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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 11, 2019 19:21:38 GMT -5
It's crazy that one of Machado/Harper might end up in Philly or on the White Sox. I'm sure neither player imagined that's how things would end up. Also, regarding the free agency market being cold. You have to thank the GMs and owners who were giving out 10-12 year contracts like candy. Albert Pujols still has another 3 years left on that contract. It's very rare for those contracts to work out. I wonder if players will start accepting lower years for more AAV. That might be how they maximize their money from now on. Like if Machado accepts a 4 year, $160M and goes back on the market at age 30, you’d think a team with money might bite on that rather than 10/300. It’s more upfront money for the player but less long term security. You’re exactly right teams are scared of term, not dollars. I guarantee players would be making way more per year if they accepted fewer years but everyone wants Pujols years. Teams are smarter than that now. Now you have to do years or money you can’t have both if the market dictates it Giancarlo might be the last for a good long time to get a contract like that baring Trout
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Post by Cyno on Jan 11, 2019 19:26:16 GMT -5
The agents are going to have to change their approaches more than anything. They're the ones doing the negotiations after all. If the new conventional wisdom says "get more AAV even if it isn't a massively long term contract" then to quote that Philly guy yelling at Machado: "GET DA MONEY!" Teams don't want to do albatross contracts anymore.
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Post by sfvega on Jan 11, 2019 19:33:54 GMT -5
I get why people don't want to do very long contracts. 10 year deals are dumb. 8 year deals are dumb. But for guys like Harper or Arenado soon, they HAVE to be getting 6/7 year deals in their prime, because if they don't NOBODY does and then the system looks worse on down. A lot of these contracts are already looking bad with good FAs signing one and two year deals that aren't really the "rebuild my value" type deals, but just the best offer out there. If Harper or Arenado are taking like 4-year deals at their age, the system needs to be gutted because the scales have tipped from being in the players' favor to being downright questionable from the owners.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 11, 2019 21:14:52 GMT -5
I get why people don't want to do very long contracts. 10 year deals are dumb. 8 year deals are dumb. But for guys like Harper or Arenado soon, they HAVE to be getting 6/7 year deals in their prime, because if they don't NOBODY does and then the system looks worse on down. A lot of these contracts are already looking bad with good FAs signing one and two year deals that aren't really the "rebuild my value" type deals, but just the best offer out there. If Harper or Arenado are taking like 4-year deals at their age, the system needs to be gutted because the scales have tipped from being in the players' favor to being downright questionable from the owners. Oh yeah, even with a higher annual value the MLPA is not going to let star players sign those type of deals because the rest of the market is going to be dragged down tho the market is already getting dragged down thanks to deals not being done in Feb
MLBPA needs to go back to the drawing board because they have to do something in regards to helping players. Agents like Scott Boras can preach success but even he has had hits and misses but his negotiating style is very tire some and having star players sign right before spring training is no fun
I don't forsee deals being less than 6 years for your star type players like Harper, Machado, Arenado etc because their market will not dictate that. In regards to Machado/Harper this year I think their agents got stuck on the fact $400 million was getting thrown around a lot and when they saw that the market was like nah that just isn't affordable they started to play hardball and it doesn't help that no more than 5-6 teams have been on these players
Supposedly Harper has a deal from the Phillies on 12 years and $350 million on the table which i'm sure players like Keuchel and Kimbrel are like sign the shit because they can get their money after
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2019 21:53:01 GMT -5
I get why people don't want to do very long contracts. 10 year deals are dumb. 8 year deals are dumb. But for guys like Harper or Arenado soon, they HAVE to be getting 6/7 year deals in their prime, because if they don't NOBODY does and then the system looks worse on down. A lot of these contracts are already looking bad with good FAs signing one and two year deals that aren't really the "rebuild my value" type deals, but just the best offer out there. If Harper or Arenado are taking like 4-year deals at their age, the system needs to be gutted because the scales have tipped from being in the players' favor to being downright questionable from the owners. The system is broken. I heard a podcast recently that had a player from low-A ball on it and he was asked about minor league pay. They literally get a few hundred dollars a month. Imagine doing that for 3-5 years, and then coming up only to realize that you’ll be making the minimum (around $600k a year) for another three years before three years of arbitration where you’re still not getting paid market value. Now teams are unwilling to go into long term deals with older players, but the players have to wait until they are older before hitting the open market. Something has to change. Baseball is basically getting away with damn near slave wages in the minors and then the players lucky enough to make the Majors have to wait another six years to get paid. It’s crazy. MLBPA is terrible. Every change they have approved has hurt the young players (cap on amateur draft and international spending, luxury tax, etc). A strike probably should happen but I’m not sure it will.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 11, 2019 22:08:05 GMT -5
