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Post by Joe Neglia on Jan 21, 2019 21:38:24 GMT -5
I have another question for Madison or the other wccw fans from that time, why did Fritz only pushed his kids as the main draws and as the faces of the company and no one else? This despite that they became addicts and unreliable, to the point that they no showed events and when they did they were f***ed up. We're looking at it from a distance of decades hindsight though. A lot of the cracks in the VEs weren't as apparent when they were happening. The no-shows thing is true, but a bit overstated. They didn't just disappear for huge lengths of bookings. They missed a show here, another there; and even then, it was most often smaller shows in the middle of nowhere in a time before everyone was calling each other and networking this sort of information. Public relations no-shows were often blamed on being injured or the like. As far as them being f***ed up, have to keep in mind that they had such laid back, easygoing personalities most of the time already, so when they were zoning it...wasn't that much of a noticeable difference superficially. The drugs just weren't a real issue at the time. We bought the story about David's stomach flu. Mike just couldn't handle not being able to wrestle anymore after his illness hurt him so bad. Kerry's arrest and suicide were really the two pieces that suddenly made everything else start falling into place for us in the general public. And only then did we really start hearing about everything. Why didn't Fritz put anyone else in the main event? Like most promoters, he tried to keep that spot close to home. Even back then, no one wanted to find out their top champ showed up in another promotion the night before without notice. Jarrett and Lawler kept things squarely on Lawler. Verne and Watts (and Fritz) were top dog until they couldn't physically go anymore and had to begrudgingly hand it off. And really, as messed up as the Von Erichs were, the World Class locker room was a magnet for people who were less stable. Matt Borne, Warrior, the 'Birds, Jake, Buzz Sawyer, Brody, Adams, Moondog Mayne...
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Post by MrElijah on Jan 22, 2019 12:44:23 GMT -5
Damn, Chris Adams really dumbed hisself outta position.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 13,969
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Post by salz4life on Jan 22, 2019 13:05:39 GMT -5
Gino Hernandez in the Horsemen fascinates me. I think they could've eventually done an money angle with him and Flair over "control" for the Horsemen.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 13,969
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Post by salz4life on Jan 22, 2019 17:48:35 GMT -5
Fritz made sure Mike, upon his return, was the highest paid guy on every card he was on. My God.....
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Post by abjordans on Jan 22, 2019 19:16:05 GMT -5
Gino Hernandez in the Horsemen fascinates me. I think they could've eventually done an money angle with him and Flair over "control" for the Horsemen. I have always thought Gino would have went with Vince. I mean, Ted Dibiase obviously fit it like a glove and made it iconic, but Hernandez as the Million Dollar Man has always been interesting to me.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 13,969
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Post by salz4life on Jan 22, 2019 19:49:35 GMT -5
Gino Hernandez in the Horsemen fascinates me. I think they could've eventually done an money angle with him and Flair over "control" for the Horsemen. I have always thought Gino would have went with Vince. I mean, Ted Dibiase obviously fit it like a glove and made it iconic, but Hernandez as the Million Dollar Man has always been interesting to me. I'm sure that would've worked as well.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 22, 2019 19:54:57 GMT -5
Ok I need to know more about the f***ing doctor who prescribed all the drugs to the roster, no wonder everybody died.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jan 22, 2019 20:53:30 GMT -5
Gino Hernandez in the Horsemen fascinates me. I think they could've eventually done an money angle with him and Flair over "control" for the Horsemen. Gino as a Horseman...not sure how those two could have even been a "might have" - The original four were essential for the stable; it wasn't happening with anyone else. Andersons and Flair were already a unit, and Tully was the outsider brought in. Without Tully, no JJ Dillon. Maybe after Ole got kicked out or something, but otherwise...
