Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 13:14:36 GMT -5
I'll also add that nothing ever seems to have a payoff. No storyline is every satisfyingly resolved whatsoever, it either gets dropped like it never happened, changed into something else entirely (Summer of Punk = Nash vs. HHH), or just run into the ground until any interest turns into a feeling of torture (Corbin/Balor, Styles/Nakamura, etc.).
Why get invested in anything WWE ever does?
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Post by BJ Sturgeon on Sept 4, 2018 13:24:28 GMT -5
The last things I remember watching are the Matt Hardy/MVP feud, the Edge/Vicky saga and Deuce & Domino. The product back then was quite decent, but I kinda just lost interest. I keep myself updated here and I owned the WWE Network for two years and have watched the Royal Rumbles and WrestleManias in 2016 and 2017, but I general I don't feel I miss much and am content with the DVD library I own.
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ZERO
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,933
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Post by ZERO on Sept 4, 2018 13:59:34 GMT -5
The departure of CM Punk and "retirement" of Daniel Bryan.
Stephanie McMahon continuing to be a presence on WWE programming
With those, I had a realisation that I no longer had a reason to watch, but a good reason to stop. I was skipping some PPVs by that point, so I decided to just leave it behind.
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Sept 4, 2018 14:05:18 GMT -5
When it became apparent that the guys I liked would never get above a certain position on the card, and likely never above where they already were. So, about 2008.
Then it doubled down when it became clear as late as 2010-11 that Cena was still going to be on top forever no matter what anybody else did, further compounding the above problem. Then they started booking out of spite, burying guys for getting over, turning guys or changing their gimmicks for getting the wrong reactions. Then they seemed to abandon all notions of storytelling or builds or psychology for 'MOMENTS' that they had to scream were moments 10 times over, spotty matches reminiscent of all the complaints about 00s indy wrestling, and just telling you that you should (or sometimes, that you DO) care instead of giving reasons to.
The Brock stuff, the Roman stuff, it's all the same shit that's been building and building for over 10 years tbh. There's brief runs where I get interested again when it looks like people I like might actually do something, and I'll always go to a PPV party when my friends throw one (which is also rarer and rarer, basically down to the big 4 if that for a few years now), but that's much more for the social side than the product. I've sat through less than 10 full Raws in the last 10 years, maybe 5 Smackdowns, and that's honestly sad because I would even tune in weekly during the Reign of Terror to both brands.
There's no intrigue, no surprise, no reason to get excited or wonder what will happen anymore, over 90% of the time, for me. The moment that really stood out to me was when Cena came back from injury early to win the Rumble in 08, and as I sat down to watch the PPV I thought "I bet Cena enters last and wins" and sure enough he did, but most people seemed surprised. That was when I realised I'd really ran out of reasons to care, because WWE had ran out of surprises for me.
NJPW got me back into wrestling, but from about 2011-15 I watched so, so little of anything and didn't even keep up with it. WWE didn't just burn me out on WWE it burned me out on wrestling.
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 4, 2018 14:40:35 GMT -5
Then it doubled down when it became clear as late as 2010-11 that Cena was still going to be on top forever no matter what anybody else did, further compounding the above problem. Then they started booking out of spite, burying guys for getting over, turning guys or changing their gimmicks for getting the wrong reactions. Then they seemed to abandon all notions of storytelling or builds or psychology for 'MOMENTS' that they had to scream were moments 10 times over, spotty matches reminiscent of all the complaints about 00s indy wrestling, and just telling you that you should (or sometimes, that you DO) care instead of giving reasons to. It's interesting you bring up the complaints about early '00s indy wrestling; it really does feel that current WWE took a lot of the wrong lessons away from the early days of the indy boom and neglected what really got those shows and promotions over. I can always recall the bickering that would happen both here (well, the old board) and elsewhere online as people would say stuff like "ROH is just spotfest junk" or whatever; meanwhile, though, the matches that were getting people into ROH included stuff like the Samoa Joe/CM Punk trilogy, which were often much more technical and psychology-based, and angles where the storytelling for them was most frequently done in the ring through physical storytelling (e.g. the 2005 Nigel McGuinness/Colt Cabana feud). Yeah, there were opening match spotfests, and yeah it's not like the promotion full of guys in their 20s with only a few years in the industry was going to be 100% perfect with its selling and whatnot, but by and large old school ROH got over thanks mostly to really solid in-ring storytelling that was combined with new era offense and athleticism. WWE has so many of those wrestlers on its payroll now, and there are still times when they're able to show those abilities they have; way too often, though, it seems they're told to pretty much have a boilerplate WWE style match rather than do