chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,016
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Post by chazraps on Nov 22, 2021 0:52:28 GMT -5
Big E feels like a main eventer to me. The way he carries the belt, the presence he has and the way he's been with mainstream outlets is as good as any first time WWE champion of the past five years has been.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
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Posts: 237,269
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Nov 22, 2021 0:55:04 GMT -5
I don't even deny Big E putting in the work and caring about being champion. I don't doubt his PR hustle nor do I doubt that he's doing his best. In those realms I don't even see an issue with Big E and never have. Big E is a great performer with charisma enough to fill a planet.
His company imo just doesn't put in the same effort. Hence why people think he feels like he isn't being used right. It's not a sleight to Big E that the perception is he's not being booked like he should be. It's just a booking pattern seen with the company time in and time out.
It boils down also to one guy looking way too strong and running over everyone (Roman) and other challengers/opponents for Big E feeling like a waste of time because WWE has booked them like a complete waste of time... so Big E suffers for it.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 22, 2021 6:18:24 GMT -5
He felt like more of a main eventer before he won it.
He's beaten world champion caliber wrestlers plenty of times. He's credible. He's just had f***-all to do.
Honestly, the only excuse I can think of for tonight's booking would be if A. they want Xavier Wood to beat Roman in a match, title or otherwise, and get his own revenge without big brother to do it for him. I'm sure it's in fact B. Roman insults Smackdown for Roman being the only one who really won anything for the brand.
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clifford
King Koopa
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Post by clifford on Nov 22, 2021 6:21:02 GMT -5
They've done this for years. Punk's first few WHC reigns spring to mind; elevated to world champ in only name.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Nov 22, 2021 6:49:00 GMT -5
Yeah, I think the comparison to Big E feeling like CM Punk or peak-Dolph Ziggler as WHC makes a ton of sense. They may very well be the most over person on their respective show and it's a valued position to be in, but make no mistake, the number 1 guy holds the other title and everyone knows it.
Also, note how the two people I compared Big E to also have Money in the Bank cash-ins as a common thread there. Now, I don't think Money in the Bank is exactly the root cause here as plenty of holders have gone on to become bonafide main eventers, but there is a strong correlation here between second banana champions and having those reigns start with fluke title victories, like the office didn't have the confidence to give them titles with things like building to a climatic victory beyond just one win in a multi-man ladder match or having them beat an established main eventer without an asterix next to the result.
I remember when everyone was overjoyed when Big E won the title, and to be honest, I was too. But I always had that nagging feeling this could have been so much better if he had won in the main event of a PPV that was built over the course of several weeks, and had done it without Lashley's very conveniently timed knee injury.
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Post by blackwrestlingfan on Nov 22, 2021 6:49:35 GMT -5
I completely disagree with this. The issue isn't that a "Big E isn't being booked as a world champion." The issue is Reigns and how they book every champion on the roster. Saying he's like a midcarder now is just false because on Raw he's definitely built up as being the lead champion there, he's the lead guy. If we break it down to as to what makes a "WWE Champion"... Big E is one of the most popular people on the roster, he's great on the mic, great in the ring, he can be in multiple segments and things will go fine. He's got that. Tonight's one of the only times he hasn't had the crowd behind him over his opponents. Don't let one night trick you into thinking that's how everybody thinks because you and others might not like Big E, this is Brooklyn. Out of all the world champions I've seen these past years, hell maybe decade, Big E's the one I'm seeing get all the mainstream press, even more than Becky had. He's at these real sporting events promoting himself, on known popular shows like The Breakfast Club, he's always being brought up outside of the WWE bubble so from a mainstream perspective, he's making it work. I haven't seen any world champion be in that many outlets this past decade. Hell he was just doing it again this weekend. In the WWE bubble Big E's only lost 3 matches since becoming WWE Champion. One is this Reigns match, one was a tag match by count out and another was that 3 person tag last week where Riddle lost it for their team. From a defense and "hey this guy's better than everyone else on this brand" perspective he's got that. If we're talking about Big E going from "feud to feud with no direction"...that's every single champion in this company. If we're talking about Reigns being better than Big E...Reigns is presented as being better than everyone and they're clearly sacrificing Big E for Reigns because of this Reigns/Rock match that we're definitely getting now after tonight's show, it's obvious.
Big E is presented as a WWE Champion and he's working. The only thing you can do to make him better is him having a pure arc as champion (which almost nobody has had this past decade) and for him to be better than Reigns. What he isn't presented as is being the best WWE Champion possible because you've got Reigns out there and because this company isn't booking any champion right and that is also including Reigns. Saying Big E isn't working is like saying nobody is working because everybody's in the same boat. If that's the case the thread needs to be "no champion is working" rather than singling out Big E because he's working better than all of them. I think this is just, again, an issue with Reigns and an issue with how they book champions. It doesn't matter how great Big E can be because he'll always be under Reigns in their eye and with that said it doesn't matter what Reigns does because he's still not being booked as best he can be. Totally agree with this 100%.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 22, 2021 7:26:17 GMT -5
Yeah, I think the comparison to Big E feeling like CM Punk or peak-Dolph Ziggler as WHC makes a ton of sense. They may very well be the most over person on their respective show and it's a valued position to be in, but make no mistake, the number 1 guy holds the other title and everyone knows it. Also, note how the two people I compared Big E to also have Money in the Bank cash-ins as a common thread there. Now, I don't think Money in the Bank is exactly the root cause here as plenty of holders have gone on to become bonafide main eventers, but there is a strong correlation here between second banana champions and having those reigns start with fluke title victories, like the office didn't have the confidence to give them titles with things like building to a climatic victory beyond just one win in a multi-man ladder match or having them beat an established main eventer without an asterix next to the result. I remember when everyone was overjoyed when Big E won the title, and to be honest, I was too. But I always had that nagging feeling this could have been so much better if he had won in the main event of a PPV that was built over the course of several weeks, and had done it without Lashley's very conveniently timed knee injury. To jump on that side note, I know people enjoy it and it's getting a big stadium show for it next year, but man, I think the Money in the Bank concept is lame as hell.
