|
Post by HMARK Center on May 4, 2021 17:51:21 GMT -5
Can't lie: I hated the Wolfpac when it was around, even as a 13 year old in '98.
I chalk that up to not having watched WCW super consistently until that year; I hadn't gotten a chance to get sick of the original nWo yet, I was still a Hogan fan, I thought they felt too try-hard, and worst of all, they did that style of promo the Rock did where they'd come out and just say a bunch of catchphrases for the first 5+ minutes, and I haaaaate that. I might've been cooler with them if Savage and Hennig had stuck around and if Hall had joined for real, but I just couldn't get behind Sting and Luger in there and Konnan annoyed the hell out of me at the time.
However...they were over. Big time. And yeah, the way Starrcade '98 and its aftermath were handled meant that Nash and Goldberg were both hurt as top draws, and it was just dumb to do from that perspective.
|
|
|
Post by The Dark Order Inferno on May 4, 2021 18:04:59 GMT -5
They should have dropped the NWO branding and just gone with the Wolfpac name, it would have made it harder for Hogan to politic into getting the two factions reunited so he can continue profiting from the overness of others.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 4, 2021 19:06:40 GMT -5
Wolfpac was the MOTHERF***ING SHIT!!! for a good time period
Just epitomized cool with that theme tho without Nash that shit does not work cause natural charisma and cool factor took away from Luger ugly muggin at the camera
|
|
|
Post by SHAKEMASTER TV9 is Don Knotts on May 4, 2021 19:24:18 GMT -5
The nWo Wolfpac could have started as an nWo off-shoot with the red and black nWo logo, but when they got their own theme music and new wolfhead logo, they could drop the nWo affiliation. Then they just become the Wolfpac, which is how they were usually referred to on tv most of the time like it was "Wolfpac in da hooouuusse!" Not "nWo Wolfpac in the house". Or maybe have Sting get an undisputed win over Hollywood Hogan and then take him off TV for a break that he usually got anyway. Then the nWo faction turns face by just having the nWo Wolfpac, no nWo Hollywood. Build some new heels for them to work with. Excellent point, once Savage got hurt and they went with 4 guys. It made it feel exclusive and elite. Hall in the group would've made sense too, instead of that stupid turn. The Outsiders as faces helping WCW, that would've been a cool storyline. Yeah, there is something just wrong having Nash and Hall on opposite sides.
|
|
Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,296
|
Post by Fade on May 4, 2021 21:42:17 GMT -5
Even being 95% devoted to WWF at that the time, Wolfpac was so huge. It can’t be denied. Similar to Goldberg where even if you didn’t watch WCW, you knew who they were. I will disagree with saying they shouldn’t have been branded as “nWo”, I think that actually enhanced it. Not only because of the parallels to gang-affiliation or dissenting rappers and different labels but because they came off as “the Cool nWo”. While there's no denying they were over during that time, in retrospect the booking didn't make sense. Luger joined the group despite not fitting the "hip-hop" image, and then Sting who was feuding with the nWo for the better part of the year joins them. It also conflicted with his loner persona. You’re absolutely not lying but again, I think it added to it. Where nWo black and white members seemed to “fit”, the weird/odd picks in the Wolfpac made it distinct from the black and white. I was given a red nWo shirt as a gift a few years ago and it constantly gets shouted out. Popularity can’t be denied. OP is on the money.
|
|
|
Post by sungod2020 on May 5, 2021 10:18:21 GMT -5
Even being 95% devoted to WWF at that the time, Wolfpac was so huge. It can’t be denied. Similar to Goldberg where even if you didn’t watch WCW, you knew who they were. I will disagree with saying they shouldn’t have been branded as “nWo”, I think that actually enhanced it. Not only because of the parallels to gang-affiliation or dissenting rappers and different labels but because they came off as “the Cool nWo”. While there's no denying they were over during that time, in retrospect the booking didn't make sense. Luger joined the group despite not fitting the "hip-hop" image, and then Sting who was feuding with the nWo for the better part of the year joins them. It also conflicted with his loner persona. You’re absolutely not lying but again, I think it added to it. Where nWo black and white members seemed to “fit”, the weird/odd picks in the Wolfpac made it distinct from the black and white. I was given a red nWo shirt as a gift a few years ago and it constantly gets shouted out. Popularity can’t be denied. OP is on the money. In regards to the "nWo" brand, it came off as the first(and evidently most successful) attempt at milking it. I think the group would be just as over without the nWo labeled attached to it, at some point, WCW needed to move on from it, and that could've been the first attempt to. Instead, it went into the opposite direction and had them reunite with nWo Hollywood, and then come off as splinter groups(such as the B-team). Touche on the second part though, I never thought of that, though I do feel the first paragraph I just typed remains valid.