things like incorporate their current storylines into their in-ring mannerisms, or tweaking a rematch's psychology so that it plays off of what went down in a previous match between two wrestlers/teams. Again, it's not like it never happens, but it's far too rare that it actually does, and even when it does it's rarely acknowledged, so there's not a lot of reward for the audience for sitting through so many hours of programming and so many rematches. And when a good match is happening without much purpose or consideration for how it shapes the characters or feuds involved, that's pretty much, well...a "spotfest". And yeah, the marketing of "MOMENTS" is poison for good storytelling. Obviously you want to put your talent in a good position to create moments and to capitalize on them when they happen (e.g. the perfect shot-framing of Hogan slamming Andre, or making sure the camera had just the right view of Austin bleeding in the Sharpshooter), but it's part of why Wrestlemania feels so empty a lot of the time now, the "moments" are being forced rather than being natural offshoots of solid storytelling leading to an exciting climax. To tie this now too-long post all together, contrast this with something like All In: a show that wasn't perfect, but a show that seemingly satisfied nearly everyone who attended. WWE seems to have gotten into the habit of not sending its crowds home happy or satisfied, often in the name of "doing something unexpected". It's not a sound method for maintaining goodwill among your fanbase, nor for making repeat customers. Sometimes the good guy doesn't win, and that's fine, but it feels so often now like people go to WWE shows expecting to walk out miserable. Meanwhile you have a show like this past weekend where the Bullet Club/Elite guys pretty much gave the fans what they wanted on the vast majority of fronts; not that you can do that every single time out, of course, but people want to walk out the door feeling satisfied, y'know? It doesn't have to mean a happy ending (e.g. imagine being in the crowd for Bash at the Beach '96, right?), but it should mean that there's meaning and purpose to what's being presented.
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H-Virus
Hank Scorpio
A Real Contagious Experience
Posts: 5,962
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Post by H-Virus on Sept 4, 2018 14:53:03 GMT -5
I was a faithful watcher of WWE for almost 25 years. Then Wrestlemania 32 and the following episode of Raw happened, and it left me feeling completely drained, and for probably the first time ever I felt like I had completely wasted my time with the show, even though I hadn’t even paid to see it since I was watching at a friends house. I stopped watching all together for about three months before I came back for the brand split. Ever since, I’ve been following Smackdown pretty regularly but only really tuned in to Raw now and then, usually the night after a PPV.
If I had to put a pin to the reasons why I don’t care as much as I once did, it would be because nothing the company does feels special anymore. So-called ‘dream matches’ usually end up feeling lackluster, nothing holds any sort of consequence to it, and there’s no reason to get excited for anyone because unless that person is supposed to be a top guy, he’s never going to be.
NXT is the only place where it feels like none of that happens, and even then I usually just stick to the Taveovers and don’t follow the weekly show.
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Post by asellus on Sept 4, 2018 14:59:33 GMT -5
Boredom honestly. The booking is atrocious, but not in a funny kind of way, the matches feel samey despite the immense amount of talent they have and just the contempt they have for their audience is palpable. There is only so much of that I can watch. It doesn't help that time has become fleeting in recent times because of school and family and after a while it really felt like I lost nothing when I didn't watch.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,850
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Post by Dub H on Sept 4, 2018 15:21:33 GMT -5
Then it doubled down when it became clear as late as 2010-11 that Cena was still going to be on top forever no matter what anybody else did, further compounding the above problem. Then they started booking out of spite, burying guys for getting over, turning guys or changing their gimmicks for getting the wrong reactions. Then they seemed to abandon all notions of storytelling or builds or psychology for 'MOMENTS' that they had to scream were moments 10 times over, spotty matches reminiscent of all the complaints about 00s indy wrestling, and just telling you that you should (or sometimes, that you DO) care instead of giving reasons to. It's interesting you bring up the complaints about early '00s indy wrestling; it really does feel that current WWE took a lot of the wrong lessons away from the early days of the indy boom and neglected what really got those shows and promotions over. I can always recall the bickering that would happen both here (well, the old board) and elsewhere online as people would say stuff like "ROH is just spotfest junk" or whatever; meanwhile, though, the matches that were getting people into ROH included stuff like the Samoa Joe/CM Punk trilogy, which were often much more technical and psychology-based, and angles where the storytelling for them was most frequently done in the ring through physical storytelling (e.g. the 2005 Nigel McGuinness/Colt Cabana feud). Yeah, there were opening match spotfests, and yeah it's not like the promotion full of guys in their 20s with only a few years in the industry was going to be 