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Post by lildude8218 on Feb 14, 2019 21:52:19 GMT -5
Good times.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 14, 2019 23:03:39 GMT -5
Been rewatching the old 2006 shows in order to remember why I loved Chikara, and...man, remember Wiggly? Whatever happened to that guy? Wiggly was a huge part of what made CHIKARA production amazing, eventually he just... stopped. I don't know why.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 14, 2019 23:04:09 GMT -5
And then they were JUST shown in that Kevin owens clip bowling with him so nothing has changed
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EyeofTyr
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Post by EyeofTyr on Feb 15, 2019 0:55:37 GMT -5
Been rewatching the old 2006 shows in order to remember why I loved Chikara, and...man, remember Wiggly? Whatever happened to that guy? Wiggly was a huge part of what made CHIKARA production amazing, eventually he just... stopped. I don't know why. From what I've read and been told, there was a falling out between Quack and him that led to that. It wasn't so bad as some of the falling out's have been, hence Wiggly's swan song on PCAGG and Wiggly still sometimes attending events, but it was the catalyst of Wiggly ceasing his working on CHIKARA's production side. Shame too. Like you said, Wiggly helped really give CHIKARA an identity in terms of production, his co-hosting of many of the PCAGG its first few years and the music he lent to the company. It was minor too, but Chiz to a lesser degree too.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 15, 2019 0:58:35 GMT -5
Expectations is another reason why Chikara feels hollow. You watch those old shows, and they had people disappearing suddenly, too. Storylines petering out. Stuff happening and then going nowhere. But hey, it's just some ragtag indie, so let's focus on the (not rare) stuff that DOES hold together!
But now, when Chikara has sloppy storytelling, the're hurt by the fans' previous expectations. We've seen situations where "Holy shit Dr. Cube was Jakob all along!?" and "Oh my god, Vokoder was Tim Donst?!" We've followed storylines from start to payoff like the Archie/Veronica saga, Oleg's rejection of DevCorp, and Icarus's redemption. We know they can do better.
I think the current storyline involving the title was absolutely fantastic last season... Hatfield's turn was both logical and shocking. But they couldn't do anything ELSE. No one gives a f*** about the New Colony (Fire Ant shoulda turned on them and joined the new FIST). All the monster heels (including the new FIST, who could be money) are useless schmucks. Lucas Calhoun's thing is just bewildering.
Another thing I noticed? A lot of Chikara's storylines are better in retrospect. The whole Oceanea thing is something I think is pretty tight and well done, looking back, but oh man did I ever not give a damn while it was happening.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Feb 15, 2019 1:10:45 GMT -5
Expectations is another reason why Chikara feels hollow. You watch those old shows, and they had people disappearing suddenly, too. Storylines petering out. Stuff happening and then going nowhere. But hey, it's just some ragtag indie, so let's focus on the (not rare) stuff that DOES hold together! But now, when Chikara has sloppy storytelling, the're hurt by the fans' previous expectations. We've seen situations where "Holy shit Dr. Cube was Jakob all along!?" and "Oh my god, Vokoder was Tim Donst?!" We've followed storylines from start to payoff like the Archie/Veronica saga, Oleg's rejection of DevCorp, and Icarus's redemption. We know they can do better. I think the current storyline involving the title was absolutely fantastic last season... Hatfield's turn was both logical and shocking. But they couldn't do anything ELSE. No one gives a f*** about the New Colony (Fire Ant shoulda turned on them and joined the new FIST). All the monster heels (including the new FIST, who could be money) are useless schmucks. Lucas Calhoun's thing is just bewildering. Another thing I noticed? A lot of Chikara's storylines are better in retrospect. The whole Oceanea thing is something I think is pretty tight and well done, looking back, but oh man did I ever not give a damn while it was happening. What's fascinating is, from the very ending of Tag World 05, it provided this amazingly coherent through-line where everything could more or less be tied back to Hero turning on Quack, to the point where it was STILL relevant pretty damn deep into the whole "corporate takeover" arc. Then the season after the promotion's "rebirth" ended, and it seemed like they more or less hit a hard reset on most of the storylines with the insipid CotI tournament, and they've never been able to regain the interest for me.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 15, 2019 15:59:14 GMT -5
