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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 18, 2019 20:43:05 GMT -5
Did having the nwa champion come to the territories ended up hurting the promotions? I mean he came into town and the top guy either lost or got screwed at the end, wouldn’t it have been more effective for the territories to break away and proclaim their top guy the world champion? That's usually why they'd do draws, to try to elevate the top guy. It's a big part of why Flair was champion for so long, since he could put over people in a big way and had the cardio to do it. Some obviously would go solo, but it was a big risk, since the NWA would bring in stars, and brought some infrastructure that a lot of guys couldn't compete with. Vince Sr. ended up quietly rejoining the NWA after having had left, but he had two major benefits that let him do so without making his world champion look inferior: a major market, and a massive asset. If China's lending of pandas can be termed Panda Diplomacy, Vince Sr. had Andre diplomacy. If you wanted Andre the giant, and if you were booking a territory, you DID want him, you had to book him through Vince Sr, who was his talent agent in the States. The NWA couldn't turn that down, and people played ball with New York without their independent champion being an issue. Vincent Kennedy McMahon had no interest in remaining part of the NWA, and dissolved the partnership on taking control of the company, and subsequently wanted exclusive use of Andre. Andre wasn't thrilled about it, but obviously made plenty of money. Yeah Flair was awesome making even the shittiest local star ever look like a legit contender and convinced the fans that if the time limit just lasted a little longer, the local guy would be nwa champion, but didn’t it got tiresome at certain points? Like how many times can Ric come to Dallas only for the VE’s to beat him up for the majority of the match but then got screwed at the end? Didn’t the fans already expected the Von Erich’s to choke up after so many times? I think Gary Hart before leaving wccw said that he didn’t like booking the nwa champ because by him retaining the belt all the time, that it would hurt the Von Erichs.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jan 18, 2019 22:11:40 GMT -5
Did having the nwa champion come to the territories ended up hurting the promotions? I mean he came into town and the top guy either lost or got screwed at the end, wouldn’t it have been more effective for the territories to break away and proclaim their top guy the world champion? Beyond Mozenrath's post, one thing to keep in mind is that the NWA champ wasn't necessarily paired up with the top guy whenever he showed up to town. Often it would be someone higher in the card that the promoter was looking to place into the main event level stuff. That's why guys like Iceman Parsons and Chris Adams got shots when Flair went to World Class, or why Marty Jannetty got title shots in Central States. Some like Watts would often build whole angles around the visit, such as the famous Reed/Murdoch/DiBiase bit that ended up placing DiBiase right next to Duggan as Mid-South's top babyface.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 18, 2019 22:28:34 GMT -5
Did having the nwa champion come to the territories ended up hurting the promotions? I mean he came into town and the top guy either lost or got screwed at the end, wouldn’t it have been more effective for the territories to break away and proclaim their top guy the world champion? Beyond Mozenrath's post, one thing to keep in mind is that the NWA champ wasn't necessarily paired up with the top guy whenever he showed up to town. Often it would be someone higher in the card that the promoter was looking to place into the main event level stuff. That's why guys like Iceman Parsons and Chris Adams got shots when Flair went to World Class, or why Marty Jannetty got title shots in Central States. Some like Watts would often build whole angles around the visit, such as the famous Reed/Murdoch/DiBiase bit that ended up placing DiBiase right next to Duggan as Mid-South's top babyface. I get that argument and that it gives guys instant credibility thereby putting them in a main event program with the top star of the territory, but what happens when a Lawler or a Von Erich just can’t beat the nwa champion no matter how hard they try? Doesn’t that end up hurting the territory?