100% perfect with its selling and whatnot, but by and large old school ROH got over thanks mostly to really solid in-ring storytelling that was combined with new era offense and athleticism. WWE has so many of those wrestlers on its payroll now, and there are still times when they're able to show those abilities they have; way too often, though, it seems they're told to pretty much have a boilerplate WWE style match rather than do things like incorporate their current storylines into their in-ring mannerisms, or tweaking a rematch's psychology so that it plays off of what went down in a previous match between two wrestlers/teams. Again, it's not like it never happens, but it's far too rare that it actually does, and even when it does it's rarely acknowledged, so there's not a lot of reward for the audience for sitting through so many hours of programming and so many rematches. And when a good match is happening without much purpose or consideration for how it shapes the characters or feuds involved, that's pretty much, well...a "spotfest". And yeah, the marketing of "MOMENTS" is poison for good storytelling. Obviously you want to put your talent in a good position to create moments and to capitalize on them when they happen (e.g. the perfect shot-framing of Hogan slamming Andre, or making sure the camera had just the right view of Austin bleeding in the Sharpshooter), but it's part of why Wrestlemania feels so empty a lot of the time now, the "moments" are being forced rather than being natural offshoots of solid storytelling leading to an exciting climax. To tie this now too-long post all together, contrast this with something like All In: a show that wasn't perfect, but a show that seemingly satisfied nearly everyone who attended. WWE seems to have gotten into the habit of not sending its crowds home happy or satisfied, often in the name of "doing something unexpected". It's not a sound method for maintaining goodwill among your fanbase, nor for making repeat customers. Sometimes the good guy doesn't win, and that's fine, but it feels so often now like people go to WWE shows expecting to walk out miserable. Meanwhile you have a show like this past weekend where the Bullet Club/Elite guys pretty much gave the fans what they wanted on the vast majority of fronts; not that you can do that every single time out, of course, but people want to walk out the door feeling satisfied, y'know? It doesn't have to mean a happy ending (e.g. imagine being in the crowd for Bash at the Beach '96, right?), but it should mean that there's meaning and purpose to what's being presented. Another thing that WWE could learn from All In Is that you dont need to everytome go All In the same guys. It is okay to let people that dont usually go on main events get a chance to go there if the storyline deserves it.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Sept 4, 2018 15:24:16 GMT -5
I truly believe the real answer is once a lot of us stopped making excuses, removed our WWE rose colored glasses, and started to examine just how insulting and atrocious the WWE product as a whole has been we walked away. But I will say this in general. Of course this may get a lot of hate for what I am about to say. I can't fully blame the WWE as they haven't or rather don't have legitimate form of competition in their wake. Sure there's NJPW, ROH, Impact, and Lucha Underground, however, none of them have the same connection or financial resources that the WWE has on a global spectacle scale. I truly believe that's why a lot of fans can't walk away. The WWE has conditioned them into a state of mind that "The WWE is the only entertainment in town and I can't walk away."
When I see an 83 page thread of the same fans who complain about the product and actually still remain watching the show only to complain, make snarky sarcastic remarks, and bash the product that's when I have to shake my head in disbelief. When there's something I am not satisfied with or I don't like I simply stop watching, find something else, and move on. When X-Men 3: The Last stand was released in theatres. I was one of those fans who was just happy to see an X-Men film given the troubled production, rushed shooting schedule, and constant rewrites that I found myself brainwashed into believing that was the product I wanted. Once I realized how much potential was wasted with the Phoenix Saga and the Cure Storyline I became bitter, angry, and resentful and to this very day I refuse to watch it nor buy it to complete my collection.
The same logic applies to the WWE. Once I saw what they did with the Summer of Punk storyline and Daniel Bryan I knew I had to stop watching. The company obviously doesn't care about me as a fan, consumer, and as someone who followed the WWE since 1988 through the New Generation, Attitude Era, Ruthless Aggression, etc.... Reality set in that it was no longer the WWE I loved growing up nor was it ever going to change for my liking.
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Post by Georgina's Fancy Water on Sept 4, 2018 15:47:19 GMT -5
I haven't stopped watching *entirely* but most of my viewing nowadays is tuning on occasionally on impulse and then leaving shortly after out of pure boredom, so like
Nearly everything that goes on is monstrously boring and the writing is so bad that it feels like they've never even watched a TV show before, let alone a wrestling show. Also, it's next to impossible to root for anyone when nearly anybody that gets over is either forced to turn heel or shoved in to the "looks really strong in defeat" slot for the rest of time.
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Juice
El Dandy
Wrong? Oh he can tell ya about being wrong.
