Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 23, 2019 21:49:45 GMT -5
Agree on the first,disagree on the second I feel like at this point,WWE is coasting on the reason people didnt want Charlotte to begin with as an excuse to push her in these title matches. Part of the issue at the start of the whole Becky-Charlotte feud was that people simply didnt want Charlotte.That is not heel heat. THANK YOU. I get it, but I also don't know what the remedy is. Do you want the company to just fire her or something? She lost to Becky again and again and again for a long time now. What else is supposed to happen before the criticism of her stealing from Becky starts to crumble under scrutiny? The clock's got to reset at some point.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Apr 23, 2019 21:50:17 GMT -5
Becky and Charlotte are both super favored and are getting those super pushes for life. They're both established no matter what now. Both need to level up other girls to their status, so it makes sense for each to head up a division and sprinkle the dust around. But we had the opportunity right now to it didnt we? if Bayley wins against Charlotte and then becky(evne if tired0 isnst that bringing her up? Charlotte beating Bayley and Becky brings no one up.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 21:50:37 GMT -5
That’s exactly what they’re doing. Because she’s a heel. The thing most of us wanted. They turned her heel and used what most people already thought about her to her advantage and it worked. Idk, I’m just not seeing the issue. Because that is jsut flawed logic,its not that we want her heel and still pushed all the time. We dont want her pushed all the time. What exactly should Charlotte do then? Be in a random tag team with Bayley and have her be a babyface again? Have her get defeated by a bunch of people? Have her not on the show at all? As someone pointed out, Becky and Charlotte are the top girls for life. Becky will elevate he Raw heels and Charlotte will elevate the SD faces.
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Post by Starshine on Apr 23, 2019 21:51:41 GMT -5
So you give Ember a reason,like you gave Lacey. Or I dont know....Bayley?The one that was right there with a reason and as she said Becky never beat? Charlotte doesnt need the win agasint becky,any other woman could use the rub. But then you run the risk of having either Becky or either of the babyface challengers being booed, something they clearly don’t want right now. WWE's been coasting on the idea a babyface being booed is fine ever since the Cena era began 14 years ago. What would they care if one babyface got booed against another?
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Apr 23, 2019 21:51:44 GMT -5
I get it, but I also don't know what the remedy is. Do you want the company to just fire her or something? She lost to Becky again and again and again for a long time now. What else is supposed to happen before the criticism of her stealing from Becky starts to crumble under scrutiny. The clock's got to reset at some point. I told many times what I wanted,since the Rumble. For Charlotte to go in a ~Mad queen~ Gimmick where she goes crazy from after years on top,not being able to get the job done and redo her journey to the top. She needs to lets go of the title scene and the "Naturally Superior" character for a while.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 21:52:56 GMT -5
But then you run the risk of having either Becky or either of the babyface challengers being booed, something they clearly don’t want right now. WWE's been coasting on the idea a babyface being booed is fine ever since the Cena era began 14 years ago. What would they care if one babyface got booed against another? Because those are two totally different situations?
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Post by Starshine on Apr 23, 2019 21:53:37 GMT -5
WWE's been coasting on the idea a babyface being booed is fine ever since the Cena era began 14 years ago. What would they care if one babyface got booed against another? Because those are two totally different situations? In what way? You need to elaborate.