|
|
Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,296
|
Post by Fade on May 5, 2021 10:24:21 GMT -5
Even being 95% devoted to WWF at that the time, Wolfpac was so huge. It can’t be denied. Similar to Goldberg where even if you didn’t watch WCW, you knew who they were. I will disagree with saying they shouldn’t have been branded as “nWo”, I think that actually enhanced it. Not only because of the parallels to gang-affiliation or dissenting rappers and different labels but because they came off as “the Cool nWo”. You’re absolutely not lying but again, I think it added to it. Where nWo black and white members seemed to “fit”, the weird/odd picks in the Wolfpac made it distinct from the black and white. I was given a red nWo shirt as a gift a few years ago and it constantly gets shouted out. Popularity can’t be denied. OP is on the money. In regards to the "nWo" brand, it came off as the first(and evidently most successful) attempt at milking it. I think the group would be just as over without the nWo labeled attached to it, at some point, WCW needed to move on from it, and that could've been the first attempt to. Instead, it went into the opposite direction and had them reunite with nWo Hollywood, and then come off as splinter groups(such as the B-team). Touche on the second part though, I never thought of that, though I do feel the first paragraph I just typed remains valid. Yeah, similar page. And I agree with the sentiment that through time. Organically and naturally the “nWo” label would shed and they’d just be “Wolfpac”. It was certainly heading there.
|
|
ERON
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,792
|
Post by ERON on May 5, 2021 12:03:57 GMT -5
This is why I've always vehemently disagreed with the notion that the nWo should have ended after Starrcade '97. There was serious money in a Hogan/nWo Hollywood vs. Nash/nWo Wolfpac feud. Only after that feud ran its course should the nWo have been phased out. The Wolfpac could continue without the nWo branding at that point. The rest of the nWo could have turned on Hogan after losing to the Wolfpac, leading to Hogan returning to the red-and-yellow and taking out the remaining nWo members one by one.
|
|
|
Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on May 5, 2021 12:47:34 GMT -5
I'll never understand the logic of making a baby face nWo faction to make them easier to market, and then promptly tossing it in the dustbin when they were still white hot. Eric really lived cutting off his nose to spite his face.
|
|
|
Post by sfvega on May 5, 2021 12:57:45 GMT -5
Revisionist history remembers Nash over Goldberg being laughable, but at the time, Nash was as over as over can be. For as much as people thought DDP could have been the guy at Halloween Havoc, Nash and the Wolfpac were even more over. You did end up with a Goldberg who lost his shine, a Nash who no longer seemed cool, and a champion Hogan that literally nobody asked for. But if Hogan had been willing to job, a true babyface Nash beating him would be amazing long-term booking and really strapped the rocket to Nash. His "shoot you right between the eyes" promo is one of the the best promos of the Nitro era and really tapped into how tired people were of Hogan's shtick. The way everything worked out also negatively affected Konnan and Sting as well. So much potential, but so bad all around. WCW's downfall in a nutshell.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on May 5, 2021 17:52:10 GMT -5
This is why I've always vehemently disagreed with the notion that the nWo should have ended after Starrcade '97. There was serious money in a Hogan/nWo Hollywood vs. Nash/nWo Wolfpac feud. Only after that feud ran its course should the nWo have been phased out. The Wolfpac could continue without the nWo branding at that point. The rest of the nWo could have turned on Hogan after losing to the Wolfpac, leading to Hogan returning to the red-and-yellow and taking out the remaining nWo members one by one. Yeah, old Observer issues and whatnot point to the nWo, and Hogan in particular, still being a draw in '98, so just ending it right then and there wouldn't have made a lot of sense, and the Wolfpac itself wound up being very over. Granted, part of the numbers being the way they were likely had to do with