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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 23:33:26 GMT -5
I mean, Tyler breeze showed up. That was cool.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Dec 17, 2018 23:33:55 GMT -5
Obviously long-term change requires the long term, but there's so many structural issues that a single show should still feel like something different. Even if for just one night, to make it seem like there's an attempt. They didn't say "Mr McMahon is coming to effect something that will bring about some manner of change within the coming months", they said he was coming to shake things up. Nothing was shaken. If individual episodes are bad on a structural level and they don't address the structure, then there's no reason for the viewer to see a reason to give them a chance again. That's fair, not my view but fair. I look at the McMahons turning face and admitting they have failed and will make changes based on that as a pretty big change. I don't see anything being big enough to bring back anyone based on one show. It's not a "one big thing" kind of change. It's deeper than that; look at the big anniversary and milestone specials WWE have done in recent years. Raw 25 was a misery show. But it had a huge rating pop because lapsed fans tuned in hoping to see something fun and nostalgia-ey, and there's always some portion of the fanbase who stick around afterward and watches a bit longer to see if things get fun. This year that was pretty much nothing because nobody who was pulled in by Raw 25 was given a show that felt worth f***ing anything. It was terrible, and it drove people away again. That's the kind of factor I'm talking about here; they needed to put on a show that felt different, not make empty promises and say "Our bad" with no real direction to it. Anyone who's been doing other shit on Monday the past month and tuned in because "Maybe something will happen" only for nothing of substance to happen wasn't really given any reason to do anything else. It's a f***y kind of prospect because we have pretaped Christmas Eve Raw next week then New Year's Eve Raw the week after, but I think even in the hourly trends for this week there's a good likelihood those numbers aren't going to be anything stellar. They didn't need to make a huge change or do some drastic bombshell thing to kick off a huge freakout for next week. But they did have eyes on them this week and they did fail to really do much with it, and you can't do with a stunt episode like this. You need something or else everyone who tuned in for your stunt is going to tune right the f*** back out again.
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Post by wildojinx on Dec 17, 2018 23:35:47 GMT -5
Nope, nothing felt new. Had this just been any other episode of RAW without the pandering promo in the beginning of the show I wouldn't have been complaining and just accepted that episode of RAW for what it was. Instead the announcers and talent have to hammer the point that this is the NEW Monday Night RAW and everything still feels absolutely stale and that just intensified the feeling of negativity towards the product. I mean the show began with ALL FOUR of the McMahons opening the show with a promo and concluded with a wrestler from a bygone era who has never connected with the audience winning in the main event. Terrible. Natalya is from a "bygone era"? Wow, now I feel old, I mean moreso than usual.
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Dec 17, 2018 23:41:56 GMT -5
That's fair, not my view but fair. I look at the McMahons turning face and admitting they have failed and will make changes based on that as a pretty big change. I don't see anything being big enough to bring back anyone based on one show. It's not a "one big thing" kind of change. It's deeper than that; look at the big anniversary and milestone specials WWE have done in recent years. Raw 25 was a misery show. But it had a huge rating pop because lapsed fans tuned in hoping to see something fun and nostalgia-ey, and there's always some portion of the fanbase who stick around afterward and watches a bit longer to see if things get fun. This year that was pretty much nothing because nobody who was pulled in by Raw 25 was given a show that felt worth f***ing anything. It was terrible, and it drove people away again. That's the kind of factor I'm talking about here; they needed to put on a show that felt different, not make empty promises and say "Our bad" with no real direction to it. Anyone who's been doing other shit on Monday the past month and tuned in because "Maybe something will happen" only for nothing of substance to happen wasn't really given any reason to do anything else. It's a f***y kind of prospect because we have pretaped Christmas Eve Raw next week then New Year's Eve Raw the week after, but I think even in the hourly trends for this week there's a good likelihood those numbers aren't going to be anything stellar. They didn't need to make a huge change or do some drastic bombshell thing to kick off a huge freakout for next week. But they did have eyes on them this week and they did fail to really do much with it, and you can't do with a stunt episode like this. You need something or else everyone who tuned in for your stunt is going to tune right the f*** back out again. I guess we just have to agree to disagree because I think opening up the show with all the family turning face, about failing everyone, and how they will be making changes overtime to be something, especially as doing crazy stunts to pop ratings for a night is how they got to this point.
