Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Sept 4, 2019 0:22:09 GMT -5
I get what you are saying, but all Bruce said is that the stone has to return to the MOMENT it disappeared, not the location. For example, removing the Reality Stone from Jane Foster did not endanger that timeline. After all, it gets done in the main timeline as well. Removing it from existing in the timeline while the other Infinity Stones are present is what endangers it. Technically, winking in the exact moment that the stone gets taken to the main timeline is sufficient to prevent the lack of the stone to destabilize the universe in that timeline. The real rub is what he does with the stones upon arriving. Technically, simply showing up and setting the stone on the ground is the minimum required to achieve mission parameters. Knowing a character like Rogers, however, he isn't simply going to do that. Honestly, showing up and hitching a ride to Asgard in each timeline to leave that timeline's stone in Odin's vault isn't the dumbest idea. After all, the Battle of New York need not happen in one timeline if the Space Stone is already off of Earth. That also means the Mind Stone doesn't come to Earth in that timeline as well. The primary problem that arises is whether Odin's death is directly attributable to being stranded on Earth by Loki or not. If it simply was his time, then some of those stones in those timelines will be exposed due to Hela's emergence. no, they have to be returned to the same place, otherwise the branched timelines still happen. if the Reality Stone isn't returned to Jane Foster and instead just dropped off on some random planet, it still becomes an alternate timeline. since Malekith can sense the Reality Stone, if Jane doesn't have it he has no reason to go to Asgard, which means the battle doesn't happen, so Friga isn't killed trying to protect Jane, and Loki isn't broken out of prison and "dies", etc. furthermore, since Thor now has no way of locating Malekith since he's not going after Jane, in the new timeline Malekith will most likely get the stone and destroy all of reality. Actually, simply traveling back in time is what starts the branching timeline in the first place. There weren’t two Hulks, Iron Men, Captain America’s, and Scott Lang’s in 2012 originally. Their very presence branched the timeline (they probably had to fight some Chitauri as well). That doesn’t even touch the following: - Loki’s escape and the fact that half of Hydra in 2012 thinks Cap is on their team, something Cap of that timeline is completely unaware of. Also, the Mind Stone is no longer in the staff, meaning no Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Ultron, or Vision. - Quill is in no shape to get the Power Stone, meaning he doesn’t meet the rest of the Guardians, Xandar dies at Ronin’s hand, etc. - There are Asgardians looking for a rabbit who was attacking guards and guests in the palace prior to a Dark Elf attack, clearly as a Dark Elf ally. Not to mention that you have to realize that Heimdall noticed Rocket and Fat Thor running around. He also had to notice Cap showing up as well. - The Space Stone isn’t in the Tesseract anymore. - Red Skull can’t miss Cap returning the Soul Stone.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Sept 4, 2019 1:50:01 GMT -5
no, they have to be returned to the same place, otherwise the branched timelines still happen. if the Reality Stone isn't returned to Jane Foster and instead just dropped off on some random planet, it still becomes an alternate timeline. since Malekith can sense the Reality Stone, if Jane doesn't have it he has no reason to go to Asgard, which means the battle doesn't happen, so Friga isn't killed trying to protect Jane, and Loki isn't broken out of prison and "dies", etc. furthermore, since Thor now has no way of locating Malekith since he's not going after Jane, in the new timeline Malekith will most likely get the stone and destroy all of reality. Actually, simply traveling back in time is what starts the branching timeline in the first place. There weren’t two Hulks, Iron Men, Captain America’s, and Scott Lang’s in 2012 originally. Their very presence branched the timeline (they probably had to fight some Chitauri as well). That doesn’t even touch the following: - Loki’s escape and the fact that half of Hydra in 2012 thinks Cap is on their team, something Cap of that timeline is completely unaware of. Also, the Mind Stone is no longer in the staff, meaning no Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Ultron, or Vision. - Quill is in no shape to get the Power Stone, meaning he doesn’t meet the rest of the Guardians, Xandar dies at Ronin’s hand, etc. - There are Asgardians looking for a rabbit who was attacking guards and guests in the palace prior to a Dark Elf attack, clearly as a Dark Elf ally. Not to mention that you have to realize that Heimdall noticed Rocket and Fat Thor running around. He also had to notice Cap showing up as well. - The Space Stone isn’t in the Tesseract anymore. - Red Skull can’t miss Cap returning the Soul Stone. yes, but simply returning the stones to any random place in the timeline is not what Banner or the Ancient One meant by "return it at the moment it was taken". they'd already f***ed up before even traveling back to the present, but their goal is to try to mitigate the damage. a handful of guards running around Asgard looking for a rabbit isn't going to change much, but a battle not taking place because the Reality Stone isn't there will. also, Xandar doesn't necessarily die at Ronin's hand. the only reason Ronin went after the Orb (which he didn't know was actually the Power Stone) was to get it for Thanos in exchange for his help destroying Xandar. so since Thanos & Co. are dead, Ronin has no need to go after it. and without the Power Stone, he's back where he was at the start of "Guardians", just a rogue Kree wanting to destroy Xandar but with no way to so
