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Post by eJm on Feb 23, 2019 18:28:27 GMT -5
Legit sport requires stars to make money. ALL Sports do. Why the hell do you think UFC's been struggling for the last few years and has been willing to get in people who've failed drug tests like Jon Jones and Brock Lesnar to come back? Because they drew. Nobody outside of LA heard of LA Galaxy before David Beckham was signed, Michael Jordan is the reason the NBA became a way bigger thing and people cared about Olympic Basketball, Tom Brady is the biggest heat magnet in the NFL, Usain Bolt is still the biggest name in Olympics history along with Michael Phelps. I'll carry on but I think I made my point. ok we'll agree to disagree then. You can't compare shoot sports to entertainment. But whatever It's not even agreeing to disagree at this point, all things require stars to make money. At one point, the biggest box office in film was a 5'8 man named Tom Cruise. Not exactly larger than life in stance but larger than life in personality. Wrestling's about personality. You give nobody a personality good enough to draw, nobody gives a damn. Hell, if you want to look at it, Austin wasn't exactly built like Hogan but he ACTED like he could kick anyone's ass. He was dwarfed by most of his opponents and kicked ass and made people believe.
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Post by prichardmark on Feb 23, 2019 18:30:44 GMT -5
Again.. You're comparing apples and oranges though. You're comparing worked sport that relies solely on stars, larger than life characters to make money to a shoot, legit sport. I would say its for sure..... Outside of Randy Savage, what smaller guy drew to the level of those I mentioned in professional wrestling over the last 35 years? Those shoot sports are also based on stars. When I said Conor McGregor is 155, I don't mean "And he was a UFC Champion!" I mean, "And he was the biggest star in UFC!" McGregor, Rousey, etc. are shorter people who are mega stars that drew money. Just because wrestling is a work does not mean that smaller guys aren't able to draw money, it means that it is more inexcusable that the shorter wrestlers aren't drawing money because the damn show is rigged! If Conor McGregor got knocked out in 10 seconds every fight, he wouldn't have drawn; he was only able to draw because he is both a good fighter AND an attention grabbing personality. Just because he's small doesn't mean he can't draw attention, just as the fact the Finn Balor, et al, are small doesn't mean they can't draw money. The reason they haven't drawn money is because Vince McMahon is a shitty booker. Guys like McGregor/Mayweather have those larger than life personalities like Randy Savage. But they also got the "legit shoot records" to back up the trash talking. You can't compare that to WWE regardless. Speaking of Rousey. She aint drawing huge drawing weekly numbers despite the MILLIONS of bucks she's getting despite main eventing most Raws and probably WM. So that kind of proves my point. You can't compare shoot with work
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Post by eJm on Feb 23, 2019 18:33:54 GMT -5
Those shoot sports are also based on stars. When I said Conor McGregor is 155, I don't mean "And he was a UFC Champion!" I mean, "And he was the biggest star in UFC!" McGregor, Rousey, etc. are shorter people who are mega stars that drew money. Just because wrestling is a work does not mean that smaller guys aren't able to draw money, it means that it is more inexcusable that the shorter wrestlers aren't drawing money because the damn show is rigged! If Conor McGregor got knocked out in 10 seconds every fight, he wouldn't have drawn; he was only able to draw because he is both a good fighter AND an attention grabbing personality. Just because he's small doesn't mean he can't draw attention, just as the fact the Finn Balor, et al, are small doesn't mean they can't draw money. The reason they haven't drawn money is because Vince McMahon is a shitty booker. Guys like McGregor/Mayweather have those larger than life personalities like Randy Savage. But they also got the "legit shoot records" to back up the trash talking. You can't compare that to WWE regardless. Speaking of Rousey. She aint drawing huge drawing weekly numbers despite the MILLIONS of bucks she's getting despite main eventing most Raws and probably WM. So that kind of proves my point. You can't compare shoot with work But now you're literally comparing apples to oranges. You're comparing a product that was on a high and rising (McGregor's UFC) to one that's losing popularity and doesn't know how to build people right (WWE). If Ronda's on TV every week and not being played up to her strengths and treated like everyone else, of course she's not going to draw. UFC at least built anticipation to her fights and didn't have her fight on every Fight Pass or FOX broadcast.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Feb 23, 2019 18:34:08 GMT -5
Those shoot sports are also based on stars. When I said Conor McGregor is 155, I don't mean "And he was a UFC Champion!" I mean, "And he was the biggest star in UFC!" McGregor, Rousey, etc. are shorter people who are mega stars that drew money. Just because wrestling is a work does not mean that smaller guys aren't able to draw money, it means that it is more inexcusable that the shorter wrestlers aren't drawing money because the damn show is rigged! If Conor McGregor got knocked out in 10 seconds every fight, he wouldn't have drawn; he was only able to draw because he is both a good fighter AND an attention grabbing personality. Just because he's small doesn't mean he can't draw attention, just as the fact the Finn Balor, et al, are small doesn't mean they can't draw money. The reason they haven't drawn money is because Vince McMahon is a shitty booker. Guys like McGregor/Mayweather have those larger than life personalities like Randy Savage. But they also got the "legit shoot records" to back up the trash talking. You can't compare that to WWE regardless. Speaking of Rousey. She aint drawing huge drawing weekly numbers despite the MILLIONS of bucks she's getting despite main eventing most Raws and probably WM. So that kind of proves my point. You can't compare shoot with work You're not proving any points. You're just ranting about "tiny people".
