What exactly are we trying to protect with these finishes?

[EoE: Well There's Your Problem]

You're turning half your roster into easily-distracted lumps that can't focus, and the other half into paper tigers who seemingly can't win unless the first half of people get easily distracted. BUT I GUESS IT'S OK BECAUSE NOBODY GOT LEGITIMATELY BEATEN WITH A FINISHING MOVE AND PINNED TO THE MAT FOR THREE SECONDS, OR FORCED TO SUBMIT TO A PAINFUL SUBMISSION HOLD, TWO FATES WORSE THAN DEATH.

How did we get here? If we went back to "all clean finishes, no matter what", we'd be OK with it, right? Could it really be any worse than what they're doing now? People are only really being "buried" with clean finishes because they're not getting these lame protected finishes.

[Tiger Millionaire]

They're trying to protect themselves because they can't book for shit.

[Chiral]

If they're really booking for a nebulous unpleasable "we" they should like stop

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

The Brand is the star, not the wrestlers

The brand that is bleeding fans and relevancy by the week because no one is a star anymore

[Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby]

Gotta save something for later. With absolutely no plan for when "later" is.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Vince tried to out a Pencil over tonight harder than his current world champion, let that sink in.

[asuka007]

WWE do not understand what “protecting someone” is supposed to actually mean.

[Deleted]

These non finishes happen multiple times a week now. It's ridiculous.

And it reminds me why I never watch these shows live anymore.

Why would I want my time wasted? Cause that's what watching a 20 minute match that ends in a DQ does - Wastes our time and serves no purpose.

I would prefer Raw was filled with storylines, promos and character development than these meaningless matches.

WWE want to be "entertainment" and not wrestling? Well focus on that then and stop filling up your shows with pointless matches that have zero buildup or meaning.

[Tiger Millionaire]

Maybe the distraction finishes would matter if wins and loses matter; but nothing matters, so who cares about losing a match?

[EoE: Well There's Your Problem]

Dec 13, 2021 23:26:48 GMT -5 Tiger Millionaire said:

Maybe the distraction finishes would matter if wins and loses matter; but nothing matters, so who cares about losing a match?

The great paradox of the "wins and losses don't matter" company is that we're at the point here where you seemingly have to be an undefeatable destroyer that always gets the last word, the stand tall at the end bits, for people to want to try to give a shit about you (if they don't utterly resent you for it first), and anyone who is seen to look even the slightest bit weak or vulnerable is UNWORTHY.

Yet, AEW actively count the win/loss records for every talent, they have their roster talents losing clean all the time on Dynamite or Rampage, and everything's hunky-dory.

[Mecca]

Dec 13, 2021 23:34:24 GMT -5 EoE: Well There's Your Problem said:

Dec 13, 2021 23:26:48 GMT -5 Tiger Millionaire said:

Maybe the distraction finishes would matter if wins and loses matter; but nothing matters, so who cares about losing a match?

The great paradox of the "wins and losses don't matter" company is that we're at the point here where you seemingly have to be an undefeatable destroyer that always gets the last word, the stand tall at the end bits, for people to want to try to give a shit about you (if they don't utterly resent you for it first), and anyone who is seen to look even the slightest bit weak or vulnerable is UNWORTHY.

Yet, AEW actively count the win/loss records for every talent, they have their roster talents losing clean all the time on Dynamite or Rampage, and everything's hunky-dory.

Characters that are booked well can take losses and rebound, the WWE is basically a house of cards no one is strong enough to withstand a clean loss without toppling everything.

[Starshine]

When no-one's over, you have to protect everyone, which ironically protects no-one.

[HMARK Center]

I don’t even think you need only clean finishes; just having definitive ones would be alright, too, e.g. heels can still cheat, but actually get solid visible pin falls against their opponents, or faces use roll ups but in the form of an actual impressive wrestling hold, not a simple distraction schoolboy one.

But then there’s also the whole “match results should contribute to ongoing stories and character developments” thing, and WWE routinely ignores that, leaving people only able to care if a match actually does have a definitive winner.

[EoE: Well There's Your Problem]

Dec 14, 2021 5:43:36 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

I don’t even think you need only clean finishes; just having definitive ones would be alright, too, e.g. heels can still cheat, but actually get solid visible pin falls against their opponents, or faces use roll ups but in the form of an actual impressive wrestling hold, not a simple distraction schoolboy one.

But then there’s also the whole “match results should contribute to ongoing stories and character developments” thing, and WWE routinely ignores that, leaving people only able to care if a match actually does have a definitive winner.

To use an example from RAW tonight... Big E losing because he was focused on his opponent and missed MVP sneaking from behind in a No DQ match and smacking him in the knee with his cane, which led to Lashley hitting him with a second spear (one of Lashley's finishers) in the match and getting the pinfall: Acceptable dirty finish?

Entrance music distractions and random run-ins: Not so much

[HMARK Center]

Dec 14, 2021 6:03:27 GMT -5 EoE: Well There's Your Problem said:

Dec 14, 2021 5:43:36 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

I don’t even think you need only clean finishes; just having definitive ones would be alright, too, e.g. heels can still cheat, but actually get solid visible pin falls against their opponents, or faces use roll ups but in the form of an actual impressive wrestling hold, not a simple distraction schoolboy one.

But then there’s also the whole “match results should contribute to ongoing stories and character developments” thing, and WWE routinely ignores that, leaving people only able to care if a match actually does have a definitive winner.

To use an example from RAW tonight... Big E losing because he was focused on his opponent and missed MVP sneaking from behind in a No DQ match and smacking him in the knee with his cane, which led to Lashley hitting him with a second spear (one of Lashley's finishers) in the match and getting the pinfall: Acceptable dirty finish?

Entrance music distractions and random run-ins: Not so much

I think the Lashley/Big E ending would work, but having the heel Lashley win three matches in one night while face Big E can't manage one against a tired opponent definitely hurts it.

Have that finish done in isolation as part of a series of matches between the two? Different story.

[thehottag]

WWE: "Wins & losses don't matter"

Also WWE: "We have to protect everyone from losing clean"

[khali]

It is hilarious how in their attempt to make no one look weak by losing clean, they make people look even worse by cockamamie ways to “protect” them.

It’ll hard to ever top the Reigns/Finn Balor finish. Instead of having him looking bad by getting pinned, we’ll have the top rope collapse knocking him half dead and cutting off his special lights as soon as he lands. And then we won’t follow up on it.

[Mochi Lone Wolf]

The only person I ended up wanting to cheer last was Bobby Lashley. Doesn’t matter how he did it, the guy wrestled 3 times and won each time. In an art form like wrestling which operates on the idea of living vicariously through someone? That leaves an impression.


Not what I should come away thinking about the guy who is meant to be the top heel on your A show.

[nisidhe]

I don't think it matters anymore what they do. They've so utterly poisoned the well for themselves that we're in WCW late 2000 at this point.

WWE has lost the trust of its fans and can't conceive of a way back. Nobody currently in charge either can or is willing to change the booking strategy in a way that will make the fans come back.

[eJm]

It's funny this came up because Brandon Thurston just collected stats in the same way our EoE would about DQs, count outs and non-finishes

What amazes me more than WWE being second on this list is the fact that WCW topped it and stuck as the top one despite being dead for 20 years. If that doesn't say anything about how much goodwill they eroded during their worst period, I don't know what does.