Hogan not really playing ball and building up draws behind him for whenever he might've had to step back, but still, it was what it was, and it's hard to blame WCW for at least making the attempt to keep it going awhile longer...it was in the final execution that everything fell apart, not the initial. I've mused this fantasy booking idea before, but I've thought there was a great story to tell in '98 with Hogan losing the title to Sting, the nWo splitting due to the drama stemming from that and Hogan accusing a lot of the nWo of not having his back, Nash forming the Wolfpac, Hogan bringing in Bret Hart as his personal Hitman/consigliere (so, up to this point pretty much what actually happened in early '98)...but then Hart starts stoking Hogan's growing paranoia after the title loss/faction split, we build to a Hollywood vs. Wolfpac blowoff at War Games or something, and at that moment Hart moves to depose Hogan as leader, taking over the nWo and making it over in his image to serve as the new big heel faction. Like you say, that frees up Hogan to go away for a bit, return as a babyface, and then you can build to Hogan vs. Hart at a big card like Starrcade '99 or something, which wouldn't have to be for the title to still be a huge draw. Obviously I know now all of this could've gone totally to plan given injuries and whatnot, but it's just painful to see the talent and the draws WCW had at that point and how they seemingly made almost exclusively poor decisions with how to use them as the years went on...and some of the people making the worst recommendations were those talented draws, themselves!
|
|
|
Post by chronocross on May 5, 2021 17:59:33 GMT -5
Truth. They were legit as popular as you said. Maybe not quite up there with DX overall, but definitely the most over group in WCW at the time. Also, their entrance theme. Seriously: Apparently this is the song Nash wanted to originally use but WCW wanted their own so we got the Wolfpack theme. You can definitely hear the similarities They actually used that theme on a house show in 98 (not sure if they did it more often): www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSeV5b4rKtEThe Wolfpac was over like crazy in 98, I didn't mind the title win off of Goldberg but the events of 1/4/99 threw everything down the toilet.
|
|
fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 39,141
|
Post by fw91 on May 5, 2021 18:58:59 GMT -5
They were cooler, but NWO already jumped the shark at that point.
|
|
|
Post by Z-A Sandbaggin' Son of a b!%@h on May 5, 2021 19:22:16 GMT -5
I had 3 different wolf pack T-shirts. Black red letters. Red black letters. And red with wolf. Considering all the available shirts and shirts I had. I think I only owned more DX shirts.
|
|
Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,230
|
Post by Jonathan Michaels on May 6, 2021 2:41:58 GMT -5
Revisionist history remembers Nash over Goldberg being laughable, but at the time, Nash was as over as over can be. For as much as people thought DDP could have been the guy at Halloween Havoc, Nash and the Wolfpac were even more over. You did end up with a Goldberg who lost his shine, a Nash who no longer seemed cool, and a champion Hogan that literally nobody asked for. But if Hogan had been willing to job, a true babyface Nash beating him would be amazing long-term booking and really strapped the rocket to Nash. His "shoot you right between the eyes" promo is one of the the best promos of the Nitro era and really tapped into how tired people were of Hogan's shtick. The way everything worked out also negatively affected Konnan and Sting as well. So much potential, but so bad all around. WCW's downfall in a nutshell. Honestly, if anyone was going to break the streak, Nash was the right guy to do it. They just screwed up the execution. The problem with turning Nash heel is that people just want to like Kevin Nash. Hell, even John Wick left him alone.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,203
|
Post by Mozenrath on May 6, 2021 2:55:55 GMT -5
The Fingerpoke was just terribly short-sighted.
I will stand by Nash being the guy to beat Goldberg. I do think that had a point, and that as ridiculous as the Scott Hall stungun was, I get that they were trying to protect Goldberg with that, cheesy or not.