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Sept 4, 2019 2:35:40 GMT -5
also, Xandar doesn't necessarily die at Ronin's hand. the only reason Ronin went after the Orb (which he didn't know was actually the Power Stone) was to get it for Thanos in exchange for his help destroying Xandar. so since Thanos & Co. are dead, Ronin has no need to go after it. and without the Power Stone, he's back where he was at the start of "Guardians", just a rogue Kree wanting to destroy Xandar but with no way to so By the time Rhodey jumps back to the present and Nebula is kidnapped by Thanos, Korath would've already landed on Morag. Unless he happens upon Cap as he's returning the Power Stone and Cap kills him and his crew, he likely takes it while Quill is still unconscious and delivers it to Ronan, who probably wouldn't take long to figure out what it was that Thanos wanted him to get.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Sept 4, 2019 3:16:31 GMT -5
also, Xandar doesn't necessarily die at Ronin's hand. the only reason Ronin went after the Orb (which he didn't know was actually the Power Stone) was to get it for Thanos in exchange for his help destroying Xandar. so since Thanos & Co. are dead, Ronin has no need to go after it. and without the Power Stone, he's back where he was at the start of "Guardians", just a rogue Kree wanting to destroy Xandar but with no way to so By the time Rhodey jumps back to the present and Nebula is kidnapped by Thanos, Korath would've already landed on Morag. Unless he happens upon Cap as he's returning the Power Stone and Cap kills him and his crew, he likely takes it while Quill is still unconscious and delivers it to Ronan, who probably wouldn't take long to figure out what it was that Thanos wanted him to get. except Korath most likely doesn't go to Morag because there's no point in sending him. in the original timeline, Thanos sends Gamora and Nebula to Ronan, who sends Korath to retrieve the Orb on Morag; in the alternate timeline, Thanos goes to Morag himself in order to retrieve the Nebula from 2023, thus eliminating the need for Korath to go there
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Sept 4, 2019 7:20:24 GMT -5
By the time Rhodey jumps back to the present and Nebula is kidnapped by Thanos, Korath would've already landed on Morag. Unless he happens upon Cap as he's returning the Power Stone and Cap kills him and his crew, he likely takes it while Quill is still unconscious and delivers it to Ronan, who probably wouldn't take long to figure out what it was that Thanos wanted him to get. except Korath most likely doesn't go to Morag because there's no point in sending him. in the original timeline, Thanos sends Gamora and Nebula to Ronan, who sends Korath to retrieve the Orb on Morag; in the alternate timeline, Thanos goes to Morag himself in order to retrieve the Nebula from 2023, thus eliminating the need for Korath to go there Dude, Korath literally arrives at the orb less than a minute after Quill does, so he is already on Morag at the time Quill is dancing around like an idiot, let alone while he is taking a nap. Also, the Ancient One doesn’t care about keeping the timeline unchanged. If she did, there would be a bunch of interloping time bandits sent back to their time through the power of the Time Stone. Their mission would fail instantly. She did not concern herself with such things (remember that she is far from a pure white hat). She only concerned herself with preventing the destruction of her reality. As long as changes don’t prevent Stephen Strange from replacing her as Sorcerer Supreme, I doubt she cares. Sure, Bruce might be concerned about changing the future of those timelines, but that is partly due to him having a bad history of breaking everything thoughtlessly. Cap doesn’t have those issues. For him, his issue is that he can’t turn away if he sees something he can stop, no matter the personal costs (that was his entire theme in Civil War). There is absolutely no chance that he will go, “I know that I can leave this timeline a better place” and then opt not to do so.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Sept 4, 2019 7:29:21 GMT -5
As cool as seeing Cap deliver the Assemble line with the OG MCU Avengers standing behind him...it makes me kind of sad that OG Ant-Man and Wasp didn’t join the final battle. It would be a nice throw back to the founding comics team to have Stark, Banner, Odinson, Pym and Van Dyne being the group behind him for the battle cry.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Sept 4, 2019 10:15:15 GMT -5
