tms
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,901
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Post by tms on Nov 11, 2018 12:19:31 GMT -5
Remember when Vince reportedly told Carlito to 'spic' up his accent? Don't forget about Eddie Guerrero's accent changing once he sfarted post WCW.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 18:22:29 GMT -5
Donald Sterling isn’t racist either. The Clippers signed/traded for black players and even picked them #1 overall in the draft. I hope this is not where we are heading here.
I mean, Vince is a good business man, but arguing whether he is racist or not is pretty cut and dry. He wasn’t creating satire out there. He was flat out doing racist things on TV (including saying the N word and then intentionally having the camera pan to Booker T first so he could say “see my black employee is ok with it”). I don’t think we need to tap his phone to get confirmation.
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Post by Cyno on Nov 11, 2018 19:46:25 GMT -5
Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if some racist sports team owners get a secret thrill out of having black players work for them because it gives them authority and a manner of control over them. Especially in the NFL with how tilted things are towards the owners' side of things.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,605
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Post by cjh on Nov 11, 2018 19:50:46 GMT -5
Donald Sterling isn’t racist either. The Clippers signed/traded for black players and even picked them #1 overall in the draft. I hope this is not where we are heading here. I mean, Vince is a good business man, but arguing whether he is racist or not is pretty cut and dry. He wasn’t creating satire out there. He was flat out doing racist things on TV (including saying the N word and then intentionally having the camera pan to Booker T first so he could say “see my black employee is ok with it”). I don’t think we need to tap his phone to get confirmation. I thought Vince being completely in the wrong for using that word was the whole point of the skit. If he actually thought it was okay, it's odd that he would write a skit where the audience was clearly meant to laugh at him for being an oblivious dumbass.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 21:37:23 GMT -5
Donald Sterling isn’t racist either. The Clippers signed/traded for black players and even picked them #1 overall in the draft. I hope this is not where we are heading here. I mean, Vince is a good business man, but arguing whether he is racist or not is pretty cut and dry. He wasn’t creating satire out there. He was flat out doing racist things on TV (including saying the N word and then intentionally having the camera pan to Booker T first so he could say “see my black employee is ok with it”). I don’t think we need to tap his phone to get confirmation. I thought Vince being completely in the wrong for using that word was the whole point of the skit. If he actually thought it was okay, it's odd that he would write a skit where the audience was clearly meant to laugh at him for being an oblivious dumbass. There is a weird line between wrestling and other forms of entertainment. The WWE can’t say the N word or anti-gay words, etc, because the characters and the actual people are oddly considered one in the same. GLAAD came after Cena for his anti gay jokes and he stopped doing them after that. There aren’t making movies, it’s a live action variety show, so they don’t get the same leeway as other forms of entertainment. If Vince had the same character today and tried to do it again, he’d be vilified. How he got away with it in the first place is baffling but he certainly wouldn’t do it now. Same thing with how he practically Me Too’d every blonde woman on the roster in the early 2000s and hid behind “it’s a storyline pal!” No way he’d try that again even if he could.
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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Nov 12, 2018 0:27:57 GMT -5
Remember when Vince reportedly told Carlito to 'spic' up his accent? Don't forget about Eddie Guerrero's accent changing once he sfarted post WCW. Or Booker T initially going from respected, hard-working athlete to a buffoon whose run-in with the law was played up more than it ever was in WCW (not to say WCW didn’t also have issues with how he and Stevie Ray were portrayed in the early days)
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Nov 12, 2018 0:51:22 GMT -5
Don't forget about Eddie Guerrero's accent changing once he sfarted post WCW. Or Booker T initially going from respected, hard-working athlete to a buffoon whose run-in with the law was played up more than it ever was in WCW (not to say WCW didn’t also have issues with how he and Stevie Ray were portrayed in the early days) Let's not forget the WrestleMania angle where the guy who repeatedly mocked Booker's run-ins with the law won against him, even though story logic dictates that Book should've won to get vindication.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Nov 12, 2018 2:18:13 GMT -5
Remember when Vince said “that’s gay” at a circus performer not that long ago?
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Post by Cyno on Nov 12, 2018 11:51:56 GMT -5
Or Booker T initially going from respected, hard-working athlete to a buffoon whose run-in with the law was played up more than it ever was in WCW (not to say WCW didn’t also have issues with how he and Stevie Ray were portrayed in the early days) Let's not forget the WrestleMania angle where the guy who repeatedly mocked Booker's run-ins with the law won against him, even though story logic dictates that Book should've won to get vindication. Or just this last year when Jinder Mahal was one "Me so solly!" away from checking off every box in mocking Asian stereotypes in his feud with Shinsuke and he won the feud. And killed a lot of Shinsuke's momentum in the process.