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Post by romanstylesiii on Dec 17, 2018 23:44:11 GMT -5
A small thing would be having a world champion on the show who defends it on said show once in a while
I don't see how Brock Lesnar as champ is doing anything but harm right now
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Post by Nickybojelais on Dec 17, 2018 23:44:19 GMT -5
Emphasising fresh matchups shows that they really don't understand what the problem actually is.
Rock and HHH constantly fought each other, Benoit and Jericho seemed to fight every week for a two year period. But we didn't mind because each contest was part of a multi-layered and evolving feud. The feud did not primarily consist of them facing each other in the ring like most of todays "feuds" seem to be based on.
Fans don't mind rematches if you just put the effort into creating compelling reasons for why they are facing each other...it's not difficult!
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 17, 2018 23:49:35 GMT -5
I understand the wait and see attitude, but given how this was a terrible first impression and they don't seem to be making much change for next week and the backstage mentality is that the ratings problems will "All blow over in January", it really implies this is a half-hearted excuse to try and get people to come back when it's the same old shit again. And again. And again.
Issue for WWE now is if the ratings dont improve, and they keep getting worse, not only is USA gonna be on their ass but FOX especially is gonna be on their ass. So they kinda need to change, because this isn't gonna cut it.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 18, 2018 0:10:22 GMT -5
The key words in Trips' spiel were "in the coming weeks" and "coming months", so I dunno why some folks were expecting everything to magically change within one night. Whether or not they live up to that claim is anyone's guess, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for at least a month. They need RAW to be watchable and good NOW so when the change finally maybe happens officially fans are still here to watch it.
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Chiral
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Post by Chiral on Dec 18, 2018 0:11:20 GMT -5
Me @ the McMahons for the big announcement being an apology followed by the same old stuff:
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Dec 18, 2018 0:25:02 GMT -5
I haven’t watched it, but my guess is no.
Like you can have all the cool new superstars come up, but when you have the same pointless 30 minute matches but just with new people isn’t gonna make things better. Opening the show with the same 20 minute promo, and then having same dudes do the same thing they’ve been doing for months is gonna change anything.
Like oh man, I can’t wait to watch Lacey Evans face Tamina for 2 goddamn segment. Like neato man, that’s sure to bring the house down.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2018 0:26:16 GMT -5
IMO with the constant shit after shit they keep putting out they are in no place to be asking anyone to PLEEEEEEASE BE PATIENT WE PROMISE IT GETS BETTER
Tonight should have had SOMETHING that says their usual meaningless dribble...is not just their useless meaningless dribble.
They have burned people too many damn times...for anyone outside of their strict devotees to buy into empty promises anymore...if they aren't showing then it means nothing
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MAGGLE
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Post by MAGGLE on Dec 18, 2018 0:37:37 GMT -5
I was shocked when they came out and apologized. After that they bullied an employee for 20mins and gave the same people promo time with bad writing. I am willing to wait this out until January, after that I´ll call BS.
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Perd
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Post by Perd on Dec 18, 2018 0:37:41 GMT -5
It’s not a question of waiting and seeing. Because there is nothing to wait for and see. What they said meat nothing. It was empty platitudes about listening to fans. It was about “new” this and “fresh” that. And not one detail about what that might entail. Again, NXT call-ups are not something new. It told me that they don’t have any answers. So, they just went out there and said stuff that sounds like something, when it’s actually nothing.