I think that they should have either stuck with the Wolfpac as faces and kept Hogan's mitts off of it, or tried to turn Hogan face to begin with by having him fall short against Goldberg in a rematch and get called mauled by nWo members and his nWo shirt ripped off while in a heap and go back to yellow and red. Better yet, do both, and have Hogan being a face by himself and trying to earn peoples' trust back. Then you end up with nWo vs Wolfpac with Hogan on his own as another factor, probably being viewed with distrust by DDP, Goldberg, etc, and having to slowly win people over by blocking nWo interference, etc. Maybe he's on the level, maybe he's not.
|
|
|
Post by evilone on May 6, 2021 3:53:15 GMT -5
The Fingerpoke was just terribly short-sighted. I will stand by Nash being the guy to beat Goldberg. I do think that had a point, and that as ridiculous as the Scott Hall stungun was, I get that they were trying to protect Goldberg with that, cheesy or not. I think that they should have either stuck with the Wolfpac as faces and kept Hogan's mitts off of it, or tried to turn Hogan face to begin with by having him fall short against Goldberg in a rematch and get called mauled by nWo members and his nWo shirt ripped off while in a heap and go back to yellow and red. Better yet, do both, and have Hogan being a face by himself and trying to earn peoples' trust back. Then you end up with nWo vs Wolfpac with Hogan on his own as another factor, probably being viewed with distrust by DDP, Goldberg, etc, and having to slowly win people over by blocking nWo interference, etc. Maybe he's on the level, maybe he's not. Hogan loosing to Sting, getting paranoid, becoming a liability and slowly getting kicked out by nWo as they rebrand to wolfpack sends Hogan to redemption path. That is the most logical outcome but that didn't work for the brother. Reality and fantasy will forever interweave in what could have been except that reality sucked big time because pythons didn't want to play along.
|
|
|
Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on May 6, 2021 5:08:45 GMT -5
I can confirm Wolfpac was pretty damn massive in my junior high class. I had the t-shirt myself and one friend even signed a class notebook saying “stay cool and it’s all bout the Wolfpac”. And this was also during while Austin-mania was blowing up, so they were definitely over with the younger crowd. For all the dumb booking surrounding Nash and whatnot, him and his boys had that magnetism and came off like dudes you’d want to party with.
|
|
|
Post by karl100589 on May 6, 2021 5:27:22 GMT -5
This is why I've always vehemently disagreed with the notion that the nWo should have ended after Starrcade '97. There was serious money in a Hogan/nWo Hollywood vs. Nash/nWo Wolfpac feud. Only after that feud ran its course should the nWo have been phased out. The Wolfpac could continue without the nWo branding at that point. The rest of the nWo could have turned on Hogan after losing to the Wolfpac, leading to Hogan returning to the red-and-yellow and taking out the remaining nWo members one by one. Yeah, old Observer issues and whatnot point to the nWo, and Hogan in particular, still being a draw in '98, so just ending it right then and there wouldn't have made a lot of sense, and the Wolfpac itself wound up being very over. Granted, part of the numbers being the way they were likely had to do with Hogan not really playing ball and building up draws behind him for whenever he might've had to step back, but still, it was what it was, and it's hard to blame WCW for at least making the attempt to keep it going awhile longer...it was in the final execution that everything fell apart, not the initial. I've mused this fantasy booking idea before, but I've thought there was a great story to tell in '98 with Hogan losing the title to Sting, the nWo splitting due to the drama stemming from that and Hogan accusing a lot of the nWo of not having his back, Nash forming the Wolfpac, Hogan bringing in Bret Hart as his personal Hitman/consigliere (so, up to this point pretty much what actually happened in early '98)...but then Hart starts stoking Hogan's growing paranoia after the title loss/faction split, we build to a Hollywood vs. Wolfpac blowoff at War Games or something, and at that moment Hart moves to depose Hogan as leader, taking over the nWo and making it over in his image to serve as the new big heel faction. Like you say, that frees up Hogan to go away for a bit, return as a babyface, and then you can build to Hogan vs. Hart at a big card like Starrcade '99 or something, which wouldn't have to be for the title to still be a huge draw. Obviously I know now all of this could've gone totally to plan given injuries and whatnot, but it's just painful to see the talent and the draws WCW had at that point and how they seemingly made almost exclusively poor decisions with how to use them as the years went on...and some of the people making the worst recommendations were those talented draws, themselves!
NWO Pink and Black?
|
|
|
Post by The Barber on May 6, 2021 6:29:54 GMT -5
I remember hearing people in high school say that they would stop watching WCW if Goldberg beat Nash. The Wolfpac was over. In fact, I saw WAY more Nash shirts than Goldberg shirts in my town.
|
|