As cool as seeing Cap deliver the Assemble line with the OG MCU Avengers standing behind him...it makes me kind of sad that OG Ant-Man and Wasp didn’t join the final battle. It would be a nice throw back to the founding comics team to have Stark, Banner, Odinson, Pym and Van Dyne being the group behind him for the battle cry. You’re disappointed that two AARP members weren’t out there slugging it out with the aliens? I mean, I get the point of your symbolism but that just wasn’t happening.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Sept 4, 2019 12:56:46 GMT -5
except Korath most likely doesn't go to Morag because there's no point in sending him. in the original timeline, Thanos sends Gamora and Nebula to Ronan, who sends Korath to retrieve the Orb on Morag; in the alternate timeline, Thanos goes to Morag himself in order to retrieve the Nebula from 2023, thus eliminating the need for Korath to go there Dude, Korath literally arrives at the orb less than a minute after Quill does, so he is already on Morag at the time Quill is dancing around like an idiot, let alone while he is taking a nap. Also, the Ancient One doesn’t care about keeping the timeline unchanged. If she did, there would be a bunch of interloping time bandits sent back to their time through the power of the Time Stone. Their mission would fail instantly. She did not concern herself with such things (remember that she is far from a pure white hat). She only concerned herself with preventing the destruction of her reality. As long as changes don’t prevent Stephen Strange from replacing her as Sorcerer Supreme, I doubt she cares. Sure, Bruce might be concerned about changing the future of those timelines, but that is partly due to him having a bad history of breaking everything thoughtlessly. Cap doesn’t have those issues. For him, his issue is that he can’t turn away if he sees something he can stop, no matter the personal costs (that was his entire theme in Civil War). There is absolutely no chance that he will go, “I know that I can leave this timeline a better place” and then opt not to do so. bro, Korath may have gotten there one minute after Quill did in the original timeline, but in the alternate timeline Thanos decides to go to Morag for the older Nebula well before Quill even arrives. so again, there's no reason to send Korath to retrieve one stone when he's already heading there himself to get Nebula and all six stones as for the Ancient One, she absolutely cares about mitigating changes in the timeline due to the stones being returned to the exact time and place they were taken. if after giving the Time Stone to Bruce in New York, she finds out it has been returned to the timeline on Mars, i'm pretty sure she'd be pissed. and Cap is set on trying to prevent (most of) the alternate realities: Bruce - "And remember, you have to return the stones to the exact moment you got them, or you're going to open a bunch of nasty alternative realities." Cap - "Don't worry, Bruce. I'll clip all the branches." other than the one timeline where he marries Peggy, he's going to try to prevent creating the alternate timelines as much as possible
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Sept 4, 2019 14:18:56 GMT -5
Dude, Korath literally arrives at the orb less than a minute after Quill does, so he is already on Morag at the time Quill is dancing around like an idiot, let alone while he is taking a nap. Also, the Ancient One doesn’t care about keeping the timeline unchanged. If she did, there would be a bunch of interloping time bandits sent back to their time through the power of the Time Stone. Their mission would fail instantly. She did not concern herself with such things (remember that she is far from a pure white hat). She only concerned herself with preventing the destruction of her reality. As long as changes don’t prevent Stephen Strange from replacing her as Sorcerer Supreme, I doubt she cares. Sure, Bruce might be concerned about changing the future of those timelines, but that is partly due to him having a bad history of breaking everything thoughtlessly. Cap doesn’t have those issues. For him, his issue is that he can’t turn away if he sees something he can stop, no matter the personal costs (that was his entire theme in Civil War). There is absolutely no chance that he will go, “I know that I can leave this timeline a better place” and then opt not to do so. bro, Korath may have gotten there one minute after Quill did in the original timeline, but in the alternate timeline Thanos decides to go to Morag for the older Nebula well before Quill even arrives. so again, there's no reason to send Korath to retrieve one stone when he's already heading there himself to get Nebula and all six stones as for the Ancient One, she absolutely cares about mitigating changes in the timeline due to the stones being returned to the exact time and place they were taken. if after giving the Time Stone to Bruce in New York, she finds out it has been returned to the timeline