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jan 18, 2019 23:34:51 GMT -5
Beyond Mozenrath's post, one thing to keep in mind is that the NWA champ wasn't necessarily paired up with the top guy whenever he showed up to town. Often it would be someone higher in the card that the promoter was looking to place into the main event level stuff. That's why guys like Iceman Parsons and Chris Adams got shots when Flair went to World Class, or why Marty Jannetty got title shots in Central States. Some like Watts would often build whole angles around the visit, such as the famous Reed/Murdoch/DiBiase bit that ended up placing DiBiase right next to Duggan as Mid-South's top babyface. I get that argument and that it gives guys instant credibility thereby putting them in a main event program with the top star of the territory, but what happens when a Lawler or a Von Erich just can’t beat the nwa champion no matter how hard they try? Doesn’t that end up hurting the territory? Not to a great degree if they booked good matches. Mindset was different back then, NWA champ was usually integrated into the local promotion's narrative juuuust enough that he didn't feel like some all-conquering outsider coming in to discredit the locals. He was part of the promotion, but special and not seen every episode. There's a slim parallel in it to Lensar's most recent runs, but if his matches were better and his opponents walked away from the match looking like a million bucks. He only shows up every month or two, but he's The Champ. Plus there was a bit of a disconnect in the presentation. The big shows with the NWA champ on them were rarely televised, so the brunt of seeing the local top guy lose didn't sting as bad.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 18, 2019 23:57:23 GMT -5
I get that argument and that it gives guys instant credibility thereby putting them in a main event program with the top star of the territory, but what happens when a Lawler or a Von Erich just can’t beat the nwa champion no matter how hard they try? Doesn’t that end up hurting the territory? Not to a great degree if they booked good matches. Mindset was different back then, NWA champ was usually integrated into the local promotion's narrative juuuust enough that he didn't feel like some all-conquering outsider coming in to discredit the locals. He was part of the promotion, but special and not seen every episode. There's a slim parallel in it to Lensar's most recent runs, but if his matches were better and his opponents walked away from the match looking like a million bucks. He only shows up every month or two, but he's The Champ. Plus there was a bit of a disconnect in the presentation. The big shows with the NWA champ on them were rarely televised, so the brunt of seeing the local top guy lose didn't sting as bad. Thank you, I always thought the nwa champ was presented as the best in the world but he wasn’t there enough and the top guy was kept away from him so he wouldn’t look bad by losing and using the nwa champion to advance a local storyline. Kinda like Flair being responsible for the Freebirds-VE feud.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jan 19, 2019 0:05:39 GMT -5
If Boesch was only his boss then why accompany her to the morgue? Here's the thing - Boesch wasn't his boss. Gino worked for World Class, and hadn't worked a Boesch card in five and a half years when he passed (and that one was only because he was part of the World Class roster that Boesch was borrowing). In fact, Gino was on the World Class cards held in Houston in direct opposition to Boesch later on.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 19, 2019 0:09:22 GMT -5
If Boesch was only his boss then why accompany her to the morgue? Here's the thing - Boesch wasn't his boss. Gino worked for World Class, and hadn't worked a Boesch card in five and a half years when he passed (and that one was only because he was part of the World Class roster that Boesch was borrowing). In fact, Gino was on the World Class cards held in Houston in direct opposition to Boesch later on. You’re right, I should’ve said that he was his boss years before and one of the first promoters to use him.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jan 19, 2019 0:26:46 GMT -5
Here's the thing - Boesch wasn't his boss. Gino worked for World Class, and hadn't worked a Boesch card in five and a half years when he passed (and that one was only because he was part of the World Class roster that Boesch was borrowing). In fact, Gino was on the World Class cards held in Houston in direct opposition to Boesch later on. You’re right, I should’ve said that he was his boss years before and one of the first promoters to use him. But it definitely strengthens your question of "why" Why would Boesch, who hadn't employed Gino in half a decade, make a 10-hour round trip (just the driving) to witness the body of a former employee who had up to then been working for an aggressive rival? Either Gino was his kid or...and this is from about 18 left fields over...they had a different kind of relationship at some point; one in line with some of the other stuff mentioned about him here already.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 19, 2019 2:12:40 GMT -5