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dbrussel
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Post by dbrussel on Apr 23, 2019 21:53:57 GMT -5
The best of all time!!! The QUEEEENNNNNNNN! WOOOOOOOO
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Post by DSR on Apr 23, 2019 21:54:02 GMT -5
Remember when the joke was that Cena would fight a dude a bunch of different times and the one he won was the one that counted? That's what this feels like. Charlotte being the heel that faces chase might "make sense" but it totally f***ing sucks. Charlotte doesn't get "good heel heat" with me. I'm just sick of her. Right, so Lynch can beat Flair six ways from Sunday for the last seven months, but if Flair gets one cheap win on an exhausted Lynch who’d already wrestled a match beforehand, that’s rendered null and void? Heel or face, they've pushed Charlotte as the most historic history-maker in history for the past 4 years. They got behind Becky because the audience reacted the "wrong way" to her heel-turn. But the whole time they've been behind Becky they've still pushed Charlotte as breathing down her neck THE WHOLE TIME. I'm not saying Charlotte taking one of Becky's two belts makes Becky worthless in the eyes of management or myself. All I'm saying is that Charlotte could afford to take a backseat to somebody else's story once in a while.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Apr 23, 2019 21:54:23 GMT -5
WWE's been coasting on the idea a babyface being booed is fine ever since the Cena era began 14 years ago. What would they care if one babyface got booed against another? Because those are two totally different situations? WWE has done many times face vs face without either being booed,If the faces are good it shouldnt be a big issue.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 23, 2019 21:54:32 GMT -5
Because those are two totally different situations? In what way? You need to elaborate. It's with made faces they do that with. Roman Reigns or Cena are a lot more established than Ember is.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Apr 23, 2019 21:55:25 GMT -5
Right, so Lynch can beat Flair six ways from Sunday for the last seven months, but if Flair gets one cheap win on an exhausted Lynch who’d already wrestled a match beforehand, that’s rendered null and void? Heel or face, they've pushed Charlotte as the most historic history-maker in history for the past 4 years. They got behind Becky because the audience reacted the "wrong way" to her heel-turn. But the whole time they've been behind Becky they've still pushed Charlotte as breathing down her neck THE WHOLE TIME. I'm not saying Charlotte taking one of Becky's two belts makes Becky worthless in the eyes of management or myself. All I'm saying is that Charlotte could afford to take a backseat to somebody else's story once in a while. Right and you can say "But Charlotte lost all the time to Becky". That is part of the issue,she was ALWAYS in the title scene. When was the last time Charlotte was on TV and not part of a title program?
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Shark
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Post by Shark on Apr 23, 2019 21:55:54 GMT -5
To be honest I really don't even mind for a few reasons. - Charlotte really needs a win over Becky at this point to really be able to be bought as a threat going forward. She's been her personal jobber for most of the past year. - Becky needs to hurry up and lose the SmackDown Women's title, both since she's obviously exhausted trying to do both and SmackDown needs to separate itself from the dumpster fire that is Raw's division. - They're probably going to do a thing where Lacey beats her half to death before losing on a fluke then Charlotte easily picks up the scraps, since that's the easiest way to advance the direction of all three's characters at the moment. Charlotte does not NEED anything. She's an 8 time champion. A month ago she won the Smackdown title just to prove a point. If any woman in WWE is bullet proof, it's her. She has also hardly been Becky's personal jobber. Charlotte has lost to Becky in a match exactly twice. Three times counting the Rumble. Charlotte has been in the title picture nearly her entire main roster run. If she beats Becky for the title, then that's practically wasting Becky winning at Mania. It makes this entire process to get Becky over was all so Charlotte to get the last word over Becky.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 21:56:30 GMT -5
Because those are two totally different situations? In what way? You need to elaborate. Because Cena was already and established dude when the jeers came in. Where as ember and Bayley, two people they clearly like as babyface, aren’t. They aren’t just going to randomly put ember and Bayley in a title match with Becky, especially since you do the risk of either of ruining either of those girls fan support. That includes Becky. Just because the WWE fell on deaf ears with Cena or Roman, it doesn’t mean they’re going to do for the women.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Apr 23, 2019 21:56:31 GMT -5
Becky and Charlotte are both super favored and are getting those super pushes for life. They're both established no matter what now. Both need to level up other girls to their status, so it makes sense for each to head up a division and sprinkle the dust around. But we had the opportunity right now to it didnt we? if Bayley wins against Charlotte and then becky(evne if tired0 isnst that bringing her up? Charlotte beating Bayley and Becky brings no one up. It sets up multiple faces on SDL to chase. If Bayley is the champ out the gate than that only leaves Charlotte, the only big heel, to take it off her anyways. At least now we get a conquering babyface story that brings up Bayley, Ember, Asuka, or Sane.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Apr 23, 2019 21:57:57 GMT -5
But we had the opportunity right now to it didnt we? if Bayley wins against Charlotte and then becky(evne if tired0 isnst that bringing her up? Charlotte beating Bayley and Becky brings no one up. It sets up multiple faces on SDL to chase. If Bayley is the champ out the gate than that only leaves Charlotte, the only big heel, to take it off her anyways. At least now we get a conquering babyface story that brings up Bayley, Ember, Asuka, or Sane. But Charlotte is already made , she doesnt need the title to put someone over. Beating Becky for the title is the rub someone else needed. You had the chance NOW,you still do,you dont need to place Charlotte in the middle for it. Not all stories need to be "chase the big bad heel champ".