on Mars, i'm pretty sure she'd be pissed. and Cap is set on trying to prevent (most of) the alternate realities: Bruce - "And remember, you have to return the stones to the exact moment you got them, or you're going to open a bunch of nasty alternative realities." Cap - "Don't worry, Bruce. I'll clip all the branches." other than the one timeline where he marries Peggy, he's going to try to prevent creating the alternate timelines as much as possible A) Nebula did not log onto the network until after they grabbed the Power Stone, which because they did not waste time dancing around like Quill means that this happens just immediately before Quill would have grabbed the orb in the first place. Remember, even with gate jumping Korath had to land on the planet and trek to the orb site, which means he was already on the planet at the time she logged onto the network and alerted Thanos to her presence (you might recall she was in a hurry to leave to avoid them). Thanos had the time needed to jump to Morag to grab her because she froze up for a bit as she logged on and then had to run to her pod. In fact, she probably ran right past Korath and gang on her way to the pod but they would have no reason to stop her as they would not know she wasn't their ally. B) Of course the Ancient One expected the Time Stone to be returned to her; that was the logical thing to do with it in the first damned place. There literally was no safer thing to do with it. C) As I said, Bruce was concerned about the events of the different timelines diverging from the events of the main timeline. Cap obviously had no such concerns himself since he started up a new timeline just to join Peggy in the 1940's. Why wouldn't he prevent certain disasters in the other timelines if he was already so cavalier about said timelines? After all, in 4 of the other 5 timelines (Grow old with Peggy timeline, Shield base timeline, Battle of New York timeline, and trip to Asgard timeline) shown in the movie Thanos still would enact the Decimation if not stopped (one timeline no longer has a Thanos or his army, so that's permanently undone there). Do you think Cap could stomach NOT trying to stop them?
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Sept 4, 2019 15:19:40 GMT -5
1 hour, 14 minutes into the movie - Thanos orders Gamora and Nebula to go to Ronan because he located the Power Stone, but stops when the 2014 Nebula has the vision of 2023 Nebula talking to Rhodey 1 hour, 26 minutes into the movie - after scanning Nebula '14, Ebony Maw tells Thanos Nebula '23 is on Morag; Thanos orders his ship to head to Morag, and tells Maw to go through Nebula '23's complete memory (which is nine years worth and a minimum of three and a half movies, and since they finish right when Nebula '23 is supposed to jump forward to the present, a good deal of time has to take place between the two scenes) 1 hour, 32 minutes into the movie - Quill dances on Morag
Thanos heads to Morag well before Quill goes there, and thus there is no reason to send Korath to get the Orb
and Cap would not try to stop the disasters because he knows how they end up. if he stops the battle on Asgard from taking place by putting the Reality Stone somewhere else, Friga lives, but the entire universe is put in danger because Thor's not there now to stop Malekith. so which seems more likely for Captain America to do: let Friga die because he knows that series of events ends with Thor stopping Malekith, or save Friga and put all of existence in danger? Captain America is not an arrogant character. he knows what he knows, and he knows what he doesn't know, so when it comes to something like time travel, he's going to defer to someone who knows (i.e. Bruce Banner, who's going to tell him not to screw around and make alternate timelines)
remember, this is a movie about fictional characters written by Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely and directed by the Russo Brothers, who make it quite clear the stones have to go back to where they came from, which is both the time and the place they were taken from. other than Cap creating a new timeline where he marries Peggy (only after he's returned all the stones), because it gives a nice ending for his character, they're not going to have him deliberately create alternate timelines by trying to righting every wrong that's ever happened
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Sept 4, 2019 16:09:45 GMT -5