Expectations is another reason why Chikara feels hollow. You watch those old shows, and they had people disappearing suddenly, too. Storylines petering out. Stuff happening and then going nowhere. But hey, it's just some ragtag indie, so let's focus on the (not rare) stuff that DOES hold together! But now, when Chikara has sloppy storytelling, the're hurt by the fans' previous expectations. We've seen situations where "Holy shit Dr. Cube was Jakob all along!?" and "Oh my god, Vokoder was Tim Donst?!" We've followed storylines from start to payoff like the Archie/Veronica saga, Oleg's rejection of DevCorp, and Icarus's redemption. We know they can do better. I think the current storyline involving the title was absolutely fantastic last season... Hatfield's turn was both logical and shocking. But they couldn't do anything ELSE. No one gives a f*** about the New Colony (Fire Ant shoulda turned on them and joined the new FIST). All the monster heels (including the new FIST, who could be money) are useless schmucks. Lucas Calhoun's thing is just bewildering. Another thing I noticed? A lot of Chikara's storylines are better in retrospect. The whole Oceanea thing is something I think is pretty tight and well done, looking back, but oh man did I ever not give a damn while it was happening. What's fascinating is, from the very ending of Tag World 05, it provided this amazingly coherent through-line where everything could more or less be tied back to Hero turning on Quack, to the point where it was STILL relevant pretty damn deep into the whole "corporate takeover" arc. Then the season after the promotion's "rebirth" ended, and it seemed like they more or less hit a hard reset on most of the storylines with the insipid CotI tournament, and they've never been able to regain the interest for me. They really lost me at the "Lost Season" thing, where they had Ultramantis Black's big title reign on a taped show. People can try to explain that away or say it was done well, nah fam, as someone who was there live when Envoy won King of Trios, the fans deserved to be there for Mantis's big moment, and it was cut away from everyone, for some weird time skip dimension thing that STILL hasn't really been explained (Because the only reason it was really done was to write Kimberlee out of the promotion, that lasted long). Let alone how bad his title reign was after the fact so we couldn't even enjoy it in any regard, especially since it was followed by the Juan Fransisco reign of terror.
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Post by sushiburrito on Feb 15, 2019 23:26:47 GMT -5
There wasn’t a time skip. It just happened between seasons.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 16, 2019 1:04:53 GMT -5
There wasn’t a time skip. It just happened between seasons. No it was a timeskip. It was confirmed to be so, even multiple wrestlers tweeted how it felt like they "Lost a year" or something weird happened.
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Post by sushiburrito on Feb 16, 2019 10:13:45 GMT -5
The previous season ended.
Secret season took place.
Next season started.
Then secret season started to air on chikaratopia.
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Rave
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Post by Rave on Feb 16, 2019 13:02:37 GMT -5
There wasn’t a time skip. It just happened between seasons. No it was a timeskip. It was confirmed to be so, even multiple wrestlers tweeted how it felt like they "Lost a year" or something weird happened. There wasn't actually a timeskip. The entire thing was a Lost reference. If they'd stayed true to the idea of a "bingeable season" and dropped the entire thing at once, I think people would've taken more kindly to that. I know the staggered releases pissed me off, as it wreaked absolute havoc in trying to keep the point standings in order. Nobody knew what the hell was going on.
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Post by IgnahtaSempria on Feb 16, 2019 13:10:11 GMT -5
No it was a timeskip. It was confirmed to be so, even multiple wrestlers tweeted how it felt like they "Lost a year" or something weird happened. There wasn't actually a timeskip. The entire thing was a Lost reference. If they'd stayed true to the idea of a "bingeable season" and dropped the entire thing at once, I think people would've taken more kindly to that. I know the staggered releases pissed me off, as it wreaked absolute havoc in trying to keep the point standings in order. Nobody knew what the hell was going on. It certainly didn't help that there were matches and segments that were clearly presented out of order.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 13:13:14 GMT -5
Also, is it just me perhaps, but why does it seem that every time we have a discussion about the rise and fall of CHIKARA, somebody from the C101 boards has to come in and act like the company is invincible? Listen, we understand if you like CHIKARA today, that's fine. But seriously, if you can, go back and look at previous seasons and tell us that something is wrong?
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Rave
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Post by Rave on Feb 16, 2019 14:30:50 GMT -5
There wasn't actually a timeskip. The entire thing was a Lost reference. If they'd stayed true to the idea of a "bingeable season" and dropped the entire thing at once, I think people would've taken more kindly to that. I know the staggered releases pissed me off, as it wreaked absolute havoc in trying to keep the point standings in order. Nobody knew what the hell was going on. It certainly didn't help that there were matches and segments that were clearly presented out of order. This too. Is that another Lost thing? I've never watched more than an episode or two, so I don't know if it is or not, but I know that it certainly didn't help the Furies any at the very least.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Feb 16, 2019 14:35:37 GMT -5
Another thing I'm getting from watching these old shows....f***, I miss Sweeney.