I get why people don't want to do very long contracts. 10 year deals are dumb. 8 year deals are dumb. But for guys like Harper or Arenado soon, they HAVE to be getting 6/7 year deals in their prime, because if they don't NOBODY does and then the system looks worse on down. A lot of these contracts are already looking bad with good FAs signing one and two year deals that aren't really the "rebuild my value" type deals, but just the best offer out there. If Harper or Arenado are taking like 4-year deals at their age, the system needs to be gutted because the scales have tipped from being in the players' favor to being downright questionable from the owners. The system is broken. I heard a podcast recently that had a player from low-A ball on it and he was asked about minor league pay. They literally get a few hundred dollars a month. Imagine doing that for 3-5 years, and then coming up only to realize that you’ll be making the minimum (around $600k a year) for another three years before three years of arbitration where you’re still not getting paid market value. Now teams are unwilling to go into long term deals with older players, but the players have to wait until they are older before hitting the open market. Something has to change. Baseball is basically getting away with damn near slave wages in the minors and then the players lucky enough to make the Majors have to wait another six years to get paid. It’s crazy. MLBPA is terrible. Every change they have approved has hurt the young players (cap on amateur draft and international spending, luxury tax, etc). A strike probably should happen but I’m not sure it will. The minor league system def needs a bump in pay
Sure you give signing bonuses to your top guys and they will be fine but for everybody else chasing a dream that was a late round pick and got no money that shit must suck
I don't have a overall problem with the 6 years as you do eventually get paid after 3 thanks to arbitration but I do have a problem with clubs manipulating service time (no matter how sound a strategy it is)
Cubs did it with Bryant when he wouldn't sign a contract for his first 6 years of control and there is other examples out there as well with just manipulating time in general despite the player being ready like with Vlad Jr and even Gleyber on Yanks was about to have that same fate until he got injured
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Post by sfvega on Jan 11, 2019 22:57:13 GMT -5
I get why people don't want to do very long contracts. 10 year deals are dumb. 8 year deals are dumb. But for guys like Harper or Arenado soon, they HAVE to be getting 6/7 year deals in their prime, because if they don't NOBODY does and then the system looks worse on down. A lot of these contracts are already looking bad with good FAs signing one and two year deals that aren't really the "rebuild my value" type deals, but just the best offer out there. If Harper or Arenado are taking like 4-year deals at their age, the system needs to be gutted because the scales have tipped from being in the players' favor to being downright questionable from the owners. The system is broken. I heard a podcast recently that had a player from low-A ball on it and he was asked about minor league pay. They literally get a few hundred dollars a month. Imagine doing that for 3-5 years, and then coming up only to realize that you’ll be making the minimum (around $600k a year) for another three years before three years of arbitration where you’re still not getting paid market value. Now teams are unwilling to go into long term deals with older players, but the players have to wait until they are older before hitting the open market. Something has to change. Baseball is basically getting away with damn near slave wages in the minors and then the players lucky enough to make the Majors have to wait another six years to get paid. It’s crazy. MLBPA is terrible. Every change they have approved has hurt the young players (cap on amateur draft and international spending, luxury tax, etc). A strike probably should happen but I’m not sure it will. Oh absolutely. Pham is gone from St. Louis in large part because he was pissed off at the front office because his payday is never gonna come. He's still under team control until he's like 33.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Jan 13, 2019 0:55:17 GMT -5
I don't have a overall problem with the 6 years as you do eventually get paid after 3 thanks to arbitration but I do have a problem with clubs manipulating service time (no matter how sound a strategy it is) Cubs did it with Bryant when he wouldn't sign a contract for his first 6 years of control and there is other examples out there as well with just manipulating time in general despite the player being ready like with Vlad Jr and even Gleyber on Yanks was about to have that same fate until he got injured
The Twins did it this past season to Byron Buxton, and flat out admitted it.
