, otherwise he probably would have been canned years ago. They keep him around, probably forever, because he is perma over and that is useful and he can always be plugged into spots on the show. But, he reached about as high as he could. He doesn’t have it in him to be a top guy or even like a real big part of the show. His role is to fill holes on tv, pop the live crowd, do appearances, and keep the boys happy on the road. I agree. While the angle with Kane and Cena was BRUTAL, his numbers were not good at all. In 2011, he was the second biggest channel changer behind Curtis Axel.
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Post by Cvslfc123 on Aug 22, 2018 7:41:19 GMT -5
I know he has a ceiling but they did it with Heath Slater too, the guy got himself stupidly over with the "I got kids" stuff so they move him to Raw and he gets lost in the shuffle.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
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Post by nisidhe on Aug 22, 2018 8:26:47 GMT -5
I'm willing to bet it just sticks in Vince's craw that at least one member of the Raw roster would sink the ship considerably (I think) by leaving, even to switch brands. When the worst you can do to him and get away with it is 50/50 booking, that has to cause Vince considerable frustration.
But Vince isn't entirely stupid (and Trips and Steph certainly aren't.) The minute some of these contracts come up and the lure of New Japan or the indies starts to tug at those who love the art more than the money (and especially those who've made enough money now to get by on their art alone), such things might be sufficient to get WWE to swing itself around. But I have a feeling that they'll need to be facing something like WCW-level competition again before they'll do anything and, by then, WWE won't have the underdog mantle to hide behind anymore.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Aug 22, 2018 8:48:18 GMT -5
I said it in the Smackdown thread, but how the f*** did this company manage Steve Austin correctly?
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Aug 22, 2018 10:07:21 GMT -5
They don't want anyone to be bigger than the company, they've made that clear for years. That's why if someone gets over that they don't choose, they bury them so they don't have leverage over the company.
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Timeless Hayterade
Dennis Stamp
Rhea's the Tribal Chief now. ACKNOWLEDGE MAMI!
Posts: 4,676
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Post by Timeless Hayterade on Aug 22, 2018 10:19:24 GMT -5
I said it in the Smackdown thread, but how the f*** did this company manage Steve Austin correctly? Vince was desperate back then with WCW kicking his ass. Nowadays, if we had a Steve Austin, Vince wouldn't give a f***.
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Post by Slanted and Enchanted on Aug 22, 2018 10:20:53 GMT -5
I said it in the Smackdown thread, but how the f*** did this company manage Steve Austin correctly? Because WCW was killing his company and he had his back against the wall. Otherwise it would have been the mid-90s iteration of Bret/Shawn main-eventing well into 2000 with Rocky Maivia, Mark Henry, and maybe one of the WBF crossovers stepping up to take over the title scene in the new millennium.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Aug 22, 2018 10:28:44 GMT -5
But what about New Day?
They were heels, got a bit more freedom on the mic, and well, the rest is history. Granted, that's one act out of a lot.
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 22, 2018 10:28:59 GMT -5
My advice is to do what the company wants you to do as long as it doesn't involve any stupid spots that might cause serious injuries, half ass as much as you can, live frugally, save your money, avoid personal shit backstage with the carnies, praise all their shitty ideas, follow the idiotic company line via social media and PR work, then get out of the business when you are financially secure.
