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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2022 18:30:18 GMT -5
I have said this that WWE pretty much put themselves in a staight up f***ed situation with their female talent.
On one hand their main roster womens divisions are so thin now and the womens tag is non exsistent in that they will have no choice but to have to call up some NXT women.
But the problem is those women are needed in NXT or else it will be nothing but lash legends down there wrestling each other with no veteran women help them progress and grow as talents.
And with Toni leaving and firing like of Ember Moon they have only kept thinning the herd and making the situation worse.
And Dakota mighht be on her way out the way she has been talking about wanting to stream on twitch again so that makes a growing situation of depth even worse.
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john84
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Post by john84 on Jan 2, 2022 18:38:23 GMT -5
Yep, they're basically repeating the same mistake that they made with Bianca's title reign last year. Where she is booked very strong, but she doesn't have much in the way of challengers. Last year, she only had Bayley, and once Bayley went down with injury and after steamrolling through Carmella several times over she was left with no threats until Sasha Banks returned. Right now once, Bianca gets past Becky Lynch, who does she have left: Queen Zelina? Carmella? There's very little in terms of credible threats. Same also applies to Smackdown. They really need to do her vs. Asuka when Asuka returns. Bianca throwing Alexa around could be fun as well, but the problem with that is I prefer Alexa as a face and I don't think Bianca should be turning heel. Bianca v Asuka will be awesome to watch.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Jan 2, 2022 18:54:13 GMT -5
Back during the AE, yeah Austin was THE top star. But at various points you also had Rock, Mick Foley, Undertaker, Kane, Triple H, Kurt Angle, etc all as believable challengers to Austin. And it made things fun.
These days, there is such an enormous gap between who WWE position as real “stars” and everyone else that it makes the shows way too top heavy and thus boring.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 2, 2022 20:09:17 GMT -5
Feels like people are talking past each other here.
Bianca is not getting a "backlash" right now; she's talented, over, and should probably be built up to beat Becky at Wrestlemania. It's a good thing if she's booked as a top level talent, since WWE's women's division is in desperate need of more main event women; things like Bayley's injury and Becky's time away highlighted how little they can afford to lose even one or two top names at any given time. Booking someone like an ace can be very good for business; it's good to have firmly established names at the top of a division.
However, the concern here shouldn't be about Bianca herself, but WWE's overall booking and how they've been handling their women's division for a very, very long time now, mainly the fact that there's nowhere near enough full time names in the division to have really well defined roster levels (main event, midcard, enhancement, etc.). The end result is kind of inevitable: the women who do get to the top level end up burning through the same slate of challengers. This wouldn't be the end of the world if the bulk of the division was at least seen as legitimate contenders, but again, the booking and roster choices have created a perception that there's a handful of "legit" contending women, and then a bunch of women fans shouldn't take seriously as challengers (credit where it's due, it sounds like they were trying to rectify at least one case of that with their booking of the Morgan/Lynch match last night).
So no, it's not that fans are turning on Bianca or that she shouldn't get a main event push, or that booking someone to be a clear main eventer is inherently bad, it's that the current context of WWE's women's division, where the sheer number of available wrestlers is perilously low and there's very little midcard between the handful of main eventers and those who aren't really taken seriously (feels like you've basically got Rhea and Asuka as the only ones who can feel like real threats to the Horsewomen and Bianca), is way too likely to create a scenario where some fans will be all "Oh, I'm sick of Bianca as champ, she just beats everyone, only a few women ever really get pushed in WWE!" when the problem isn't her (nor is it currently the Horsewomen), it's the lack of depth in the women's roster and the office's clear lack of interest in really doing anything with it.
So yeah, there's two ways to avoid this while still giving Bianca a really strong push, so either -Keep the division relatively small but have most of the women in it feel like they're capable of being champions. This could unfortunately lead to some 50/50 booking, but with a small division that can be played off as "these are the best of the best, good luck having a long winning streak here!"...which would make a long winning streak feel all the more important. Think of it as a sort of slightly larger version of Smackdown Six era booking, I guess. OR! -Greatly expand the main roster divisions, even if it means allowing some of the lower card women to get their reps in on Main Event or other smaller shows. Doing this would allow there to be more clearly defined levels within the division, more options for women who could be used a bit more as enhancement instead of feeding established women to the top tier wrestlers, and avoid burnout and overdoing of certain matchups and feuds, which could help a title run feel fresher longer.
Not doing anything and maintaining the current status quo isn't going to ruin Bianca or anything, but it does risk keeping up this trend of "so and so wins the belt, then very little of note happens because there's so few people to do anything fresh or interesting with."