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Post by sportatorium on Dec 18, 2018 0:38:13 GMT -5
Yes- No more antiquated rematch clauses, no more Lucha House Rules. If not for the ring banner, I wouldn’t have known what show is on.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2018 0:38:59 GMT -5
Someone made a good point. On December 15, 1997 Vince ushered in the Attitude Era with his speech. On that night we got Austin throwing the IC title into the river and DX vs LoD but what we also had was Mark Henry vs The Brooklyn Brawler, Tom Brandi vs The Sultan and Blackman vs Jose Estrada. Basically there's time to build so I'll see what comes of this.
Tonight we see all the McMahons run the shows now, the end of the rematch clause rule, an open challenge opportunity for Breeze, new stars being announced and other stuff. The biggest thing is that they announced they f***ed up and they made it seem as though they were really speaking from the heart for most of it so that was huge.
Guess we'll see how things are after WM.
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Post by bearned on Dec 18, 2018 0:39:14 GMT -5
To me it seemed like they probably have no idea what they are actually going to do and are buying themselves time to work it out.
Whatever happened behind the scenes has clearly spooked them. Wether or not it actually does lead to better shows, we’ll just have to wait and see I guess. The opening promo did scream ‘panic mode’ though.
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Super Duper Dragunov
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Post by Super Duper Dragunov on Dec 18, 2018 0:40:16 GMT -5
No but they did clearly say it wouldn't happen in one night at the start of the show. This. I'm going to be patient and see what happens in January since that's been so heavily referenced. They tried to fix what they could in a way. I see some effort. Revival get their shot, the women were heavily featured (the booking was just wrong), and hell Tyler Breeze got screentime. Outside of Vince outright retiring, this was going to be a slow process, and kind of bad timing for them since it's at one of their worst times of the year historically with the holidays right around the corner. So, yeah, I won't get my torches and pitchforks out just yet. It was still an average Raw, but it's better than the negative shitshow it had been.
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Dec 18, 2018 1:13:55 GMT -5
I understand the wait and see attitude, but given how this was a terrible first impression and they don't seem to be making much change for next week and the backstage mentality is that the ratings problems will "All blow over in January", it really implies this is a half-hearted excuse to try and get people to come back when it's the same old shit again. And again. And again. Issue for WWE now is if the ratings dont improve, and they keep getting worse, not only is USA gonna be on their ass but FOX especially is gonna be on their ass. So they kinda need to change, because this isn't gonna cut it. FOX will only care about SD and I haven't heard as much hate for it lately as there has been for RAW. And USA doesn't give the hind portion of an airborne rodent about how RAW is doing as long as it's the top show on their network. What are they really going to rely on? Chrisley? More dumb reality shows similar to his? SVU reruns?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2018 1:29:41 GMT -5
This is pretty much that Caddyshack scene:
Spalding: "I want a hot dog, no, I want a hamburger, I want a cheeseburger..."
Judge: "You'll get NOTHING and LIKE IT!"
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beefy
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Post by beefy on Dec 18, 2018 1:32:30 GMT -5
I understand that "fixing RAW" isn't a one night process. But it's also not unreasonable for fans to expect some major, sweeping change that has an immediate impact. As in, an impact that can be felt, seen, and understood within the confines of a 3 hour program.
There was nothing sweeping about anything tonight. It was all just as pedestrian, and formulaic, as the RAWs that have preceded it. A format change would have really helped tonight.
Peep this: that opening segment, with the McMahons, Baron, and Kurt and The Misfits In Action took 25 minutes and two commercial breaks. 25 minutes, 3 segments, for nothing but promises and a repeat of the Baron Beatdown. They couldn't have wrapped it up before the first commercial break? Or shortened that match to squeeze it into a segment?
And then, after all that "fresh" jazz, we get a match between Dolph and Finn. FRESH! NEW! Also happened a few weeks ago!
"Wait and see" is totally viable, because maybe they have some things planned... but tonight wasn't a night to basically say "wait and see" to the audience. After some very public displays of disapproval, you'd think they'd want to nail something to the wall to say "See? Things are about to get good, and here's what it is!" Instead, it was the usual lack of urgency and energy.
But hey. No more rematches! No more Lucha House Rules! No more Baron, because we got McMahons! FRESH!
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