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Post by Andy Martin on Aug 22, 2018 10:36:30 GMT -5
My advice is to do what the company wants you to do as long as it doesn't involve any stupid spots that might cause serious injuries, half ass as much as you can, live frugally, save your money, avoid personal shit backstage with the carnies, praise all their shitty ideas, follow the idiotic company line via social media and PR work, then get out of the business when you are financially secure. That's just called being smart. Regardless of your line of work.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,911
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Post by Dub H on Aug 22, 2018 10:40:15 GMT -5
My advice is to do what the company wants you to do as long as it doesn't involve any stupid spots that might cause serious injuries, half ass as much as you can, live frugally, save your money, avoid personal shit backstage with the carnies, praise all their shitty ideas, follow the idiotic company line via social media and PR work, then get out of the business when you are financially secure. That's just called being smart. Regardless of your line of work. Well I guess WWE gives you more money and at same time wrecks your body faster than most lines of work
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 22, 2018 10:42:02 GMT -5
I have never understood the Zach Ryder thing. Could they have really done much more with him? I feel like there was a part of that we don’t take into consideration. When they gave him a shot, he had ok to mediocre matches with Ziggler, he cut the worst promos ever, and he looked like a giant dork standing there with Punk and Bryan that one time. I always thought him getting over kept him employed, otherwise he probably would have been canned years ago. They keep him around, probably forever, because he is perma over and that is useful and he can always be plugged into spots on the show. But, he reached about as high as he could. He doesn’t have it in him to be a top guy or even like a real big part of the show. His role is to fill holes on tv, pop the live crowd, do appearances, and keep the boys happy on the road. Nah, Ryder never had to be anything huge, but it's one thing to take a guy and only push him to the midcard as a lovable loser or whatever, it's another thing to basically book him into oblivion with the subtext of "you fans were stupid for ever cheering this guy". Not everyone needs to be a main eventer or even an upper midcarder, but WWE seems way too willing to take guys and gals who could be fun, likable midcard and opening acts and make them look so awful that nobody will care about them anymore in any role. It's poor roster optimization.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,911
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Post by Dub H on Aug 22, 2018 10:45:19 GMT -5
I have never understood the Zach Ryder thing. Could they have really done much more with him? I feel like there was a part of that we don’t take into consideration. When they gave him a shot, he had ok to mediocre matches with Ziggler, he cut the worst promos ever, and he looked like a giant dork standing there with Punk and Bryan that one time. I always thought him getting over kept him employed, otherwise he probably would have been canned years ago. They keep him around, probably forever, because he is perma over and that is useful and he can always be plugged into spots on the show. But, he reached about as high as he could. He doesn’t have it in him to be a top guy or even like a real big part of the show. His role is to fill holes on tv, pop the live crowd, do appearances, and keep the boys happy on the road. Nah, Ryder never had to be anything huge, but it's one thing to take a guy and only push him to the midcard as a lovable loser or whatever, it's another thing to basically book him into oblivion with the subtext of "you fans were stupid for ever cheering this guy". Not everyone needs to be a main eventer or even an upper midcarder, but WWE seems way too willing to take guys and gals who could be fun, likable midcard and opening acts and make them look so awful that nobody will care about them anymore in any role. It's poor roster optimization. Its not even just Ryder,even using Bryan as example,the original plan before Injury as him to be fed for lesnar instead of Cena. And if I remember the words correctly it was said it would be used as "a wake up call" towards Bryan fans.At same time it would have gotten Lesnar huge as a heel,so maybe it wouldnt been an awful idea.
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Post by Cvslfc123 on Aug 22, 2018 11:16:02 GMT -5
Nah, Ryder never had to be anything huge, but it's one thing to take a guy and only push him to the midcard as a lovable loser or whatever, it's another thing to basically book him into oblivion with the subtext of "you fans were stupid for ever cheering this guy". Not everyone needs to be a main eventer or even an upper midcarder, but WWE seems way too willing to take guys and gals who could be fun, likable midcard and opening acts and make them look so awful that nobody will care about them anymore in any role. It's poor roster optimization. Its not even just Ryder,even using Bryan as example,the original plan before Injury as him to be fed for lesnar instead of Cena. And if I remember the words correctly it was said it would be used as "a wake up call" towards Bryan fans.At same time it would have gotten Lesnar huge as a heel,so maybe it wouldnt been an awful idea. That probably would have started the Lesnar hate earlier than WrestleMania 32.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Aug 22, 2018 11:21:01 GMT -5
After Damien Sandow killed his own career and had to retire, I stopped blaming the wwe for not pushing my favorites, maybe there are reasons why they don’t deserve to be pushed.
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