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Sicho100
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Post by Sicho100 on Feb 23, 2019 18:37:20 GMT -5
Those shoot sports are also based on stars. When I said Conor McGregor is 155, I don't mean "And he was a UFC Champion!" I mean, "And he was the biggest star in UFC!" McGregor, Rousey, etc. are shorter people who are mega stars that drew money. Just because wrestling is a work does not mean that smaller guys aren't able to draw money, it means that it is more inexcusable that the shorter wrestlers aren't drawing money because the damn show is rigged! If Conor McGregor got knocked out in 10 seconds every fight, he wouldn't have drawn; he was only able to draw because he is both a good fighter AND an attention grabbing personality. Just because he's small doesn't mean he can't draw attention, just as the fact the Finn Balor, et al, are small doesn't mean they can't draw money. The reason they haven't drawn money is because Vince McMahon is a shitty booker. Guys like McGregor/Mayweather have those larger than life personalities like Randy Savage. But they also got the "legit shoot records" to back up the trash talking. You can't compare that to WWE regardless. Speaking of Rousey. She aint drawing huge drawing weekly numbers despite the MILLIONS of bucks she's getting despite main eventing most Raws and probably WM. So that kind of proves my point. You can't compare shoot with work She's not drawing massive numbers because the show's booking is shit. For example, despite the fact that this started by criticizing people like Balor and Sasha, you know who has been pushed harder than either of them pretty consistently over the past couple of years? Braun Strowman. Fun fact about Braun Strowman: He's tall. So why has viewership been down? Another guy pushed really heavily over the past few years? Roman Reigns. Reigns is larger than Stone Cold. So, why did viewership fall by about a million viewers from the summer of 2015 until the summer of last year? It's almost as if the culprit is the fact that the booking is shit, and not because wrestlers are 5'10".
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2019 18:38:38 GMT -5
It’ll probably end up being good having someone there that knows how to navigate Vince
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Post by prichardmark on Feb 23, 2019 18:39:04 GMT -5
Guys like McGregor/Mayweather have those larger than life personalities like Randy Savage. But they also got the "legit shoot records" to back up the trash talking. You can't compare that to WWE regardless. Speaking of Rousey. She aint drawing huge drawing weekly numbers despite the MILLIONS of bucks she's getting despite main eventing most Raws and probably WM. So that kind of proves my point. You can't compare shoot with work You're not proving any points. You're just ranting about "tiny people". Look is a big part of it. Being big and larger than life is a big part of pro wrestling. Has been for the last 3-4 decades. Thats just the reality of it. Whether its "right or "wrong" its reality. Like I said, the biggest draws, the biggest money makers of pro wrestling have been BIG GUYS. Thats the reality of it. Big guys have drawn historically. Small guys.. Not so much
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2019 18:50:52 GMT -5
Remember when those BIG GUYS Luther Reigns, Nathan Jones and Mark Jindrak ushered in a new boom period?
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 23, 2019 18:52:50 GMT -5
Guys like McGregor/Mayweather have those larger than life personalities like Randy Savage. But they also got the "legit shoot records" to back up the trash talking. You can't compare that to WWE regardless. Speaking of Rousey. She aint drawing huge drawing weekly numbers despite the MILLIONS of bucks she's getting despite main eventing most Raws and probably WM. So that kind of proves my point. You can't compare shoot with work You're not proving any points. You're just ranting about "tiny people".
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Post by Rudy Gobert Fadeaway on Feb 23, 2019 18:53:38 GMT -5
I'll bench press Johnny Gargano I don't give a f***
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Post by prichardmark on Feb 23, 2019 19:02:50 GMT -5
Remember when those BIG GUYS Luther Reigns, Nathan Jones and Mark Jindrak ushered in a new boom period? How many cruiserweights/200 pound guys did? You can name a 6-12 big guys that did. No tiny 6 foot/200 pound guys last I checked. The only examples anyone has come up with have been in boxing and UFC.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2019 19:03:54 GMT -5
I’m indifferent
He’s kinda a yes man, and you could tell on his show he never really spoke against WWE to much in case this day would come.