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Post by TheMediocreWarrior on Nov 12, 2018 12:31:24 GMT -5
I thought Vince being completely in the wrong for using that word was the whole point of the skit. If he actually thought it was okay, it's odd that he would write a skit where the audience was clearly meant to laugh at him for being an oblivious dumbass. There is a weird line between wrestling and other forms of entertainment. The WWE can’t say the N word or anti-gay words, etc, because the characters and the actual people are oddly considered one in the same. GLAAD came after Cena for his anti gay jokes and he stopped doing them after that. There aren’t making movies, it’s a live action variety show, so they don’t get the same leeway as other forms of entertainment. If Vince had the same character today and tried to do it again, he’d be vilified. How he got away with it in the first place is baffling but he certainly wouldn’t do it now. Same thing with how he practically Me Too’d every blonde woman on the roster in the early 2000s and hid behind “it’s a storyline pal!” No way he’d try that again even if he could. This is the same reason why I think it's harder to separate "art from artist" in pro-wrestling when a wrestler ends up doing something awful. The character and performer are more closely associated with one another than in any other type of entertainment.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Nov 12, 2018 17:03:16 GMT -5
I really need to stop posting on here late at night when I don't get all my thoughts in - Watts used to push black babyfaces, yes, but he's kind of a quite extreme example of what racism is actually like in day-to-day life. It's not Vince McMahon using the n-bomb on television, it's having these viewpoints, but making... exceptions. The one guy at the store you like is the usual example for everyday folk; for Watts it'd be a black babyface because he knew they'd make money. I don't think anyone was accusing me of such but I definitely want to observe that I was in no way suggesting Watts wasn't racist! He's clearly racist as shit. Muhammad Hassan as a character was not racist. The undertaker angle notwithstanding He unequivocally became one WITH the Taker angle there. They outright abandoned disgruntled Arab-American and had him full on leading masked terrorists including Daivari as 'martyr'. But then the whole character kind of falls down conceptually because Hassan was an Italian guy, wasn't he? Whether you think Shinsuke or Asuka have ended up where they should, they’ve both been paid a f***ing fortune and been treated as serious competitors on TV. New Day treated as a top act. They even seem desperate to bring Del Rio back even if that will cost them money and be a PR nightmare. 70+ year old Vince might not have the most progressive attitude towards race, but Gail Kim saying the whole company is racist? Sorry. Not sold. It's already been mentioned that she wasn't referring to the whole company, but you realise that a few bits of not-racism don't immediately cancel out other racism? The list of former world champions in WWE is a whole shitload of white guys (mostly American ones at that), with a few Hispanic wrestlers and then about one each of any ethnicity that wasn't white. And Nakamura may have been pushed (sort of), but he also had to endure 'me so solly' promos from Jinder, who by the way, was doing a crazy passport Indian guy gimmick at the time. Hey, a WWE title match featuring two non-whites? How does that somehow feature even more racism than usual? I agree. But this is someone who was booted from one company for attitude issues, went on to have exactly the same issues in another company (although they catered to her and were widely mocked for it), and has now come back around to saying that the company that didn’t give her everything she wanted is racist. I guess what I’m trying to say is if Shinsuke, or Asuka, or Hideo, or Akira Tozawa, flew back home tomorrow and immediately told Nippon News that WWE has been racist af to them, I’d understand that completely and think that was an important story. However, someone YEARS after the fact, who has had obvious issues, who carried those issues to a completely different company that indulged them, now putting a former employer on blast should be taken with a very large grain of salt. This is a very good point. Why did she come out now with WWE being racism when she should have done so years ago? To me, she is acting like Shelly Martinez, trashing her former employer by spouting serious accusations. And for what, attention? Sympathy from the IWC? Yeah, it wouldn't surprised me that racism and even cases of rape happen in the WWE, but this should have put on blast in the moment of time, not several years later. Why exactly does not mentioning it immediately as it happened at the time mean it doesn't count? What's the statute of limitations on racism? Because now she doesn't have to worry about being blacklisted for it. Many that worked in the WWE in the past blasted the WWE for thier practices, including people like Bruno Sammartino, Bret Hart, etc... Even some of the women like Sable and Madusa(who put the women's title in a trashcan in another company) and none of them were completely blackballed from the WWE. Also, do you really think ROH or other feds would blackball her for calling the racist practices in the WWE? Why couldn't she work in Japan if she really felt uncomfortable with the racism in the WWE? You might want to pick another example than Madusa, she was blackballed for twenty years.
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