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Post by Super Duper Dragunov on Nov 22, 2021 8:54:36 GMT -5
Hard disagree on the hard disagrees. Tonight did E no favors. He needed that win more than Roman "worldbeater" Reigns.
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Post by noobeast on Nov 22, 2021 9:40:10 GMT -5
He was never main event calibre in my opinion. Lashley should've kept the title till he met Lesnar at WM. Totally agree about Big E. E is an entertaining enough dude, I suppose, but not one single thing about him says "main event" to me. He was perfect in his role as the muscle in New Day. Not everyone is a world champion.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Nov 22, 2021 9:48:21 GMT -5
They can't book babyfaces.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2021 9:49:40 GMT -5
I liked Lashley's reign, but the thought of him still being champion right now while Roman still has his stranglehold on the Universal Title sounds like a nightmare to me.
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Nov 22, 2021 9:50:07 GMT -5
Yeah, I think the comparison to Big E feeling like CM Punk or peak-Dolph Ziggler as WHC makes a ton of sense. They may very well be the most over person on their respective show and it's a valued position to be in, but make no mistake, the number 1 guy holds the other title and everyone knows it. Also, note how the two people I compared Big E to also have Money in the Bank cash-ins as a common thread there. Now, I don't think Money in the Bank is exactly the root cause here as plenty of holders have gone on to become bonafide main eventers, but there is a strong correlation here between second banana champions and having those reigns start with fluke title victories, like the office didn't have the confidence to give them titles with things like building to a climatic victory beyond just one win in a multi-man ladder match or having them beat an established main eventer without an asterix next to the result. I remember when everyone was overjoyed when Big E won the title, and to be honest, I was too. But I always had that nagging feeling this could have been so much better if he had won in the main event of a PPV that was built over the course of several weeks, and had done it without Lashley's very conveniently timed knee injury. To jump on that side note, I know people enjoy it and it's getting a big stadium show for it next year, but man, I think the Money in the Bank concept is lame as hell. It's a very tired concept but unfortunately it fits WWE's present day motto of "do as little work as possible" like a glove.
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Post by sportatorium on Nov 22, 2021 9:58:30 GMT -5
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Ozman
Samurai Cop
Chi-Town!!!
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Post by Ozman on Nov 22, 2021 14:21:00 GMT -5
I predict that Seth Rollins will take the title off of Big E before the build to Wrestlemania begins.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2021 14:35:12 GMT -5
I predict that Seth Rollins will take the title off of Big E before the build to Wrestlemania begins. Yea Big-E aint making it past the rumble as champion. If for nothing else terrifyingly delving into Vince's reasoning is because he doesn't see Big-E as a guy with big enough mainstream appeal etc to rep the company as its top champion during mania season.
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rocket
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,801
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Post by rocket on Nov 22, 2021 14:37:09 GMT -5
Once again, the outcome tells you who they really care about in the WWE, titles be dammed. Feels like this has happened way too much over the years.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
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Posts: 39,309
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Post by Push R Truth on Nov 22, 2021 14:41:09 GMT -5
The WWE Title today feels like the Intercontinental Title of like... the mid 90's
It's only "equal" to the Universal Title in WWE-speak. It's obviously tier 2 by the actions.
Anywho, if your name ain't Roman you don't matter. Add another casualty to the massive evergrowing list.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 21,134
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Post by asuka007 on Nov 22, 2021 14:58:02 GMT -5
WWE cannot book a babyface well to save their lives these days.
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Jonathan Michaels
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Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,230
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Nov 22, 2021 15:36:27 GMT -5
He's being booked like he's the Intercontinental Champion while Brock is away with the real belt. As opposed to when Miz had the IC title while Brock was away and did his best to make it the main title?
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Nov 22, 2021 16:29:03 GMT -5
Yeah, I think the comparison to Big E feeling like CM Punk or peak-Dolph Ziggler as WHC makes a ton of sense. They may very well be the most over person on their respective show and it's a valued position to be in, but make no mistake, the number 1 guy holds the other title and everyone knows it. Also, note how the two people I compared Big E to also have Money in the Bank cash-ins as a common thread there. Now, I don't think Money in the Bank is exactly the root cause here as plenty of holders have gone on to become bonafide main eventers, but there is a strong correlation here between second banana champions and having those reigns start with fluke title victories, like the office didn't have the confidence to give them titles with things like building to a climatic victory beyond just one win in a multi-man ladder match or having them beat an established main eventer without an asterix next to the result. I remember when everyone was overjoyed when Big E won the title, and to be honest, I was too. But I always had that nagging feeling this could have been so much better if he had won in the main event of a PPV that was built over the course of several weeks, and had done it without Lashley's very conveniently timed knee injury. To jump on that side note, I know people enjoy it and it's getting a big stadium show for it next year, but man, I think the Money in the Bank concept is lame as hell. It's definitely outlived its usefulness. They basically put the belt on Miz for a week last year because they were panicked that people would see the briefcase as useless.
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