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EyeofTyr
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Post by EyeofTyr on Feb 16, 2019 15:34:01 GMT -5
It certainly didn't help that there were matches and segments that were clearly presented out of order. This too. Is that another Lost thing? I've never watched more than an episode or two, so I don't know if it is or not, but I know that it certainly didn't help the Furies any at the very least. Yeah, LOST had a habit of showing flashbacks, and eventually flash forwards and even further down the line side flashes (as in alternate reality to the mainline one), in tiny snippets that had just enough to be teaser bait and have people going "WTF?!" before generally showing it in greater context later. Usually with another flashback/forward/side, occasionally and the best use of it being when it would flow straight into whatever scene we got a teaser of earlier. Generally speaking there was never an in universe explanation for these flashes either, it was only us the viewers that were seeing them. I too miss Sweeney so badly. Between his unfortunate fate and Kingston retiring this year in all likelihood, it really feels a huge hole's going to exist in indie wrestling in terms of guys like those two that were so captivating when cutting a promo.
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Feb 16, 2019 17:57:57 GMT -5
I think CHIKARA made the wrong move putting the title on UltraMantis Black during the secret season. Fans loved him. They were a part of his journey for so long. He was retired and suddenly not only did he return but he’d already won the title. CHIKARA could’ve gotten a lot of buzz on them by advertising UltraMantis Black’s return match. Fans would’ve followed his accumulation of three points and would’ve been so excited for his title win over Hallowicked. They could’ve gottten an amazing season and a lot of fans loving CHIKARA again with of all of that.
Instead the fans came back for the new season only to be told they missed a season. They also missed UltraMantis Black’s return and his title victory. They were confused. It was all a stunt to get subscribers for CHIKARATopia. They blew their load hoping that would drive loads of fans to want to sign up. Instead most felt like they missed the biggest moment in CHIKARA history and were understandably disappointed. They’d followed UltraMantis Black for years and now they were left out of his story. Everything they wanted already happened.
I think they should’ve went with Fire Ant. He’s very popular too but he doesn’t do promos so he can’t hype a feud for the title enough. Fans still would’ve been curious to see him win it. Fans would be happy he was given some recognition like that. That might have worked better for them.
Imagine if we found out that ECW’s Barely Legal happened but we didn’t know about it until after it did and suddenly we’re told that Terry Funk was champion. That would’ve hurt ECW too. You shouldn’t deprive your audience of big moments they crave only to tell them they happened but they missed it. We can watch loads of recorded matches any time. You can only be there live for big moments once.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 18:10:35 GMT -5
Another thing I'm getting from watching these old shows....f***, I miss Sweeney. Sweeney laughing at the Ants’ entrance music pausing, and them pausing with it, always gets me.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 16, 2019 18:30:33 GMT -5
No it was a timeskip. It was confirmed to be so, even multiple wrestlers tweeted how it felt like they "Lost a year" or something weird happened. There wasn't actually a timeskip. The entire thing was a Lost reference. If they'd stayed true to the idea of a "bingeable season" and dropped the entire thing at once, I think people would've taken more kindly to that. I know the staggered releases pissed me off, as it wreaked absolute havoc in trying to keep the point standings in order. Nobody knew what the hell was going on. They blew a huge opportunity to screw with fans in a way that Chikara die-hards, at least, would have eaten up (though it may have been a barrier to new fans). UMB started the new season with the title... that means he beat Hallowicked during the LOST season. But what if he hadn't? What if Hallowicked wins the culminating match during the fake season? UMB and Bryce watch the tape from the recorded show and they're shocked. "That's not how it went!" Now both dudes are somehow champ at the same time, and there's chaos. Ashley Vox is sometimes evil and sometimes good. Worker Ant retires from his injury, then comes out at the next show, right as rain. This all leads to a showdown to not only unite the titles, but unite the timelines. Now UMB gets his shining moment. Dude, you're Chikara. BE WACKY.
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Rave
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Post by Rave on Feb 16, 2019 18:37:47 GMT -5
There wasn't actually a timeskip. The entire thing was a Lost reference. If they'd stayed true to the idea of a "bingeable season" and dropped the entire thing at once, I think people would've taken more kindly to that. I know the staggered releases pissed me off, as it wreaked absolute havoc in trying to keep the point standings in order. Nobody knew what the hell was going on. They blew a huge opportunity to screw with fans in a way that Chikara die-hards, at least, would have eaten up (though it may have been a barrier to new fans). UMB started the new season with the title... that means he beat Hallowicked during the LOST season. But what if he hadn't? What if Hallowicked wins the culminating match during the fake season? UMB and Bryce watch the tape from the recorded show and they're shocked. "That's not how it went!" Now both dudes are somehow champ at the same time, and there's chaos. Ashley Vox is sometimes evil and sometimes good. Worker Ant retires from his injury, then comes out at the next show, right as rain. This all leads to a showdown to not only unite the titles, but unite the timelines. Now UMB gets his shining moment. Dude, you're Chikara. BE WACKY. As much as a pain tracking the whole thing was, I'd have been all over that. We've had multiple instances of time travel, why not alternate timelines?
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