asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by asuka007 on Dec 30, 2021 11:57:50 GMT -5
I think what bugged a lot of the WCW midcard guys, and cruiserweights as well for that matter, is that while it was not impossible to rise up the card a bit. You almost always hit a giant glass ceiling that prevented you from reaching past a certain point. No matter how good or how over you were.
Benoit got very over for example, yet they did not really push him to the main event until they absolutely HAD to because they were desperate to try and get him to stay.
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Post by CeilingFan on Dec 30, 2021 12:02:14 GMT -5
I think what bugged a lot of the WCW midcard guys, and cruiserweights as well for that matter, is that while it was not impossible to rise up the card a bit. You almost always hit a giant glass ceiling that prevented you from reaching past a certain point. No matter how good or how over you were. Benoit got very over for example, yet they did not really push him to the main event until they absolutely HAD to because they were desperate to try and get him to stay. You're right. Perry Saturn and Wrath were both red hot in 1998 but they weren't elevated.
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r.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by r. on Dec 30, 2021 12:55:42 GMT -5
Good for her. If you’re burned out by working your life out for a company that only cares about feeding their top stars, and there are other options out there? Get out of there. Vince needs more people on his roster who are willing to say “Doesn’t work for me, brother.” these days. That’s the only way he gets the hint. I suspect he considers the people that work for him as interchangeable and replaceable.
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thehottag
Don Corleone
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Post by thehottag on Dec 30, 2021 13:01:53 GMT -5
There's a game called 'Shadow of the Colossus' on the PS2 where the protagonist is tasked with slaying gigantic beasts - however, when they do so,our hero is corrupted by a dark force, eventually becoming a monster themselves.
I like to think that once Vince won the Monday Night War, this is what happened to him. By becoming 'owner of WCW' he took on all the traits synonymous with that position, & adopted their booking practices.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Dec 30, 2021 13:18:30 GMT -5
There's a game called 'Shadow of the Colossus' on the PS2 where the protagonist is tasked with slaying gigantic beasts - however, when they do so,our hero is corrupted by a dark force, eventually becoming a monster themselves. I like to think that once Vince won the Monday Night War, this is what happened to him. By becoming 'owner of WCW' he took on all the traits synonymous with that position, & adopted their booking practices. And just like WCW Vince put all his eggs in one basket. WCW ignored PPV, merch, live events, etc. to concentrate solely on TV ratings to impress the Turner brass. When their own bad decisions tanked the ratings they had no income streams. Vince is putting all his efforts into TV anf is making bank right now. But if all of his bad decisions continue to drive his audience away and those TV deals go away he is sunk. PPV has gone away. He has closed the network and is dependant on someone paying him for the footage. Live events dont make much profit. I would be surprised if merch makes much money seeing how much ends up on clearance now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2021 13:20:09 GMT -5
I mentioned it already but people really do need to remember that Toni's career was already on the downswing when she ended up with WWE. Her Progress run fell off a cliff, and her Stardom stint was just outright terrible. She got outclassed by Jinny and other women real quickly in Progress, and had a real nasty meltdown in Stardom, because she was massively unpopular with fans there. That's not on WWE. That's on Toni herself. And while they didn't do her any favors on the main roster, they gave her several chances to do well in NXT and she fumbled the ball almost every time. It's little wonder they lost confidence in her. Really? Wow. I thought she was The Golden Child judging people's comments on her since she debuted in NXT UK. Maybe it's her looks or something that made them think differently but she always seemed sorta like someone who should be a better wrestler, talker and well talent and that didn't happen. I wish her the best and hope she improves, I hope she becomes happy. That's sad.
