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Post by Viking Hall on Jun 24, 2020 7:18:56 GMT -5
Well, f***...
I really don't know how to feel about this. Weird time all round.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jun 24, 2020 7:28:19 GMT -5
I can speak as someone who was present on that hidden forum.
I cannot, however, speak as someone with memory of this specific incident happening, given how long ago it was and given that I did not participate.
The bit of context I can add is that the hidden section was very casual, given that everyone there was on friendly terms both here and outside the forum, giving it kind of the air of a break room at work. This meant that people there felt comfortable interacting without thought to anyone's position as an admin, mod, etc. Given that the people there were on such terms with one another, it meant the conversation, joking, and whatnot could be very casual, with the perception that the fooling around was meant in that joking manner. Given that, I believe this all happened (again, I don't have personal recollection of it), and I also believe that Madison made the offer in that same casual, joking manner, the feeling of "being amongst friends" allowing that level of familiarity among those present. I believe that the people impacted were not pressured, acted on their own volition as adults, and willfully took part in something I've personally never been comfortable with but they clearly were.
However, I think this leads to a very important thing everyone who's ever been placed into any sort of position of authority should always keep in mind: even in the most seemingly casual situation, even "just among friends", even if we're talking about a mid-sized web forum for niche interests where nobody's getting paid anything for doing work here, It doesn't change the inescapable reality that if you have some level of authority or power, it doesn't go away with the flip of a switch, and it impacts all your relationships with people around you.
This is why I'm glad Mads is owning that what he did was wrong; again, given my experiences in that setting I fully believe everything that was done was consensual and among adults and done with no malicious intent, but it doesn't alter that it was still something that could only be done by someone with Administrator authority at that time, and thus still qualifies as taking advantage of a position of power to gain something.
I don't view it as someone letting power go to their head, but rather something much more nuanced and thus something that could much more easily impact any of us, and thus something we should all learn from: when we hold power and authority, even a small amount, it's very, very easy to neglect or willfully forget what position you're in when you're just trying to be sociable. Having to be "the boss" isn't always fun, to put it mildly; I'm a teacher, and while I teach higher grade levels and thus can afford to be a bit more loose with my language I still have to constantly be aware of what I'm saying, how I'm saying it, and how my students might perceive my words or emotions; failure to do so could lead to me saying something that comes off ignorant, or worse, something that could harm my students or their senses of self worth. It can be downright exhausting, and maybe it even feels unfair sometimes, particularly if I'm in a setting outside of school where I feel I should be allowed to cut loose in my words or actions, but unless I can be sure I'm fully away from my students or their families I have to remember my responsibility to them and to maintaining a healthy environment for them, where I might be in the position of authority but they have no reason to think I would do anything to hurt or unfairly upset them.
I'd love to be able to leave it at that, but some here have said that they feel this knowledge combines with experiences they've had or have heard about that paints things in a new light for them. I cannot speak on people's individual experiences; I know I'm not aware of what everyone's seen or gone through that would make this a reality for them, so I'm in no position, nor ever want to be in a position, to tell someone their feelings regarding something like this are invalid.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Jun 24, 2020 7:39:02 GMT -5
Yeah I don’t love that this happened, but I don’t think Madison needs to be banished. If that’s what he feels has to do, then okay.
Thanks for helping create this place and letting me write for FAN for all those years. Best of luck.
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Jun 24, 2020 7:41:43 GMT -5
Is there going to be any sort of open conversation on how the place will continue to run? It's still a good forum, but this, the manner with which Madison has decided to split, along with the issues people have clearly had isn't exactly ideal
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Post by Alyce: Old Media Enthusiast on Jun 24, 2020 8:38:49 GMT -5
Yeah, that's a yikes, but I'll at least give you credit for admitting it.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 24, 2020 9:04:04 GMT -5
Is there going to be any sort of open conversation on how the place will continue to run? It's still a good forum, but this, the manner with which Madison has decided to split, along with the issues people have clearly had isn't exactly ideal I assume they're gonna update us within the next few days, Madison said who he picks to be the new head has to go through a forum security policy which takes a few days. Also this thread needs to be in every board, not everyone checks Wrest... this is a huge forum changing move.
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Post by Alyce: Old Media Enthusiast on Jun 24, 2020 9:07:05 GMT -5
Is there going to be any sort of open conversation on how the place will continue to run? It's still a good forum, but this, the manner with which Madison has decided to split, along with the issues people have clearly had isn't exactly ideal I assume they're gonna update us within the next few days, Madison said who he picks to be the new head has to go through a forum security policy which takes a few days. Also this thread needs to be in every board, not everyone checks Wrest... this is a huge forum changing move. I get why it's here though since this is where the majority of the accusation threads are, but I agree. It definitely should have a wider spot to be seen.