1 hour, 14 minutes into the movie - Thanos orders Gamora and Nebula to go to Ronan because he located the Power Stone, but stops when the 2014 Nebula has the vision of 2023 Nebula talking to Rhodey 1 hour, 26 minutes into the movie - after scanning Nebula '14, Ebony Maw tells Thanos Nebula '23 is on Morag; Thanos orders his ship to head to Morag, and tells Maw to go through Nebula '23's complete memory (which is nine years worth and a minimum of three and a half movies, and since they finish right when Nebula '23 is supposed to jump forward to the present, a good deal of time has to take place between the two scenes) 1 hour, 32 minutes into the movie - Quill dances on Morag Thanos heads to Morag well before Quill goes there, and thus there is no reason to send Korath to get the Orb and Cap would not try to stop the disasters because he knows how they end up. if he stops the battle on Asgard from taking place by putting the Reality Stone somewhere else, Friga lives, but the entire universe is put in danger because Thor's not there now to stop Malekith. so which seems more likely for Captain America to do: let Friga die because he knows that series of events ends with Thor stopping Malekith, or save Friga and put all of existence in danger? Captain America is not an arrogant character. he knows what he knows, and he knows what he doesn't know, so when it comes to something like time travel, he's going to defer to someone who knows (i.e. Bruce Banner, who's going to tell him not to screw around and make alternate timelines) remember, this is a movie about fictional characters written by Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely and directed by the Russo Brothers, who make it quite clear the stones have to go back to where they came from, which is both the time and the place they were taken from. other than Cap creating a new timeline where he marries Peggy (only after he's returned all the stones), because it gives a nice ending for his character, they're not going to have him deliberately create alternate timelines by trying to righting every wrong that's ever happened Okay, I don't have the Blu-Ray to go back and analyze like that. I was going by my memories from watching it, which tend to be pretty decent. Mandela Effect had me CONVINCED that she did not log in until after Rhodes left. As for Cap, how many people die without the Decimation? For that matter, every Decimation will have to be reversed by even more time travel creating even more alternate timelines. It's a gigantic clustersmurf that Cap could fix if he chose to by preventing the Decimations. Again, I don't have the Blu-Ray so I don't have access to any writer/director commentaries that say canonically that Cap let every disaster happen, so I am only going by logic and his established character of being unwilling to simply let things happen because it is easier that way.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Sept 4, 2019 17:19:57 GMT -5
As cool as seeing Cap deliver the Assemble line with the OG MCU Avengers standing behind him...it makes me kind of sad that OG Ant-Man and Wasp didn’t join the final battle. It would be a nice throw back to the founding comics team to have Stark, Banner, Odinson, Pym and Van Dyne being the group behind him for the battle cry. You’re disappointed that two AARP members weren’t out there slugging it out with the aliens? I mean, I get the point of your symbolism but that just wasn’t happening. Thor was there and he's over 1,000 years old, lol.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Sept 4, 2019 18:51:05 GMT -5
1 hour, 14 minutes into the movie - Thanos orders Gamora and Nebula to go to Ronan because he located the Power Stone, but stops when the 2014 Nebula has the vision of 2023 Nebula talking to Rhodey 1 hour, 26 minutes into the movie - after scanning Nebula '14, Ebony Maw tells Thanos Nebula '23 is on Morag; Thanos orders his ship to head to Morag, and tells Maw to go through Nebula '23's complete memory (which is nine years worth and a minimum of three and a half movies, and since they finish right when Nebula '23 is supposed to jump forward to the present, a good deal of time has to take place between the two scenes) 1 hour, 32 minutes into the movie - Quill dances on Morag Thanos heads to Morag well before Quill goes there, and thus there is no reason to send Korath to get the Orb and Cap would not try to stop the disasters because he knows how they end up. if he stops the battle on Asgard from taking place by putting the Reality Stone somewhere else, Friga lives, but the entire universe is put in danger because Thor's not there now to stop Malekith. so which seems more likely for Captain America to do: let Friga die because he knows that series of events ends with Thor stopping Malekith, or save Friga and put all of existence in danger? Captain America is not an arrogant character. he knows what he knows, and he knows what he doesn't know, so when it comes to something like time travel, he's going to defer to someone who knows (i.e. Bruce Banner, who's going to tell him not to screw around and make alternate timelines) remember, this is a movie about fictional characters written by Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely and directed by the Russo Brothers, who make it quite clear the stones have to go back to where they came from, which is both the time and the place they were taken from. other than Cap creating a new timeline where he marries Peggy (only after he's returned all the stones), because it gives a nice ending for his character, they're not going to have him deliberately create alternate timelines by trying to righting every wrong that's ever happened Okay, I don't have the Blu-Ray to go back and analyze like that. I was going by my memories from watching it, which tend to be pretty decent. Mandela Effect had me CONVINCED that she did not log in until after Rhodes