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mistery
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Post by mistery on Dec 30, 2021 13:24:29 GMT -5
I mentioned it already but people really do need to remember that Toni's career was already on the downswing when she ended up with WWE. Her Progress run fell off a cliff, and her Stardom stint was just outright terrible. She got outclassed by Jinny and other women real quickly in Progress, and had a real nasty meltdown in Stardom, because she was massively unpopular with fans there. That's not on WWE. That's on Toni herself. And while they didn't do her any favors on the main roster, they gave her several chances to do well in NXT and she fumbled the ball almost every time. It's little wonder they lost confidence in her. Really? Wow. I thought she was The Golden Child judging people's comments on her since she debuted in NXT UK. Maybe it's her looks or something that made them think differently but she always seemed sorta like someone who should be a better wrestler, talker and well talent and that didn't happen. I wish her the best and hope she improves, I hope she becomes happy. That's sad. Like don't get me wrong. She's an okay wrestler, but that's literally it. She has never truly had a breakout match that didn't involve a woman who was significantly better than her. There's a reason why I feel like she was a victim of the hype machine. People kept hyping her up as some sort of wrestling prodigy when she's never actually shown any signs of that.
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thehottag
Don Corleone
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Post by thehottag on Dec 30, 2021 13:54:39 GMT -5
But if all of his bad decisions continue to drive his audience away and those TV deals go away he is sunk. This is what people seem to forget when they talk about how much money WWE is making. It's not generating income through traditional revenue streams like ticket sales or merch, but being gifted it by TV companies & a Saudi prince. Now, on the one hand it has been a good thing, as lack of audiences due to disinterest or the pandemic isn't as disastrous as it would otherwise be. But what it does is create a Sword of Damocles situation, where WWE are facing devastation by the stroke of a pen. This Saudi deal will end one day... maybe not next year, or even in 5, but one day it will end. That's suddenly a billion annual dollars they're losing out on, in one go. Where on Earth are they going to replace that revenue? Certainly not in ticket sales or merchandise. Vince will probably be gone by the time this all kicks off, either selling up or departing this world. But it will happen eventually, & when it does, I really don't see how WWE in it's current form can survive it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2021 13:58:10 GMT -5
Toni's my second favorite female wrestler, right behind Sasha, but she has major holes in her game she needs to fix in terms of her character and promo game. That's why I'm excited to see her go to AEW hopefully. She'll get a chance to work on all that stuff. She SHOULD have had more time to figure that out in NXT instead of not being used for months at a time. Toni's promo work is actually really good now IMO. I also thought her character work after she turned heel in NXT was good, but it was just hard to take her character seriously since she kept losing.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Dec 30, 2021 14:00:03 GMT -5
But if all of his bad decisions continue to drive his audience away and those TV deals go away he is sunk. This is what people seem to forget when they talk about how much money WWE is making. It's not generating income through traditional revenue streams like ticket sales or merch, but being gifted it by TV companies & a Saudi prince. Now, on the one hand it has been a good thing, as lack of audiences due to disinterest or the pandemic isn't as disastrous as it would otherwise be. But what it does is create a Sword of Damocles situation, where WWE are facing devastation by the stroke of a pen. This Saudi deal will end one day... maybe not next year, or even in 5, but one day it will end. That's suddenly a billion annual dollars they're losing out on, in one go. Where on Earth are they going to replace that revenue? Certainly not in ticket sales or merchandise. Vince will probably be gone by the time this all kicks off, either selling up or departing this world. But it will happen eventually, & when it does, I really don't see how WWE in it's current form can survive it. By the time it happens, they'll be a division of NBCU and it won't matter.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2021 14:02:24 GMT -5
Toni has always felt like one of those talents who makes it pretty obvious when you watch them when they are up to really work and when they are not just feeling it.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
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Post by cjh on Dec 30, 2021 14:04:12 GMT -5
But if all of his bad decisions continue to drive his audience away and those TV deals go away he is sunk. This is what people seem to forget when they talk about how much money WWE is making. It's not generating income through traditional revenue streams like ticket sales or merch, but being gifted it by TV companies & a Saudi prince. Now, on the one hand it has been a good thing, as lack of audiences due to disinterest or the pandemic isn't as disastrous as it would otherwise be. But what it does is create a Sword of Damocles situation, where WWE are facing devastation by the stroke of a pen. This Saudi deal will end one day... maybe not next year, or even in 5, but one day it will end. That's suddenly a billion annual dollars they're losing out on, in one go. Where on Earth are they going to replace that revenue? Certainly not in ticket sales or merchandise. Vince will probably be gone by the time this all kicks off, either selling up or departing this world. But it will happen eventually, & when it does, I really don't see how WWE in it's current form can survive it. WWE gets paid $50 million for one SA event, and they've never done more than 2 per year.
