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Post by eJm on Jul 16, 2019 18:07:09 GMT -5
Everyone saying Brock is either too young to remember the H reign or suffering from nostalgia. Dude squashed potential big face runs and star making wins for some of my all-time favorites. One of the points seen was that Booker T at least did other things like the IC title picture. Except the IC title wasn’t around until 2 months later. The reason for that? The belt was unified with HHH’s World title in October 2002, killing an entire midcard for months on end as a result. Like, come back to me when Brock kills AJ and wins the US title so the midcard can have less going on.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 18:08:41 GMT -5
Everyone saying Brock Triple H is either too young to remember the H reign or suffering from nostalgia. Dude squashed potential big face runs and star making wins for some of my all-time favorites. Corrected. Damn, sounds like the other side of the coin huh lol. We can literally do that to the other side of the debate. I'm waiting for people to give receipts because from what I've seen no one has been defending Brock's reign well compared to Triple H's yet. I'm really not seeing anything other than people being emotional about how the Triple H reign made them feel. Yeah that's cool and all but that doesn't compare to facts. "Men lie, women lie, numbers don't." - Hov
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mrbananagrabber
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Jul 16, 2019 18:13:27 GMT -5
Got to be Lesnar. HHH didn’t show up once every three months, spam two moves and leave, while the company acknowledged everyone hates it. I cannot wait until Lesnar is gone for good.
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Ben Wyatt
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 16, 2019 18:14:28 GMT -5
Everyone saying Brock is either too young to remember the H reign or suffering from nostalgia. Dude squashed potential big face runs and star making wins for some of my all-time favorites. And outside of maybe Seth, who did Brock put over in the last 5 years?
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Post by eJm on Jul 16, 2019 18:18:15 GMT -5
Did Brock Lesnar ever get involved in anything like Katie Vick?
Also, did Brock Lesnar ever have anything that bad, see the LOW ratings the show got and response from people then come out next week with a dummy “interviewing” Katie Vick and basically say “Yeah, F*** you all, I don’t give a shit” at a time when ratings were dropping for RAW compared to Smackdown?
Because that was embarrassing television.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 18:22:26 GMT -5
HHH pretty easily.
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Post by One-Armed Drummer of Defrebel on Jul 16, 2019 18:29:29 GMT -5
Brock because he’s not showing up. /thread Triple H back in the day being on TV as little as Brock would have been a substantial improvement tbh
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Post by freeze Austin on Jul 16, 2019 18:31:57 GMT -5
Everyone saying Brock Triple H is either too young to remember the H reign or suffering from nostalgia. Dude squashed potential big face runs and star making wins for some of my all-time favorites. Corrected. Damn, sounds like the other side of the coin huh lol. We can literally do that to the other side of the debate. I'm waiting for people to give receipts because from what I've seen no one has been defending Brock's reign well compared to Triple H's yet. I'm really not seeing anything other than people being emotional about how the Triple H reign made them feel. Yeah that's cool and all but that doesn't compare to facts. "Men lie, women lie, numbers don't." - Hov Except wrestling's not a factual business, it's a work. It's about generating emotion, it's about how it makes you feel. WWE left potential on the table with Booker T, RVD, and Jericho top face runs. Maybe some others. You can call that feelings or facts or whatever, that's just how I see it. They screwed up Goldberg. Chris Jericho quit wrestling for a couple of years. Booker T and Christian got to the point that they thought f***in' TNA was a better option. Shelton Benjamin momentum squandered and branded a mid-carder for life, same as Kofi before this year when a top heel that doesn't need his ego stroked 24/7 put him over. That doesn't mean this Brock run is good, but it hasn't squandered nearly the same amount of potential. If I were a Reigns mark I might feel different, but even then he's still presented as the top star and uncrowned champion, all over ESPN and the mainstream media, etc., none of those guys I mentioned were ever treated like that during the Triple H reign.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 18:38:27 GMT -5
Someone mentioned it already but look...it got so bad during that reign of terror THAT THE ONLY SINGLES TITLE ON RAW AT ONE POINT WAS THE WORLD TITLE...AND GUESS WHO WAS FRONT AND CENTRE WITH IT.
Say what you will about Brock not being around but he has not done anywhere near the ammount of damage HHH did during that time.