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Post by Starshine on Apr 23, 2019 21:57:58 GMT -5
In what way? You need to elaborate. It's with made faces they do that with. Roman Reigns or Cena are a lot more established than Ember is. Then how would you account their booking of Bayley, for example? Anytime two babyfaces bet in the ring, one will be more likely to be booed over the other. It doesn't damage them or make them a failed babyface. I don't get this argument.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 21:57:59 GMT -5
To be honest I really don't even mind for a few reasons. - Charlotte really needs a win over Becky at this point to really be able to be bought as a threat going forward. She's been her personal jobber for most of the past year. - Becky needs to hurry up and lose the SmackDown Women's title, both since she's obviously exhausted trying to do both and SmackDown needs to separate itself from the dumpster fire that is Raw's division. - They're probably going to do a thing where Lacey beats her half to death before losing on a fluke then Charlotte easily picks up the scraps, since that's the easiest way to advance the direction of all three's characters at the moment. Charlotte does not NEED anything. She's an 8 time champion. A month ago she won the Smackdown title just to prove a point. If any woman in WWE is bullet proof, it's her. She has also hardly been Becky's personal jobber. Charlotte has lost to Becky in a match exactly twice. Three times counting the Rumble. Charlotte has been in the title picture nearly her entire main roster run. If she beats Becky for the title, then that's practically wasting Becky winning at Mania. It makes this entire process to get Becky over was all so Charlotte to get the last word over Becky. Charlotte has been made to look like Becky’s bitch for the majority of their feud. The weeks leading up to HIAC, HIAC itself, SSD, Evolution, The Rumble, Fastlane, Mania, etc. One win against a fatigued Becky won’t hurt her or Mania whatsoever.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 21:58:29 GMT -5
Bayley losing to Charlotte here's also good because it can get more crowd support behind Bayley and it'll also help Bayley's development. I'm seeing people say "well Bayley should have won here" but that's not long term story planning. Kofi for example, yeah he won at WM but the thing is that we saw Kofi show off week by week by week until he won. He didn't automatically get the belt. Straight up, Becky needs to lose that belt at MITB and it'll probably happen against Charlotte. Someone's taking a title from her, we know that.
But imagine if Bayley ended up facing Becky and then winning like that. Uh, what? That's not increasing her longevity by giving her a deep underdog struggle story, that's not utilizing Charlotte aka one of the women in the WM main event to her fullest, that's not doing a lot of stuff. That's just immediately putting a title on someone based off 2 weeks rather than making the experience better.
There's such a thing as building to the big moment and it'll happen. We can't just say "hey let's do this right now because I like someone" because even the quickest times, Kofi, had a build before his big moment.
People are putting their hatred of Charlotte ahead of the entire story which benefits not only Bayley but Charlotte, Becky and well everyone involved. We also gotta throw some faces against Charlotte too, like there's levels to this thing.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Apr 23, 2019 21:59:29 GMT -5
Charlotte does not NEED anything. She's an 8 time champion. A month ago she won the Smackdown title just to prove a point. If any woman in WWE is bullet proof, it's her. She has also hardly been Becky's personal jobber. Charlotte has lost to Becky in a match exactly twice. Three times counting the Rumble. Charlotte has been in the title picture nearly her entire main roster run. If she beats Becky for the title, then that's practically wasting Becky winning at Mania. It makes this entire process to get Becky over was all so Charlotte to get the last word over Becky. Charlotte has been made to look like Becky’s bitch for the majority of their feud. The weeks leading up to HIAC, HIAC itself, SSD, Evolution, The Rumble, Fastlane, Mania, etc. One win against a fatigued Becky won’t hurt her or Mania whatsoever. Not speaking for then,but my issue isnt hurting Becky. its wasting the bragging rights of beating Becky for the title. And simply being tired of watching her in the title scene.
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