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 2, 2022 20:14:48 GMT -5
The roster is too small but between those I named, and any NXT callups, new signings, and returns there’s plenty to get through the year until the draft. With those you named no, its not enough with a tag division still gutted, with the nxt call ups yes it might be enough for singles, but not including a tag team, and no I don't want to argue with you no the tag division again b/c I won't agree with you We’re specifically talking about Bianca having worthy challengers here which she most definitely would. The tag division is a separate issue and yes they’ve made it way harder than it has to be for that division by cutting half their talent in the last year.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 2, 2022 20:16:19 GMT -5
Also the best way to solve the thin main rosters is just call up all of the NXT women that are ready or near-ready. NXT is a developmental now, they don’t need Shirai, Dakota Kai, etc down there right now.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Jan 2, 2022 20:16:35 GMT -5
There’s no one to challenge her right now who would not require significant buildup first.
And to be clear, we’d be having this same conversation if anyone was booked that way. Heck we already are with Roman, Becky, Charlotte, etc.
It is not specific to Bianca.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 2, 2022 20:20:37 GMT -5
There’s no one to challenge her right now who would not require significant buildup first. Well she won’t be winning the title until April. Ripley and Asuka are two ready made, big-time feuds (plus any gimmick rematches with Becky). That right there is 4-5 months.
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Post by eJm on Jan 2, 2022 20:21:32 GMT -5
Also the best way to solve the thin main rosters is just call up all of the NXT women that are ready or near-ready. NXT is a developmental now, they don’t need Shirai, Dakota Kai, etc down there right now. I’d argue they do need people like that down there to help transition the next generation and help them get the confidence. Rookies facing rookies on live TV isn’t going to help anyone.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 2, 2022 20:22:15 GMT -5
Also the best way to solve the thin main rosters is just call up all of the NXT women that are ready or near-ready. NXT is a developmental now, they don’t need Shirai, Dakota Kai, etc down there right now. I’d argue they do need people like that down there to help transition the next generation and help them get the confidence. Rookies facing rookies on live TV isn’t going to help anyone. They can leave decent veterans down there but big-time stars or amazing in-ring workers like Shirai and Kai are not necessary at all. Leave 2 or 3 vets down there to work with the newer women but the rest should be brought up.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2022 20:22:54 GMT -5
There’s no one to challenge her right now who would not require significant buildup first. And their unwillingness to do anything about that plus the depth is the crux of the issue we are trying to point out. What happens next with Liv will be very telling and keep trying to build on what they started or is it just back to her role as pivotal job girl. My guess is they drop her into a feud with Duodrop.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Jan 2, 2022 20:24:37 GMT -5
There’s no one to challenge her right now who would not require significant buildup first. Well she won’t be winning the title until April. Ripley and Asuka are two ready made, big-time feuds (plus any gimmick rematches with Becky). That right there is 4-5 months. Oh they COULD. But the last few years have shown us that the chances that they WILL are not good.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 2, 2022 20:24:58 GMT -5
There’s no one to challenge her right now who would not require significant buildup first. And their unwillingness to do anything about that plus the depth is the crux of the issue we are trying to point out. What happens next with Liv will be very telling and keep trying to build on what they started or is it just back to her role as pivotal job girl. My guess is they drop her into a feud with Duodrop. I think Doudrop would be a great feud for Liv. Let Doudrop start building up some momentum as well to be a title challenger later in the year.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 2, 2022 20:26:03 GMT -5
Well she won’t be winning the title until April. Ripley and Asuka are two ready made, big-time feuds (plus any gimmick rematches with Becky). That right there is 4-5 months. Oh they COULD. But the last few years have shown us that the chances that they WILL are not good. Neither of those require significant buildup. Ripley and Asuka are one beat down segment of Bianca away from legit and interesting title contender.