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Post by sfvega on Jan 13, 2019 1:08:53 GMT -5
I don't have a overall problem with the 6 years as you do eventually get paid after 3 thanks to arbitration but I do have a problem with clubs manipulating service time (no matter how sound a strategy it is) Cubs did it with Bryant when he wouldn't sign a contract for his first 6 years of control and there is other examples out there as well with just manipulating time in general despite the player being ready like with Vlad Jr and even Gleyber on Yanks was about to have that same fate until he got injured
The Twins did it this past season to Byron Buxton, and flat out admitted it. Buxton also had a poor year at the plate. Vlad was wrecking AA pitching more than Soto, who got called up and competed for ROY. Now that makes sense for teams, and it WOULD make sense for players if there was a light at the end of the tunnel in big open market contracts or inflated extensions to avoid players hitting the open market, but now that those days are gone, the system is broken.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 13, 2019 15:36:58 GMT -5
I don't have a overall problem with the 6 years as you do eventually get paid after 3 thanks to arbitration but I do have a problem with clubs manipulating service time (no matter how sound a strategy it is) Cubs did it with Bryant when he wouldn't sign a contract for his first 6 years of control and there is other examples out there as well with just manipulating time in general despite the player being ready like with Vlad Jr and even Gleyber on Yanks was about to have that same fate until he got injured
The Twins did it this past season to Byron Buxton, and flat out admitted it. Yea, they were actually upfront about it because even though Buxton was having a bad season in the majors, he rebounded in the minors and people were going to raise eyebrows why wasn't he getting called up in September
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Jan 14, 2019 0:58:48 GMT -5
White Sox have offered Machado an 8 year deal, according to reports
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 14, 2019 2:44:30 GMT -5
White Sox have offered Machado an 8 year deal, according to reports Yea, and Harper is supposed to get offered a 12 year deal from Philly this week
Both guys will have reported deals on the table and we shall see what they do, though I still don't expect either to sign until end of month or first week of Feb
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Jan 14, 2019 3:01:54 GMT -5
White Sox have offered Machado an 8 year deal, according to reports Yea, and Harper is supposed to get offered a 12 year deal from Philly this week Both guys will have reported deals on the table and we shall see what they do, though I still don't expect either to sign until end of month or first week of Feb
I think both deals are bad and insane
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 14, 2019 3:12:38 GMT -5
Yea, and Harper is supposed to get offered a 12 year deal from Philly this week Both guys will have reported deals on the table and we shall see what they do, though I still don't expect either to sign until end of month or first week of Feb
I think both deals are bad and insane Both teams have to spend badly in order to get these players. Reports are Harper wants to breaks Giancarlo contract so he's put emphasis on that which is supposedly reason he didn't sign for $300 million with the Nats
Machado seems like he's chasing the money. Chicago has legit made moves to make him comfortable like getting his brother in law Yonder Alonso and Jon Jay. As I said before Chicago as far as destination goes isn't bad because they have a really good minors system and can flip those players for major league talent if they want to compete immediately but they have a team who can compete for a long while if the prospects do good
Teams like Yanks and Dodgers seem to be playing smart and not just spending because they want a new toy. Yanks made decent moves for Infield talent and they are willing to bet on Andujar. Add on I think they want Nolan Arenado a lot more than they want Machado and if they couldn't get Manny at a decent price than they aren't going crazy. Dodgers and Bryce seem like a logical fit but giving up $350 million isn't in the cards for them either
They both will get good money but both came in thinking their doors were going to be broken down and it ended up not being that way
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Jan 14, 2019 12:59:48 GMT -5
Yankees legend Mel Stottlemyre has passed away.
Rest in Peace.
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Post by häšhtå.gdālėÿ on Jan 14, 2019 13:11:22 GMT -5
It’s not exciting news, but the Giants bring back Derek Holland. He was pretty decent last year, so a nice guy to keep around.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 14, 2019 16:29:18 GMT -5
RIP Mel. IMO one of the most underappreciated Yankees players in the team's history in terms of recognizing how good he was as a pitcher. Career under-3.00 ERA while pitching a ton of innings in his 10 year career, but also pitched in an era when the Yankees were an atrocious team.
Also one of the few people who, as a coach, won World Series with both the Yankees and the Mets. He was on the coaching staff for the '86 Mets and the 90's Yankees dynasty.
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Post by fw91 on Jan 14, 2019 19:09:57 GMT -5
RIP Mel. IMO one of the most underappreciated Yankees players in the team's history in terms of recognizing how good he was as a pitcher. Career under-3.00 ERA while pitching a ton of innings in his 10 year career, but also pitched in an era when the Yankees were an atrocious team. Also one of the few people who, as a coach, won World Series with both the Yankees and the Mets. He was on the coaching staff for the '86 Mets and the 90's Yankees dynasty.
Who else is on that list as a coach? Yogi I know but struggling to think of others.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Jan 15, 2019 7:51:09 GMT -5
RIP Mel. IMO one of the most underappreciated Yankees players in the team's history in terms of recognizing how good he was as a pitcher. Career under-3.00 ERA while pitching a ton of innings in his 10 year career, but also pitched in an era when the Yankees were an atrocious team. Also one of the few people who, as a coach, won World Series with both the Yankees and the Mets. He was on the coaching staff for the '86 Mets and the 90's Yankees dynasty.
Who else is on that list as a coach? Yogi I know but struggling to think of others. Yogi and Mel are the only coaches, I believe. To actually play for both, it's Gooden and Straw.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Jan 15, 2019 13:08:33 GMT -5
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