Has Vince become an old version of Verne Gagne?

[corndog]

After listening to Moxley on Talk is Jericho, it is now completely confirmed that Vince is an out of touch old man, that he just books what he thinks is good despite how terrible it turns out.

The reason I bring up Verne Gagne is many believe that competition might actually wake Vince up, I actually don't think it will this time. Vince is very set in his ways and it seems his iron grip on not only professional wrestling, but his company itself has continued to tighten since WCW closed their doors in 2001. His micromanagement has gotten to an all time high to even where it seems well beyond what it was just a few years ago, as in Punk's AOW interview it sounded like he could pretty much say what he wanted in promos once he earned Vince's trust.

As we all know, Vince came after the AWA hard in the early 80s after Gagne turned down a supposed $10 million buyout according to Gene Okerlund. While Vince took key talents like Mean Gene, Hulk Hogan, Jesse Ventura, Bobby Heenan and eventually more, Verne simply could not keep up with the times and still operated in a dated fashion that eventually led to the shutdown of the AWA. Much like current WWE with HHH, many that worked for the company felt Verne needed to step down and allow Greg to run the company as he knew the company needed to catch up to the times in order to compete. We will never know if that would have worked, but we know Verne wasn't working.

What does everyone else think? Is Vince finished ever producing a good wrestling product again and the only hope for WWE producing a good product again is HHH? Or does Vince actually wake up, unlike Gagne, in the same way he did in the late 90s?

[sportatorium]

If Vince sees things really slipping, he can flip the switch and use the talent he has signed and make a great show again. Gagne was left without that option, and from a national promotion perspective, Verne was starting from third place by the time the big TV deals hit

[Kevin Hamilton]

Yeah; just in the sense that once you hit a certain age, you're pretty well set in your ways. He's there. That's not even a value judgment either, ya get old you become really averse to change.

[Deleted]

Oh boy, considering what Verne did toward the end of his life I hope for some poor soul's sake Vince isn't another Verne.

[Kevin Hamilton]

Vince ain't flipping any switches. If he could, he would have already.

If it was the case that he was waiting for these to really slip, his stockholders should try and vote him out.

[cabbageboy]

I think one big problem is that for the past few years WWE's shows have been so relentlessly negative, almost done to drain the joy out of anyone watching. In that respect Vince does seem like this mean old man that has become vindictive and kind of a prick, which has translated into the onscreen product.

[Mecca]

For many many years the WWE was a babyface territory, big business and really the way the booking was done is they were a full on babyface territory. Triple H's run occurred and kind of changed that a bit and now they are a company obsessed with heat and having heels be champion forever, that fundamental change in the company honestly hasn't been good.

[Tiger Millionaire]

I think Vince is and always has been a much better businessman when it comes to o wrestling than a creative genius.

[Deleted]

Vince COULD make it a great programme. He just chooses to stick to the same formula because it requires minimum effort.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

May 30, 2019 13:37:24 GMT -5 sportatorium said:

If Vince sees things really slipping, he can flip the switch and use the talent he has signed and make a great show again. Gagne was left without that option, and from a national promotion perspective, Verne was starting from third place by the time the big TV deals hit

He can... Now, but with all the reports of people leaving, in a few years the landscape might be different.

If you look at all the talent the AWA had in the mid 80s, the Road Warriors, Rick Martel, Curt Hennig, The Rockers etc. they had all the talent they needed to flip the switch... Till they didn't.

[TWERKIN' MAGGLE]

I keep reading Verne Gagne as Vern Gangrel.

[ChitownKnight]

May 30, 2019 13:56:27 GMT -5 @knapp said:

Oh boy, considering what Verne did toward the end of his life I hope for some poor soul's sake Vince isn't another Verne.

What happened?

[Deleted]

May 30, 2019 15:04:08 GMT -5 ChitownKnight said:

May 30, 2019 13:56:27 GMT -5 @knapp said:

Oh boy, considering what Verne did toward the end of his life I hope for some poor soul's sake Vince isn't another Verne.

What happened?

On January 26, 2009, Gagne got into an altercation with Helmut Gutmann, a 97-year-old resident of the Bloomington, Minnesota facility where they both resided. According to Gutmann's widow, who was not present during the altercation, Gagne picked Gutmann up and hurled him to the floor, then broke his hip by pulling back on his body. "'The attack – which was not a wrestling body slam – happened quickly while the men were at a table,' Bloomington Police Chief Jeff Potts said. 'It was more like "a push and a shove" and it caused Gutmann to fall.'"[11]

Neither man had any recollection of the incident.[12] Gutmann was admitted to the hospital, and died on February 14 from complications of the injury.[13] On February 25, 2009, the older man's death was officially ruled a homicide by the Hennepin County medical examiner's office.[12] On March 12, 2009, the Hennepin County Prosecutor's office officially announced that Gagne would not be criminally charged as a result of the death as, because of Gagne's dementia, he lacked the mental capacity necessary to have intended to harm Gutmann.

[thegatewaydrug]

Nah, Verne pushed his scrawny [relative to other pro wrestlers] son to beat much bigger and better opponents a lot over the years eventhough Greg was never actually the best in the world.

Vince, on the other hand.... wait just a minute!!

[Chiral]

"Another Verne you say?"

[fw91]

How can Vince become an older version of the only person who has outlived Mickie James?

[wildojinx]

Does that mean that imminent domain will be what really kills the WWE? (No politics please)

[corndog]

May 30, 2019 13:58:52 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

Vince ain't flipping any switches. If he could, he would have already.

If it was the case that he was waiting for these to really slip, his stockholders should try and vote him out.

They can't vote him out, he is majority shareholder.

[corndog]

May 30, 2019 14:59:49 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

May 30, 2019 13:37:24 GMT -5 sportatorium said:

If Vince sees things really slipping, he can flip the switch and use the talent he has signed and make a great show again. Gagne was left without that option, and from a national promotion perspective, Verne was starting from third place by the time the big TV deals hit

He can... Now, but with all the reports of people leaving, in a few years the landscape might be different.

If you look at all the talent the AWA had in the mid 80s, the Road Warriors, Rick Martel, Curt Hennig, The Rockers etc. they had all the talent they needed to flip the switch... Till they didn't.

Talent wasn't why Verne failed. He let Hogan leave because he wanted the merch money and wasn't willing to let him keep working New Japan, basically his stubbornness is why Hogan left. Like you said, Verne had plenty of talent, he just wasn't willing to get with the times. While Bockwinkel was a very talented wrestler, the fact that he was champion in 1987 at 50 years old is very telling.

[Kevin Hamilton]

May 31, 2019 7:57:33 GMT -5 corndog said:

May 30, 2019 13:58:52 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

Vince ain't flipping any switches. If he could, he would have already.

If it was the case that he was waiting for these to really slip, his stockholders should try and vote him out.

They can't vote him out, he is majority shareholder.

Yeah I know, realized after I said it. Plus he'd probably pumpkin bomb em like Osborn.