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Post by eJm on Jan 2, 2022 20:26:08 GMT -5
I’d argue they do need people like that down there to help transition the next generation and help them get the confidence. Rookies facing rookies on live TV isn’t going to help anyone. They can leave decent veterans down there but big-time stars or amazing in-ring workers like Shirai and Kai are not necessary at all. Leave 2 or 3 vets down there to work with the newer women but the rest should be brought up. But then you also need those big time names to still get people to watch the NXT TV show, this is the issue they have right now. I’m not saying taking off Io will tank the show further but when you’ve already dropped the viewership you have, you want to keep as many as you do. Like, if NXT was back on the Network and they have the time to really develop people, go for it, absolutely. But NXT is a TV show first and developmental second and you still need those names to make the TV show part succeed
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 2, 2022 20:28:35 GMT -5
They can leave decent veterans down there but big-time stars or amazing in-ring workers like Shirai and Kai are not necessary at all. Leave 2 or 3 vets down there to work with the newer women but the rest should be brought up. But then you also need those big time names to still get people to watch the NXT TV show, this is the issue they have right now. I’m not saying taking off Io will tank the show further but when you’ve already dropped the viewership you have, you want to keep as many as you do. Like, if NXT was back on the Network and they have the time to really develop people, go for it, absolutely. But NXT is a TV show first and developmental second and you still need those names to make the TV show part succeed I think NXT will be making its way back to Peacock-only come the end of the USA deal. They don’t need Shirai and Kai there. The NXT deal is like $30 million or pretty much 1/10 of their other deals.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2022 20:29:37 GMT -5
I’d argue they do need people like that down there to help transition the next generation and help them get the confidence. Rookies facing rookies on live TV isn’t going to help anyone. They can leave decent veterans down there but big-time stars or amazing in-ring workers like Shirai and Kai are not necessary at all. Leave 2 or 3 vets down there to work with the newer women but the rest should be brought up. And exactly who are your vets you are leaving down there? Because all the women like Dakota , Raquel , Io should have already been called up. And that leaves....Mandy? not exactly the in ring general for the rookies to learn from that then leaves KLR and having only 1 goes back to what I said about the problem WWE has put themselves in. The women people say should be called up well should be but then that leaves the lash legends of the world with no one to learn from and the rookies just wrestle each other and this is on national tv and not the protective bubble of the network where only a handful of eyes will be on them and not anywhere near the ammount of pressure on them now. Alot of people have said and I argee the way to solve this is call up all the top tier women and then send NXT back to being a developmental off of tv.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 2, 2022 20:32:09 GMT -5
They can leave decent veterans down there but big-time stars or amazing in-ring workers like Shirai and Kai are not necessary at all. Leave 2 or 3 vets down there to work with the newer women but the rest should be brought up. And exactly who are your vets you are leaving down there? Because all the women like Dakota , Raquel , Io should have already been called up. And that leaves....Mandy? not exactly the in ring general for the rookies to learn from that then leaves KLR and having only 1 goes back to what I said about the problem WWE has put themselves in. The women people say should be called up well should be but then that leaves the lash legends of the world with no one to learn from and the rookies just wrestle each other and this is on national tv and not the protective bubble of the network where only a handful of eyes will be on them and not anywhere near the ammount of pressure on them now. Alot of people have said and I argee the way to solve this is call up all the top tier women and then send NXT back to being a developmental off of tv. Kay Lee Ray, Mandy for a little bit longer, Sarray, Gigi has been wrestling awhile, and bring in someone else from NXT UK.
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Post by eJm on Jan 2, 2022 20:35:07 GMT -5
But then you also need those big time names to still get people to watch the NXT TV show, this is the issue they have right now. I’m not saying taking off Io will tank the show further but when you’ve already dropped the viewership you have, you want to keep as many as you do. Like, if NXT was back on the Network and they have the time to really develop people, go for it, absolutely. But NXT is a TV show first and developmental second and you still need those names to make the TV show part succeed I think NXT will be making its way back to Peacock-only come the end of the USA deal. They don’t need Shirai and Kai there. The NXT deal is like $30 million or pretty much 1/10 of their other deals. They could but they could also keep it there as a cheap bit of programming. We really don’t know right now and it honestly could go more either way than you think. What we do know is that it’s still on TV and they need to keep people around who can do something.
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06vwgti
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Post by 06vwgti on Jan 2, 2022 20:51:12 GMT -5
With those you named no, its not enough with a tag division still gutted, with the nxt call ups yes it might be enough for singles, but not including a tag team, and no I don't want to argue with you no the tag division again b/c I won't agree with you We’re specifically talking about Bianca having worthy challengers here which she most definitely would. The tag division is a separate issue and yes they’ve made it way harder than it has to be for that division by cutting half their talent in the last year. Actually no it isnt a separate issue, I know what we are talking about, so stop the usual condescending post. My point was, both the singles division and the tag division is strained as it is with a lack of talent. And even with the names you mentnion coming back, is that even enough for BOTH raw and smackdown? Like others mentioned both are thin as it is. At this point they are better off combining both rosters which solves the depth issue and allows breathing room for multiple feuds, etc. But even with a large roster, the WWE couldn't even manage talent correctly...
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