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Post by blackwrestlingfan on Dec 30, 2021 14:07:56 GMT -5
But if all of his bad decisions continue to drive his audience away and those TV deals go away he is sunk. This is what people seem to forget when they talk about how much money WWE is making. It's not generating income through traditional revenue streams like ticket sales or merch, but being gifted it by TV companies & a Saudi prince. Now, on the one hand it has been a good thing, as lack of audiences due to disinterest or the pandemic isn't as disastrous as it would otherwise be. But what it does is create a Sword of Damocles situation, where WWE are facing devastation by the stroke of a pen. This Saudi deal will end one day... maybe not next year, or even in 5, but one day it will end. That's suddenly a billion annual dollars they're losing out on, in one go. Where on Earth are they going to replace that revenue? Certainly not in ticket sales or merchandise. Vince will probably be gone by the time this all kicks off, either selling up or departing this world. But it will happen eventually, & when it does, I really don't see how WWE in it's current form can survive it. They’re going to get another billion dollar deal from NBCU and Fox in 3 years and then 8 years from now, Vince will probably be retired or dead and then it’ll be somebody else’s problem. But they’ll survive. WWE is too big not to. Thinking WWE is going to just up and implode is asinine. It’s like thinking AEW is just going to close its doors anytime soon. It’s not going to happen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2021 14:14:19 GMT -5
This is what people seem to forget when they talk about how much money WWE is making. It's not generating income through traditional revenue streams like ticket sales or merch, but being gifted it by TV companies & a Saudi prince. Now, on the one hand it has been a good thing, as lack of audiences due to disinterest or the pandemic isn't as disastrous as it would otherwise be. But what it does is create a Sword of Damocles situation, where WWE are facing devastation by the stroke of a pen. This Saudi deal will end one day... maybe not next year, or even in 5, but one day it will end. That's suddenly a billion annual dollars they're losing out on, in one go. Where on Earth are they going to replace that revenue? Certainly not in ticket sales or merchandise. Vince will probably be gone by the time this all kicks off, either selling up or departing this world. But it will happen eventually, & when it does, I really don't see how WWE in it's current form can survive it. They’re going to get another billion dollar deal from NBCU and Fox in 3 years and then 8 years from now, Vince will probably be retired or dead and then it’ll be somebody else’s problem. But they’ll survive. WWE is too big not to. Thinking WWE is going to just up and implode is asinine. It’s like thinking AEW is just going to close its doors anytime soon. It’s not going to happen. WWE may not fail financially anytime soon but there have been alot bigger companies that have fallen and it will take is the skeletons to come flooding out his closet that we don't yet know about even though we likely wont hear about those untill he passes and even then it would not stop one giant scandle which then floods into the rest of the family to bring down the empire.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2021 14:21:51 GMT -5
But if all of his bad decisions continue to drive his audience away and those TV deals go away he is sunk. This is what people seem to forget when they talk about how much money WWE is making. It's not generating income through traditional revenue streams like ticket sales or merch, but being gifted it by TV companies & a Saudi prince. Now, on the one hand it has been a good thing, as lack of audiences due to disinterest or the pandemic isn't as disastrous as it would otherwise be. But what it does is create a Sword of Damocles situation, where WWE are facing devastation by the stroke of a pen. This Saudi deal will end one day... maybe not next year, or even in 5, but one day it will end. That's suddenly a billion annual dollars they're losing out on, in one go. Where on Earth are they going to replace that revenue? Certainly not in ticket sales or merchandise. Vince will probably be gone by the time this all kicks off, either selling up or departing this world. But it will happen eventually, & when it does, I really don't see how WWE in it's current form can survive it. Wrestling promotions have always had the "live for the moment" problem. They never bothered to focus on where they will be next year, five years from now, ten years from now because they fall into the trappings of assumption. They assume that the money will always be there, and as a result, there's no need to think about long-term strategy. That's why when they panic, they almost always go for the quick and easy fix as they want to solve the problem immediately. But... you didn't get where you are overnight. This was a gradual process. And you can't rectify the slow decay with an instant solution.