left. As for Cap, how many people die without the Decimation? For that matter, every Decimation will have to be reversed by even more time travel creating even more alternate timelines. It's a gigantic clustersmurf that Cap could fix if he chose to by preventing the Decimations. Again, I don't have the Blu-Ray so I don't have access to any writer/director commentaries that say canonically that Cap let every disaster happen, so I am only going by logic and his established character of being unwilling to simply let things happen because it is easier that way. Depends who you listen to...the directors or writers. The writers say Cap was in this timeline all along and was the one who married Peggy. The directors say him going back to Peggy created an alternate timeline from which he later had to use the Pym Particles to jump back to the main timeline so he could give Sam the shield. The latter scenario would make more sense with Cap stopping all of the things he foresaw happening thanks to already living them. The Avengers probably whipped Thanos’ big purple ass under old man Rogers orders before he knew what hit him.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Sept 4, 2019 19:57:43 GMT -5
Okay, I don't have the Blu-Ray to go back and analyze like that. I was going by my memories from watching it, which tend to be pretty decent. Mandela Effect had me CONVINCED that she did not log in until after Rhodes left. As for Cap, how many people die without the Decimation? For that matter, every Decimation will have to be reversed by even more time travel creating even more alternate timelines. It's a gigantic clustersmurf that Cap could fix if he chose to by preventing the Decimations. Again, I don't have the Blu-Ray so I don't have access to any writer/director commentaries that say canonically that Cap let every disaster happen, so I am only going by logic and his established character of being unwilling to simply let things happen because it is easier that way. Depends who you listen to...the directors or writers. The writers say Cap was in this timeline all along and was the one who married Peggy. The directors say him going back to Peggy created an alternate timeline from which he later had to use the Pym Particles to jump back to the main timeline so he could give Sam the shield. The latter scenario would make more sense with Cap stopping all of the things he foresaw happening thanks to already living them. The Avengers probably whipped Thanos’ big purple ass under old man Rogers orders before he knew what hit him. I'm guessing the writers wrote it one way and the Russos decided it should be the other, and ultimately it's the Russos who won out. The rules laid out on-screen make Steve always being Peggy's husband impossible, as going back in time creates a new branch in the timeline, and the only "branches to be clipped" were the ones where one or more of the Infinity Stones were gone. The other branches continue on their new path - the 2014 where Thanos and his army mysteriously vanished, for example, and the 2012 where Loki escaped with the Tesseract being another. Even if Steve was always the one to marry Peggy, they never establish a means for him to go back within his own timeline.
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denna5
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Post by denna5 on Sept 4, 2019 20:31:57 GMT -5
Depends who you listen to...the directors or writers. The writers say Cap was in this timeline all along and was the one who married Peggy. The directors say him going back to Peggy created an alternate timeline from which he later had to use the Pym Particles to jump back to the main timeline so he could give Sam the shield. The latter scenario would make more sense with Cap stopping all of the things he foresaw happening thanks to already living them. The Avengers probably whipped Thanos’ big purple ass under old man Rogers orders before he knew what hit him. I'm guessing the writers wrote it one way and the Russos decided it should be the other, and ultimately it's the Russos who won out. The rules laid out on-screen make Steve always being Peggy's husband impossible, as going back in time creates a new branch in the timeline, and the only "branches to be clipped" were the ones where one or more of the Infinity Stones were gone. The other branches continue on their new path - the 2014 where Thanos and his army mysteriously vanished, for example, and the 2012 where Loki escaped with the Tesseract being another. Even if Steve was always the one to marry Peggy, they never establish a means for him to go back within his own timeline. The writers keep making this worse too, because not only does it not make sense by the rules of the time travel established in the movie, according to them, Steve didn't change anything else, just married Peggy and let Hydra stay in SHIELD and let his best friend be tortured for a bunch of years when he could have stopped it which just doesn't fit his character at all. They said he would do this cause he would need rest but it makes no sense but if it is an alternative timeline than he can things for the best and still get his happy ending.