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jan 22, 2019 21:19:52 GMT -5
Gino Hernandez in the Horsemen fascinates me. I think they could've eventually done an money angle with him and Flair over "control" for the Horsemen. Gino as a Horseman...not sure how those two could have even been a "might have" - The original four were essential for the stable; it wasn't happening with anyone else. Andersons and Flair were already a unit, and Tully was the outsider brought in. Without Tully, no JJ Dillon. Maybe after Ole got kicked out or something, but otherwise... Mad, Gino was a bit before my time, and I'm trying to get a picture of him in terms of star power or even potential star power. Who is someone would you compare him with that is a bit more modern, or even someone around the same time period, but was in JCP or WWF, which I'm more familiar with.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 22, 2019 21:27:57 GMT -5
Gino Hernandez in the Horsemen fascinates me. I think they could've eventually done an money angle with him and Flair over "control" for the Horsemen. Gino as a Horseman...not sure how those two could have even been a "might have" - The original four were essential for the stable; it wasn't happening with anyone else. Andersons and Flair were already a unit, and Tully was the outsider brought in. Without Tully, no JJ Dillon. Maybe after Ole got kicked out or something, but otherwise... In my opinion, Gino would've been a lot better than Tully.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 22, 2019 21:29:11 GMT -5
Fritz made sure Mike, upon his return, was the highest paid guy on every card he was on. My God..... and most of Mike's pay went to ol Fritz.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jan 22, 2019 22:47:40 GMT -5
Gino as a Horseman...not sure how those two could have even been a "might have" - The original four were essential for the stable; it wasn't happening with anyone else. Andersons and Flair were already a unit, and Tully was the outsider brought in. Without Tully, no JJ Dillon. Maybe after Ole got kicked out or something, but otherwise... Mad, Gino was a bit before my time, and I'm trying to get a picture of him in terms of star power or even potential star power. Who is someone would you compare him with that is a bit more modern, or even someone around the same time period, but was in JCP or WWF, which I'm more familiar with. There's a lot of different answers to that one, all just my opinion. Gino had every tool needed to be a top star. He always seemed to be getting better, always just a little more fluid than the last time. Almost like how Shawn Michaels kept improving up to the very end. In fact, by the time of his final match, I see a LOT of Michaels in him (and not just because both were trained by Jose Lothario - and Gino rocketing into the top of the card as a heel was launched by a heel turn on Lothario). Dude was so hated by Houston fans that in a heel vs heel match against NWA champion Harley Race, the fans turned Harley - who had long been a heel during his Texas visits - into a babyface for the night. Now, with that said...he wasn't quite there yet. I've always felt that the reason a lot of people could see Gino in the Horsemen is because, well, he was already there. Gino wasn't doing anything fresh or really noteworthy. He was, for all intents and purposes, a clone of Flair and/or Tully. Wore the same kind of clothes, talked about the same things in the same way (just without the various trademarked Flair catchphrases), and like Flair and Tully, he was living his gimmick. When the other guys were hitting the bar after a show, Gino was headed for the nightclubs. And that's what made him work in World Class: He was the Mirror Universe version of the VEs - a local boy born just months apart from Kevin VE who turned to the dark side and embraced all the glitz the downhome VEs had no time for. Had he had the chance to evolve his character beyond what it was, sky was the limit for Gino. Well, that's assuming he not burn any more bridges in the process, because he was well on his way to Eddie Gilbert territory with that. Comparing him to others...he was pretty big on the territory level. But then the Freebirds happened and Gino being pretty big wasn't as pretty big anymore. No doubt, he still carried his role and drew big crowds, but the 'Birds were the 'Birds and took things nuclear. As a top heel, I'd kinda put him in the same level (and we're talking regional-to-global) as maybe Edge during his time at the top. Certainly deserved to be there, did good business (I'm assuming there, regarding Edge, just so someone doesn't come in with "Nuh uh, attendance dropped to negative five billion during his run!"), but never could take things to the next level.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 22, 2019 22:55:15 GMT -5
gems from this week's episode,
1. Fritz sued almost all of the f***ing former wccw talent because they were gonna work opposition to Fritz in Dallas.
2. Gary Hart admitted that Paul Boesch had a lot of mistresses but Gino's mom was not one of them. According to Hart, Gino's biological dad left the family when Gino's mom was pregnant.
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Post by abjordans on Jan 23, 2019 5:34:46 GMT -5
Gino Hernandez in the Horsemen fascinates me. I think they could've eventually done an money angle with him and Flair over "control" for the Horsemen. Gino as a Horseman...not sure how those two could have even been a "might have" - The original four were essential for the stable; it wasn't happening with anyone else. Andersons and Flair were already a unit, and Tully was the outsider brought in. Without Tully, no JJ Dillon. Maybe after Ole got kicked out or something, but otherwise... Just curious, you have been answering a lot of questions and feeling in some blanks, are you actually listening a long to the podcasts? What are your thoughts on the way they are telling the story if so?