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Post by freeze Austin on Jul 16, 2019 18:43:15 GMT -5
Everyone saying Brock is either too young to remember the H reign or suffering from nostalgia. Dude squashed potential big face runs and star making wins for some of my all-time favorites. And outside of maybe Seth, who did Brock put over in the last 5 years? I'm not defending the Brock run. Far from it. Maybe it's just because I'm jaded and not as invested in the WWE product now as I was then. I don't expect the company to push the guys I like as big time stars. I expect Billy Jack WWE Fan who thinks Kevin Nash is the epitome of great wrestling to call my favorites vanilla midgets and all sorts of stupid shit. If I were a newer fan and not conditioned to the way they do things then maybe I'd be more upset about the Brock run. Maybe it's because the guys he has truly buried weren't my favorites to begin with, and I NEVER expected them to have the cajones to put AJ, Bryan, or Balor over him, so it hasn't affected me in the way the Triple H run has.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 18:50:00 GMT -5
I was disgusted when Brock cashed in on Seth, but I just can't bring myself to vote for his reign(s) over HHH's. Between the Katie Vick angle, beating Booker T at WM, and the stuff with Scott Steiner and Kevin Nash (plus the shitty promos), it's not close for me. As a matter of fact, it was HHH beating Orton at Unforgiven in 2004 that made me decide to stop watching regularly for a long time.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 18:54:19 GMT -5
Corrected. Damn, sounds like the other side of the coin huh lol. We can literally do that to the other side of the debate. I'm waiting for people to give receipts because from what I've seen no one has been defending Brock's reign well compared to Triple H's yet. I'm really not seeing anything other than people being emotional about how the Triple H reign made them feel. Yeah that's cool and all but that doesn't compare to facts. "Men lie, women lie, numbers don't." - Hov Except wrestling's not a factual business, it's a work. It's about generating emotion, it's about how it makes you feel.WWE left potential on the table with Booker T, RVD, and Jericho top face runs. Maybe some others. You can call that feelings or facts or whatever, that's just how I see it. They screwed up Goldberg. Chris Jericho quit wrestling for a couple of years. Booker T and Christian got to the point that they thought f***in' TNA was a better option. Shelton Benjamin momentum squandered and branded a mid-carder for life, same as Kofi before this year when a top heel that doesn't need his ego stroked 24/7 put him over. That doesn't mean this Brock run is good, but it hasn't squandered nearly the same amount of potential. If I were a Reigns mark I might feel different, but even then he's still presented as the top star and uncrowned champion, all over ESPN and the mainstream media, etc., none of those guys I mentioned were ever treated like that during the Triple H reign. I can't take the emotions stuff seriously so you gotta come back with something else. It doesn't matter how emotional people feel about what happens in wrestling, their emotions don't override actual wins, losses and story structure. I can't say "damn this made me upset" and expect people to take me seriously when they see someone get pinned. If that's what yall wanna do when debating about this then we're speaking on different things because I don't put my emotions in this. I'm not taking anyone's opinion serious regarding these things when they throw their emotions into the game because that's not something no one can quantify.
But when we're speaking on talent? Let's talk about the people Triple H faced
Booker T - Lost to Triple H, few months later he becomes IC Champion, gets injured which screws his run up RVD - Lost to Triple H but went on to beat Flair, afterwards he got another title shot and lost to HBK, shortly later he went on went to team with Kane and they become champions Kane - Lost the title match to Triple H but ended up winning the entire feud when he beat Triple H in a non-title casket match a week later. Shortly after he teamed with RVD and they become champions
Jericho - Never had a single's feud with Triple H for the title when Triple H's Reign of Terror was going on, actually screwed Triple H when he was GM once which caused issues for him
Goldberg - Beat Triple H for the title, kept it for a while but then lost it due to Evolution and more importantly Kane interfering, shortly after he mingled with Lesnar and left
See, this is what I've been saying here. There's a difference between this and what happened with Lesnar. These things don't happen with Brock.
You know what happened to Strowman with the Lesnar matches. He hasn't been the same.
You know what happened to Joe after the Lesnar matches. He became a bitch directly after that.
You know what happened to Ambrose after the Lesnar match, the announcers tried to hype Ambrose up and Jericho specifically said he had to work hard to make up for it due to how bad he was screwed. You know what Lesnar did to Reigns. We don't need to say anything else about that lol.
You know what Lesnar's done to Rollins. Like, nah he's on the road right now.
It's not really comparable.
Yeah people didn't like the Reign of Terror during then but to say it impacted the main event scene as much as Lesnar? Nah, we gotta run that back because Triple H didn't make as many great guys look like weak fools compared to Lesnar. Lesnar didn't make any stars like Triple H did. If we're talking about squandering potential then look at what Lesnar's done to everyone he's faced compared to how these guys lost in the Triple H matches because I guarantee you anything that they looked waaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than anyone looked against Lesnar. I remember friends in school being hyped that RVD was actually great enough to wrestle for the world title because prior they didn't know who he was in WWE, same for these others being thrown in there. I can't say the same about Lesnar.