You’re right, I should’ve said that he was his boss years before and one of the first promoters to use him. But it definitely strengthens your question of "why" Why would Boesch, who hadn't employed Gino in half a decade, make a 10-hour round trip (just the driving) to witness the body of a former employee who had up to then been working for an aggressive rival? Either Gino was his kid or...and this is from about 18 left fields over...they had a different kind of relationship at some point; one in line with some of the other stuff mentioned about him here already. This is just locker room gossip and hearsay but Prichard claimed that the veterans in Houston used to say that Gino’s mom was Boesch’s mistress in the mid to late 50’s, around the time Gino was born. Also that since back then it was considered almost a crime to have a child out of wedlock, Boesch kept it secret and paired Gino’s mom with wrestler Luis Hernandez, real name Charles Wolfe, who then adopted Gino and gave him his name Charles Wolfe Jr. The rabbit hole goes deeper, in the funeral Boesch was apparently consoling Gino’s mom like if they were really close, despite the fact that they had minimal contact for decades before that. Another weird tidbit from the podcast was Prichard mentioning that after Boesch had a nasty fight with Gino, he got depressed and started the process of selling part of the company to Bill Watts because he wanted to get out of the business eventually. Because of that I’m more inclined to believe that Boesch was his dad...although I would’ve give anything to see footage of Paul Boesch dancing and partying in a gay bar, I think it would be something like this. youtu.be/gYG1xB8q2jU
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2019 2:58:54 GMT -5
Loved Kevin’s One-way tickets to Thailand commercial.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jan 19, 2019 12:28:36 GMT -5
Because of that I’m more inclined to believe that Boesch was his dad...although I would’ve give anything to see footage of Paul Boesch dancing and partying in a gay bar, I think it would be something like this. LOL, yeah, I don't really think that he was, but outside the son theory, there just aren't many other reasons I can think of for Paul staying loyal to a guy he saw as a top prospect a decade before.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 19, 2019 13:11:58 GMT -5
Because of that I’m more inclined to believe that Boesch was his dad...although I would’ve give anything to see footage of Paul Boesch dancing and partying in a gay bar, I think it would be something like this. LOL, yeah, I don't really think that he was, but outside the son theory, there just aren't many other reasons I can think of for Paul staying loyal to a guy he saw as a top prospect a decade before. It’s a very very weird deal. Why would Boesch care so much about an employee who was always f***ing up, doing drugs, and working for the opposition? And if he’s just Hernandez’s former boss, why would he do all of that stuff he did when Gino died? Prichard also said that when he left to work for Vince, Boesch cut him from his life, despite the fact that Bruce knew Boesch since he was ten years old. Gino did worst stuff to Boesch but he always helped Hernandez out and always maintained a relationship with him.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 14:15:31 GMT -5
Finally caught up and Glen Goza is the absolute worst I watched the video of him they played on the show and then I got caught in a Glen Goza rabbit hole it was terrifying thankfully he only has like 4 songs but it was 4 too many.GOSHAMODY WHATABODY.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 8:52:15 GMT -5
I hope they can answer this in the 86 installment. Why did they make Bigelow a communist?
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MrElijah
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Post by MrElijah on Jan 21, 2019 10:47:00 GMT -5
Just finished the Life and Death of the AWA. Can't wait to see WCCW '88 and Superclash III from another point of view.
And we better get Lapsed Verne vs. Lapsed Fritz.
"Y'know Fritz, you owe me from the time I put the AWA belt on you and that's why I'm keeping the money."
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 21, 2019 16:11:39 GMT -5
I have another question for Madison or the other wccw fans from that time, why did Fritz only pushed his kids as the main draws and as the faces of the company and no one else? This despite that they became addicts and unreliable, to the point that they no showed events and when they did they were f***ed up.
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Post by abjordans on Jan 21, 2019 17:59:07 GMT -5
1986 Part 1 just dropped, over 4 hours.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
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Post by salz4life on Jan 21, 2019 17:59:13 GMT -5
Part 1 of '86 is up.... I'm right in the middle of the Wrestlemania IX episode and will get back into WCCW next. LOL
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 21, 2019 20:29:06 GMT -5
Sigh every episode gets more and more depressing.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 21, 2019 20:42:50 GMT -5
JP saying that he got depressed doing fantasy booking because he imagined Gino becoming a horseman. What could've been...
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