But he has decades of knowage and is better than some failed sitcom writer.
Can’t be worse than Road Dog.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Feb 23, 2019 19:05:39 GMT -5
Can’t be worse than Road Dog. This is the most correct thing spoken all day across the world.
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Post by prichardmark on Feb 23, 2019 19:08:02 GMT -5
I’m indifferent He’s kinda a yes man, and you could tell on his show he never really spoke against WWE to much in case this day would come. But he has decades of knowage and is better than some failed sitcom writer. Can’t be worse than Road Dog. HHH/Stephanie will probably blackball Prichard at the end of the day especially if he comes in and the ratings spike. Stephanie probably holds grudges from the last time Prichard was around and she doesn't want to see someone like Prichard come in and institute a more character/storyline driven RAW and see it successful. That will only Make the previous team look poor in comparison. Just as when Heyman grew Smackdown's ratings to overtake RAW. It wasn't long after that he was sent to OVW
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Feb 23, 2019 19:09:18 GMT -5
You're seriously blaming the average height of wrestlers for the hole WWE has been in? Its part of it for sure. Not all of it of course. . . People tune in to see larger than life characters HISTORICALLY. (Hogan, Goldberg, Cena, Andre, Warrior, Rock,) Not cruiserweights or tiny guys Hi, Vince.
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Post by lildude8218 on Feb 23, 2019 19:09:27 GMT -5
Conrad accidentally confirmed this on What Happened When either this week or last week. I'm surprised it didn't get picked up on then. Unless people assumed he was referring to the Network show when he said they "took Bruce back."
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Feb 23, 2019 19:11:44 GMT -5
ok we'll agree to disagree then. You can't compare shoot sports to entertainment. But whatever It's not even agreeing to disagree at this point, all things require stars to make money. At one point, the biggest box office in film was a 5'8 man named Tom Cruise. Not exactly larger than life in stance but larger than life in personality. Wrestling's about personality. You give nobody a personality good enough to draw, nobody gives a damn. Hell, if you want to look at it, Austin wasn't exactly built like Hogan but he ACTED like he could kick anyone's ass. He was dwarfed by most of his opponents and kicked ass and made people believe. Jerry Lawler is a short, fat, stocky man. But that guy had a mouth and personality to burn. If a bodybuilder physique was all you needed to be a star in wrestling, Tom McGee would have been a bigger star than Jimmy Valiant.
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Feb 23, 2019 19:16:11 GMT -5
I just clicked the latest page so far, am I in the right thread? Did the board glitch? What happened?
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Post by Dub H on Feb 23, 2019 19:17:34 GMT -5
Even if he did fire them so what? Balor is fighting heavyweights and he weighs 120 pounds. For Christ sakes I was bigger than he is in 7th grade. Why does he get to fight on the main roster when you got 205 where he belongs?? Kind of a double standard there? he's the only tiny guy who doesn't have to be on 205. Instead he's been a world "heavyweight" champion and he isn't a heavyweight. . Zayne is a jobber basically. Sasha is fine. But WWE would go on without her if she's gone. Just about everything in this post is wrong No one is interested in hearing about the antiquated "him small, me only want big guys" belief. Even if it's true, which it's not. Wrestling is mostly a nerd thing these days, since it is very simialr to stuff like comic books and hero movies,animes,etc. The me like big man because MANLY is really old news. And sure ,different cultures but NJPW is doing better than ever an all their main stars are not big guys(Omega, White, Okada,Tanahashi,Naito). The main problem is that vince doesnt want to adapt to that culture and focus on the guys that public wants. He tries on focusing on guys that had bigger than life looks and personality(Roman Reigns ,Cena AGAIN and Brock for example) so he can attract all of mainstreams and sure they have their place,but things don't work like that anymore. And you cant even blame small guys because Wrestling was still in Decline when Cena and Batista were competitors.It only saw Spikes in popularity when Guys like CM Punk and Bryan were the focus.Hell one of the ONLY 3 hour RAWs to keep a steady ratings had FREAKING ENZO,in the main event,and MATT HARDY COMPOUND had great views,so size doesnt matter,what matters is that you are ENTERTAINING,be inside the ring or outside.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Feb 23, 2019 19:18:51 GMT -5
As long as the old man's calling the shots, shaking up the rest of the creative team is never going to amount to more than rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Vince can hire and fire whoever he wants and pat himself on the back that he's shaking things up, but at the end of the day he still has final say over the product, and I have no doubt he'll overrule anybody trying to push WWE out of his comfort zone.
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