I really think people are letting their emotions override what actually happened during that time. Sorry but nah, I don't put my own emotions in this. If that's what you do? Then hey man do you lol.
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Post by Starshine on Jul 16, 2019 18:57:55 GMT -5
The funny thing about this question is that Triple H being consistently around during his reign makes him worse in how every show was built around him. Sure, he defended the belt more, but the matches were by and large garbage at the time. Losing to Lesnar in quick and dominant fashion may not be the best outcome for anyone. But losing to Trips back then seemed like it could set your career back years (i.e Kane, RVD, Booker T, Hurricane, Orton, Jericho, etc.). Also didn’t help that you’d have Trips routinely dunk on his opponents (often to a counterproductive shoot level) on the mic, while they’d put him over as an all time great and then lose to him anyway. There’s no better way to neuter your baby faces than having them kiss up to the heel who shuts all over them and then lose like a chump.
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Post by freeze Austin on Jul 16, 2019 19:06:06 GMT -5
You know what, you are convincing me, but for the exact opposite reason of how you're trying to.
When Triple H was going over guys I liked, I have to say that I was at least pissed off and invested. When Brock goes over today's faces I feel nothing because he's a lousy heel and most every face he's gone against is force-fed, corporate stamp of approval face that I have a difficult time investing in.
Professional wrestling without emotion isn't professional wrestling. And it's the reason why the product is in the toilet right now. Brock's reign is worse because no one cares.
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mo
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Post by mo on Jul 16, 2019 19:12:17 GMT -5
Give me Brock not being on TV for months at a time over the entire show revolving around Triple H and his buddies any day. That 03 reign was the first time my wrestling fandom began to wane. Still can’t stand HHH to this day.
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Post by Bear Skin Rug on Jul 16, 2019 19:15:04 GMT -5
Brock has the recency bias and he's still barely winning. That HHH run set the table for a lot that's wrong with the modern WWE.
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Post by Cela on Jul 16, 2019 19:20:38 GMT -5
Anyone saying Lesnar doesn't remember HHH's reign.
Every Raw starting with the same 20 minute promo. The entire show being based around HHH. All the matches being clusterf***s of interference. The same dull plodding match the entire time.
At least with Lesnar, Heyman can be entertaining, and otherwise Brock isn't around to be annoying.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 19:22:51 GMT -5
You know what, you are convincing me, but for the exact opposite reason of how you're trying to. When Triple H was going over guys I liked, I have to say that I was at least pissed off and invested. When Brock goes over today's faces I feel nothing because he's a lousy heel and most every face he's gone against is force-fed, corporate stamp of approval face that I have a difficult time investing in. Professional wrestling without emotion isn't professional wrestling. And it's the reason why the product is in the toilet right now. Brock's reign is worse because no one cares. I'm not trying to convince anyone, if they agree they agree if they don't they do. It's all good at the end of the day because it's just a thread based on opinions. Back then I hated Triple H always having the title. I actually hated him more than I do Lesnar these days. I'll never forgive that Booker T stuff as a black man born in the Southern US, the same city where the Confederacy was born. I still think he had horrible segments, he just brought forth a lot of negativity, I tuned out a lot of the time too. With that said I think Lesnar as a whole is just a different beast because we're talking about guys who just can't elevate past a certain point in a company that continues to fall and then you look at everything as a whole. At least everyone Triple H faced ended up being champion later on because they were stable. I can't say that about any of the guys Lesnar faced. The product will continue to get worse. But either way a different of opinion is just that, a difference of opinion. Both reigns weren't good. I just think Lesnar's was worse.
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MrElijah
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Post by MrElijah on Jul 16, 2019 19:26:37 GMT -5
From watching both....Hulk Hogan's in WCW.
Semi-Serious answer aside, both have legit claims: HHH with his I'm "Harley Race/Ric Flair/Ole Anderson" delusions of grandeur with Evolution and overall bullshit aka Katie Vick and THAT Booker Feud. Brock has the Godking booking since 2014, which has stifled the ME Scene and f***ed over numerous pushes. See the thing is that they been reaping the benefits of a WWE with no competitors and Brock is the reason why WWE puts the Brand First and it's just Hunter was already grandfathered in so he's going over.
All in all, I blame the booking system of this just a little more than both guys. As to the answer to the question:
1)Hulk Hogan(I mean look at that shit.) 2a)Brock 2b)HHH and that's because he made a star in Batista
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adamclark52
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Post by adamclark52 on Jul 16, 2019 19:34:05 GMT -5
Triple Hs by a million miles
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