I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
Posts: 8,172
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Post by Juice on Sept 4, 2018 15:55:45 GMT -5
Unlike most people who bitch and still watch. I walked away. I have free access to the network and have not even turned it on once. They will never get another penny from me again. Roman, and frankly The Shield reunions and lack of any real effort put forth anywhere. Asuka, Rousey, lack of pushefor people who I want to see. The B team gets a tag title run, but Breezeango couldn't? Me being at a Raw over a year ago, seeing Braun and Samoa Joe just job the f out to Reigns. The annoyed fanbase who bitches and bitches and bitches but watch every damn night. and pay for the network. There is a lot that I want to see, and a lot of performers that I want to succeed but that company can f*** right off. I am done. The indies have never been better. NJPW and Lucha promotions have never been better.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Sept 4, 2018 16:04:50 GMT -5
I never fully stopped watching, but I don't watch it the way I once did as in every show ever week. The current product hasn't had that must watch feel like it did in the past. I think my watching just over the course just became less and less during the whole PG era. The thing the biggest turn away for me as been the WWE went away from the face of the company happen naturally like the way Austin, Rock, and even Cena at one point came about. When a wrestler starts getting over with the fans that wasn't a part of the plans that legit cut them at the knees. It used to be they get more a push and run with it, instead they are more punished for it. We seen it with Braun, we saw it with Rusev, and others
The whole Roman Reigns deal as been one of the bigger turn offs for me. The fact other guys got more over, they end up depushing or turning them and force feeding this guy to us. Why does he HAVE to be the guy at all cost is what I will never understand. While I still watch the PPVs/ big events on the networks. The Weekly TV shows just been I get a recap or if I have nothing better to do, I watch it for a while but more just background.
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Post by chronocross on Sept 4, 2018 16:14:36 GMT -5
I think it was around the Summer of 2012 when they turned Punk heel and it was clear that he was losing the belt at Royal Rumble 13 as they said it in July that Rock would get a title shot at that PPV, nothing was really going to happen between now and then as you knew they were aiming for Cena vs. Rock 2 for the WWE Title.
I started watching more recaps online and Facebook/Youtube vids and would occasionally watch the PPVs like the Rumble and Mania and maybe the Raw after Mania or the 25th Anniversary show in January but that's about it. I keep the Network as the classic content is the main draw for me, as I enjoy watching the old WCW and WWF shows.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Sept 4, 2018 16:40:11 GMT -5
Oddly enough, the last straw for me was that video package hyping up the return of Shelton Benjamin. And I know he ended up injured and didn't actually return until like a year later, but just the idea that getting to see Shelton Benjamin on TV again was something I was expected to be excited about made me realize what a gulf there is between me and WWE's target audience these days. I can’t wait until Gene Snitsky gets a video hype package in 6 years and someone posts about how “Snitsky was so over when I was a kid”..I think that’ll be my sign.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 16:43:22 GMT -5
A lot has to do with my favorites not being around anymore.
Edge, HBK, and Punk retired.
Jericho can be gone for a year or two at a time.
Sting finally signed he was quickly jobbed out and retired.
Brock finally returned he was great for a little while. Then they turned him into the two moves of doom. That’s when he ever shows up.
Even when shit was bad, wrestling would turn into background noise. I would still stick my head for my favorites.
The booking sucks.
Being reminded every show that nobody on the roster is as good as the guys from 20 years ago.
Being reminded every show that no one is as good as Roman.
Wanting to cheer for Becky, Braun, and others only for them to look like jokes.
Three hour raws absolutely killed most of my interest and when my roommate turned off the cable. I didn’t care enough fight it.
I try to watch a ppv every now and then it reminds me why I stopped watching.
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Post by Aceorton on Sept 4, 2018 17:17:49 GMT -5
I stopped watching religiously around 2000-ish and stopped watching even semi-regularly in 2002, a few months after WM18. Since then, I've only watched occasional one-off episodes of RAW and a couple of PPVs when someone threw a SummerSlam 2014 party and someone else gave me some free DVDs. I stopped watching in 2002 because: - The change from WWF to WWE never felt right. I grew up on the WWF. Putting the word "Entertainment" in the name was lame then and is still lame today.
- The brand split watered down the shows terribly. Dancing Bubba Ray Dudley and APA Bradshaw were flirting with main-event singles spots.
- The "new" nWo.
I was intrigued a few years ago with the Punk stuff and considered getting back into it. Here is why I haven't: - Scripted promos.
- Beating you over the head with "WWE Universe" and terrible nicknames.
- The crowds don't make noise half the time. Segments are just dying. This is OK?
- Useless Access Hollywood-style "personalities" like Charly Caruso.
- Failure to really give the fans what they want.
- Tickets to live shows are about 5x what I used to pay in the 1990s for something that's not even remotely as entertaining.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 4, 2018 21:31:39 GMT -5
Phil is all of us. WWE is Ned
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