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thehottag
Don Corleone
We're here for one reason only: fame, fortune, & the World Wrestling Federation Tag Team Champions!
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Post by thehottag on Dec 30, 2021 14:26:24 GMT -5
WWE is too big not to. Thinking WWE is going to just up and implode is asinine. It’s like thinking AEW is just going to close its doors anytime soon. It’s not going to happen. Just like General Motors were too big to fail, or Enron, or Chrysler, or Lehman Brothers. Or, you know, WCW. The way WWE is running it's business should be setting off red flags like a toddler playing Minesweeper. Execs are selling off stock, TV ratings are at an all time low, house shows tours are being stopped, there are personnel layoffs in the hundreds due to budget cuts... these are not the actions of a healthy company. WWE is in trouble not financially, but because their current business model is unsustainable. And the notion that 'Vince will have sold/left before the ships sinks' isn't the great comfort you might think.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 30, 2021 14:38:40 GMT -5
WWE is too big not to. Thinking WWE is going to just up and implode is asinine. It’s like thinking AEW is just going to close its doors anytime soon. It’s not going to happen. Just like General Motors were too big to fail, or Enron, or Chrysler, or Lehman Brothers. Or, you know, WCW. The way WWE is running it's business should be setting off red flags like a toddler playing Minesweeper. Execs are selling off stock, TV ratings are at an all time low, house shows tours are being stopped, there are personnel layoffs in the hundreds due to budget cuts... these are not the actions of a healthy company. WWE is in trouble not financially, but because their current business model is unsustainable. And the notion that 'Vince will have sold/left before the ships sinks' isn't the great comfort you might think. They'll be fine financially so long as the cable bubble doesn't burst. It will at some point; it'll be incumbent on them (and AEW, as well) to be ready for that day. Maybe the new ratings system, the one that takes online engagement into consideration more, will end up benefiting them, but no way to know that yet. All things considered, though, I still think Vince wants the company primed to be sold, period. Whether that happens in his lifetime or after it also remains to be seen, but the way it's being structured right now feels like it's to arrange for the highest possible bidding price via reducing costs.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 30, 2021 16:12:23 GMT -5
G shit to straight up tell the biggest company “I’m good, actually” and then just dip.
Don’t matter the brand or letters, I’ll say it every time. These companies ain’t shit, lololol. Watch yo own neck cause lord knows they don’t even kinda give a f***.
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Post by CeilingFan on Dec 30, 2021 16:15:42 GMT -5
G shit to straight up tell the biggest company “I’m good, actually” and then just dip. Don’t matter the brand or letters, I’ll say it every time. These companies ain’t shit, lololol. Watch yo own neck cause lord knows they don’t even kinda give a f***. Especially the companies that won't allow employees to form a Union.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
Crow T. Robot
Black Lives Matter
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Dec 30, 2021 17:02:31 GMT -5
Just like General Motors were too big to fail, or Enron, or Chrysler, or Lehman Brothers. Or, you know, WCW. The way WWE is running it's business should be setting off red flags like a toddler playing Minesweeper. Execs are selling off stock, TV ratings are at an all time low, house shows tours are being stopped, there are personnel layoffs in the hundreds due to budget cuts... these are not the actions of a healthy company. WWE is in trouble not financially, but because their current business model is unsustainable. And the notion that 'Vince will have sold/left before the ships sinks' isn't the great comfort you might think. They'll be fine financially so long as the cable bubble doesn't burst. It will at some point; it'll be incumbent on them (and AEW, as well) to be ready for that day. Maybe the new ratings system, the one that takes online engagement into consideration more, will end up benefiting them, but no way to know that yet.
All things considered, though, I still think Vince wants the company primed to be sold, period. Whether that happens in his lifetime or after it also remains to be seen, but the way it's being structured right now feels like it's to arrange for the highest possible bidding price via reducing costs. While I'm on the Paid Programming side, and we don't take ratings into the equation, I can tell you on the spot and unwired side of advertising, there's no big freak out about a change, it's not even a discussion point. Granted that's solely on the broadcast channels, but FOX is their priority partner.
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