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Post by MrElijah on Jan 23, 2019 7:39:57 GMT -5
Damn, didn't know Watts and Crockett came after Fritz like that. Man, '86 was not a good year: Gino dies, Kerry's injury, breaking off from the NWA, Mantell and others leaving. Should've bowed out, Fritz.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jan 23, 2019 11:26:51 GMT -5
Gino as a Horseman...not sure how those two could have even been a "might have" - The original four were essential for the stable; it wasn't happening with anyone else. Andersons and Flair were already a unit, and Tully was the outsider brought in. Without Tully, no JJ Dillon. Maybe after Ole got kicked out or something, but otherwise... Just curious, you have been answering a lot of questions and feeling in some blanks, are you actually listening a long to the podcasts? What are your thoughts on the way they are telling the story if so? Never listened to it. I've heard a couple of their Wrestlemania and Starrcade overviews but nothing on their World Class stuff. Damn, didn't know Watts and Crockett came after Fritz like that. Man, '86 was not a good year: Gino dies, Kerry's injury, breaking off from the NWA, Mantell and others leaving. Should've bowed out, Fritz. Watts going after Fritz was a bit karmatic. At one point, the two were on good terms, but after Fritz and Paul Boesch had a falling out and Boesch switch from booking World Class workers in Houston to booking Mid-South guys, Fritz tried to start a territory war by invading Houston and holding his own cards there. And failed. Watts had no issues taking in that exodus of talent afterward. Damn, Chris Adams really dumbed hisself outta position. I mentioned before that I was friends with Chris for a short time before he died and I have to say...yeah. Adams was one of the most self-destructive people I've ever known. Good guy deep down inside, but just could not make a good decision to save his life.
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Post by MrElijah on Jan 23, 2019 12:33:43 GMT -5
Just curious, you have been answering a lot of questions and feeling in some blanks, are you actually listening a long to the podcasts? What are your thoughts on the way they are telling the story if so? Never listened to it. I've heard a couple of their Wrestlemania and Starrcade overviews but nothing on their World Class stuff. Damn, didn't know Watts and Crockett came after Fritz like that. Man, '86 was not a good year: Gino dies, Kerry's injury, breaking off from the NWA, Mantell and others leaving. Should've bowed out, Fritz. Watts going after Fritz was a bit karmatic. At one point, the two were on good terms, but after Fritz and Paul Boesch had a falling out and Boesch switch from booking World Class workers in Houston to booking Mid-South guys, Fritz tried to start a territory war by invading Houston and holding his own cards there. And failed. Watts had no issues taking in that exodus of talent afterward. Damn, Chris Adams really dumbed hisself outta position. I mentioned before that I was friends with Chris for a short time before he died and I have to say...yeah. Adams was one of the most self-destructive people I've ever known. Good guy deep down inside, but just could not make a good decision to save his life. It's so amazing how the promoters just kept f***ing each other. Be it greed, stupidity, petty nonsense, they just couldn't help it. The more you dig, it's less "Vince was a genius!" and more "These guys are idiots and assholes!"
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 23, 2019 13:02:15 GMT -5
Karma got fatboy Watts at the end. His ex wife cleaned him out after the divorce. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
I hope the next deep dive Jack and JP start is about that piece of shit and Mid South. Watts deserves to be mocked.
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Post by realist on Jan 23, 2019 13:09:09 GMT -5
Karma got fatboy Watts at the end. His ex wife cleaned him out after the divorce. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. I hope the next deep dive Jack and JP start is about that piece of shit and Mid South. Watts deserves to be mocked. Now, that would be a good deep dive. Hopefully, Glen Goza recorded a rendition of "Heaven Needed a Racist" to use as the theme song for whenever they cover Mid-South.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 23, 2019 13:29:17 GMT -5
Karma got fatboy Watts at the end. His ex wife cleaned him out after the divorce. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. I hope the next deep dive Jack and JP start is about that piece of shit and Mid South. Watts deserves to be mocked. Now, that would be a good deep dive. Hopefully, Glen Goza recorded a rendition of "Heaven Needed a Racist" to use as the theme song for whenever they cover Mid-South. I hope they used the tapes of the interview that got him fired. I noticed recently that Watts like Fritz tried to work the religion angle and people finally saw through their bullshit.
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