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Post by jason1980s on Jun 24, 2020 9:25:44 GMT -5
What a crazy way to go. I'm personally glad but moreso because the power went to his head in the multiple thread closures and prevention of future threads that he may have deemed may get explosive. This site should never have just one MOD (sorry, I never noticed any other MODs) that has full control of threads. But again, my belief in the power going to his head with thread closures definitely goes hand in hand the original subject of this thread and is not off topic. There is more I could or should say but would rather just say I hope whatever he chooses to go with his life he really evaluates things and digs deep inside himself to figure things out otherwise he will never learn.
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Post by dirtyoldman on Jun 24, 2020 10:17:23 GMT -5
I always thought those posters in green where mods. I've seen a few of those and if you look a couple of posts up you'll see another. Sad that Madison felt he had to go. He wasn't that bad really. Ok, he might have got a bit dramatic closing threads when something slightly political got mentioned, ie one of the first Saudi Arabia show threads was closed with him saying something like "we're closing this down until we can figure out how we're going to sort this." I thought wtf, everyone was being civil and it's not that big a deal.
Anyway, all the best big fella. You got a good forum here. One of the last two I still visit.
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Malibu Albino
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Post by Malibu Albino on Jun 24, 2020 10:32:22 GMT -5
Yeah, if you think Madison was the only mod you are clearly not paying attention. There are a fair number of them and they have all played a part in making the forum what it is. Can’t say I agree that it is “censorship” to put a stop to threads that always cause in-fighting but then again I’ve really never been to another forum that has had active moderation like this. I think this place is better for it.
All that said, I’m thankful for what Madison has done to make this place one of the few wrestling boards that is civil. I think it is time for a change though and I’m hopeful that whoever takes over will be able to continue to make this board one of the bright spots of the wrestling community.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jun 24, 2020 10:36:47 GMT -5
Is there going to be any sort of open conversation on how the place will continue to run? It's still a good forum, but this, the manner with which Madison has decided to split, along with the issues people have clearly had isn't exactly ideal I assume they're gonna update us within the next few days, Madison said who he picks to be the new head has to go through a forum security policy which takes a few days. Also this thread needs to be in every board, not everyone checks Wrest... this is a huge forum changing move. There will be something announced pretty shortly; it's likely better to make it a separate announcement across the board rather than go over things in this thread.
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Post by jason1980s on Jun 24, 2020 11:14:51 GMT -5
Yeah, if you think Madison was the only mod you are clearly not paying attention. There are a fair number of them and they have all played a part in making the forum what it is. Can’t say I agree that it is “censorship” to put a stop to threads that always cause in-fighting but then again I’ve really never been to another forum that has had active moderation like this. I think this place is better for it. All that said, I’m thankful for what Madison has done to make this place one of the few wrestling boards that is civil. I think it is time for a change though and I’m hopeful that whoever takes over will be able to continue to make this board one of the bright spots of the wrestling community. I've never noticed other mods because they don't post in nearly every thread like he did. And it wasn't always respectful posts either. It was usually ones noting how the quoted person was wrong in their facts, beliefs, perceptions. I also never noticed other mods having a hand in the mass closures of threads plus the sticky thread prevent posts (No Cornette threads for example) in the amount he was responsible for. I'm sure the original post was all in hopes he would get that pat on the back, as some have suspected, maybe along with statements like "you've grown up so much" or "you do so much for these boards" and I'm glad he didn't get it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2020 13:52:30 GMT -5
Madison can be a bit acerbic, at times. Hell, I'll even freely admit that I thought he needed to get off his high-horse once in a while and be a little less demeaning in his interactions with people where a simple bit of education, clarification, and a quick "Hey man, don't do that. I'm not mad, but it's your only warning" would suffice. I could probably attribute a lot of that not to a power trip for the sake of ego, but the stress that comes from keeping a place that has thousands of people from descending into pure chaos.
As for censorship and the like... it's a forum. The mods/proboards can censor whatever they want. It's their playground. I could get banned right now as soon as I hit "Post quick reply", and it is what it is. I never noticed a whole lot of "censorship". The only thing I could consider censorship is immediately kiboshing anything that gets into what I call "Thanksgiving Danger Zone" territory. Things like religion, politics, and other areas that tend to bring out fiery and aggressive responses. Frankly, I appreciate that they do so. It's one of the reasons I like coming here; it's an escape from the real world.
If there's one thing I hope out of the new regime, it's that they'll keep the orderliness that Madison fought hard to put in place, but maybe be a little kinder, a little less prickly, and a bit more open as to why decisions are made beyond "Because I said so"
I wish Madison the best. I'm not sure we ever would have been friends in the real world, but I do believe in my heart of hearts that he's a good guy.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 24, 2020 15:34:23 GMT -5
Quite frankly, the moratorium on threads on people like Jim Cornette and Vince Russo is well-earned. The evidence is in every single thread on those subjects before they went into effect.
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