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Post by King Boo on Sept 4, 2019 20:43:38 GMT -5
Steve can't be the one who married Peggy in our timeline based on the video at the Smithsonian exhibit in Winter Solider where Peggy mentions how one of the men Steve saved during WWII was the man who would become her future husband. It has to be the way the Russos say it happened for it to make sense.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Sept 4, 2019 20:52:02 GMT -5
I'm guessing the writers wrote it one way and the Russos decided it should be the other, and ultimately it's the Russos who won out. The rules laid out on-screen make Steve always being Peggy's husband impossible, as going back in time creates a new branch in the timeline, and the only "branches to be clipped" were the ones where one or more of the Infinity Stones were gone. The other branches continue on their new path - the 2014 where Thanos and his army mysteriously vanished, for example, and the 2012 where Loki escaped with the Tesseract being another. Even if Steve was always the one to marry Peggy, they never establish a means for him to go back within his own timeline. The writers keep making this worse too, because not only does it not make sense by the rules of the time travel established in the movie, according to them, Steve didn't change anything else, just married Peggy and let Hydra stay in SHIELD and let his best friend be tortured for a bunch of years when he could have stopped it which just doesn't fit his character at all. They said he would do this cause he would need rest but it makes no sense but if it is an alternative timeline than he can things for the best and still get his happy ending. Yeah, plus there's also be the slight inconvenience of him making out with his niece in Civil War. Not to mention somebody would have to know about him being around the whole time, be it Fury or Pierce, or SHIELD. Seven decades is a long time to stay in hiding - it's not like Captain America, star of stage and screen and then hero of World War II is a guy who will be able to hide out for long before somebody recognised him. In any case, the "normal" rules of time travel that would've allowed Steve to go back into his own timeline to marry Peggy would serve to make the rest of the movie not work. If they could go back into their own past then all they would've had to do is steal a single Infinity Stone and bring it to the (restored) present, making it impossible for Thanos to enact his plan. Steve can't be the one who married Peggy in our timeline based on the video at the Smithsonian exhibit in Winter Solider where Peggy mentions how one of the men Steve saved during WWII was the man who would become her future husband. It has to be the way the Russos say it happened for it to make sense. That I wouldn't necessarily take at face value. Peggy was the Director of SHIELD, after all. If she were hiding Steve, spinning a tale where she married someone Steve rescued is an easy thing to do.
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Post by King Boo on Sept 4, 2019 21:04:55 GMT -5
Steve can't be the one who married Peggy in our timeline based on the video at the Smithsonian exhibit in Winter Solider where Peggy mentions how one of the men Steve saved during WWII was the man who would become her future husband. It has to be the way the Russos say it happened for it to make sense. That I wouldn't necessarily take at face value. Peggy was the Director of SHIELD, after all. If she were hiding Steve, spinning a tale where she married someone Steve rescued is an easy thing to do. But then that opens up a whole other squicky can of worms with regards to Sharon. And that can of worms is squicky enough haha Also, if she was hiding Steve for all that time, how was he found in the ice, still young, in 2012?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 21:14:23 GMT -5
This is the issue with using time travel but so ambiguoisly that the effects were so soft that it does not really make any sense.
Barry from the Flash actually did it right when he created flash point.
He goes back prevents his mothers death and it creates a new timeline because of this choice.
Cap goes back in time....and how it happens it anyones guess and here lies the issue it is all just assumption there seemingly is no result of such a change....IF that is our Cap then there should be huge changes to the current timeline because it would mean he is never frozen thus never found in the ice and never becomes an avenger.
So yea going with he created an alternate timeline which creates a whole slew of problems...but going with old cap was our cap but he created a different timeline and lived out his life there thus not creating any changes to this timeline....except ya know he created an alternate timeline and then there is the whole wait they put the stones back right as they took them...so he should have ran into everyone that was taking the stones at the exact moment.
Time travel is so much fun kiddos....
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Sept 4, 2019 21:24:58 GMT -5
Also, if she was hiding Steve for all that time, how was he found in the ice, still young, in 2012? That's the easy part, he was in both places simultaneously. If 2023 Steve can fight 2012 Steve, he can schtup Peggy while 1945 Steve is taking a nap at the North Pole. Now, if traditional time travel rules applied, were he to cause the Capsicle to die, he would create a paradox and our heads would start to ache from trying to wrap our minds around it. Thankfully, the Russos used the multiverse approach to time travel, so Steve could technically murder himself while in the ice at no personal cost beyond morals.
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