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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 21:21:44 GMT -5
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Man, I'm standing by my statement because I'm not seeing where she's good without "help" especially when the example you provided is a match with the one woman who trained her to the point where WWE let it slide because she knows her that well. That just not the same as "hey here's a match she called out in the ring with a Nia Jax." If that's good enough for you to say "yeah this proves she's great" then think that, I just can't because it's pretty clear she isn't when even directly after that she had a rehearsed match with Sasha and even that WM with Becky and Charlotte was rehearsed.
It's not really about "hey I'm right nananana boo boo" and if you wanna think it is we've really got nothing to talk about. You're just not posting good examples to prove your point.
1- we don’t even know what you’re saying is accurate. How do you know every single other match she had on house shows, TV and PPV were rehearsed? 2- how do we know the extent she rehearsed versus what the other talent rehearse? Many wrestlers go over spots in the ring in the days and hours leading up to a big match. 3- even if she rehearsed every single match (or big match, which is something all time great Randy Savage did too), why does that negate her being considered great? If the in/ring product she is putting out is great why does it matter how she got there? 4- let’s remember that your original point I was responding to was that “she sucks” and “she’s trash.” Now it’s transformed into well she might’ve been good but she rehearsed every single match to the move. And then it transformed into well even the ones where she didn’t rehearse, she worked with someone that trained her. I'll say this since this has been going around in circles all day and at this point unless there's definite proof in the next response, I'm just going to end it here... 1 - Do you really need to see all of these pictures where it shows her rehearsing these matches before the shows including house shows? These matches I've posted in this thread about it have actual pictures of her rehearsing them and Ronda doesn't have much matches at all. There's actual articles about it, it's not just being said to say it because we've been mentioning this in other threads for years. Meltzer's talked about it for years.
2 - There's been multiple reports of her matches having extensive rehearsals. Again, this is not new. An example is her first WM match rehearsed numerous times months in advanced, the Nikki Bella match rehearsed weeks in advances, I think we might have even had threads about it here. Nobody else does this who's on the main roster full-time (or at least on Ronda's schedule) so if you think they do then I wonder where that comes from.
3 - Do you think Goldberg is great in the ring if his matches are rehearsed?
4 - It sounds like you're not even talking about if Ronda is "good in the ring or not" and instead you seem to think this is about some "argument" when no, it's not about that. If you wanna act that way then we've got nothing to talk about because that's childish. You didn't really get the context of my points so you're hungup on "well uh ok you didn't mean that you meant thi-" when really no, you're just more focused on who "won" when really this isn't even about that.
Savage did not rehearse all of his matches nor was he wrestling people who knew him well in sole instances like Nattie (who's Ronda's trainer) and yeah, you've brought him up numerous times but you can't compare Ronda and Savage because Savage has called matches in the ring before.
I'm just not convinced especially when nobody else in this company sans guest stars and some part-timers rehearse their stuff. This whole discussion started because you responded to my comments on Ronda's ringwork and now, when you can't prove she's great in the ring, you've got a problem with me saying she's trash and how her rehearsals shouldn't be a problem. At this point nah man, you really need to prove how she's great and thus far I haven't seen you do that yet so until then I'll keep saying it. Yes, if a wrestler has rehearsed matches that's not bad when they can prove they're great without it, when they can show they can call it in the ring, when they're not sloppy and when they're safe for their opponent, there's a multitude of different variables that prove how someone is great in the ring. If you want to break down Ronda's credentials then look at this.
Ronda's injured people in the ring.
Ronda's been sloppy.
Ronda's had numerous rehearsed matches to the point where the 2 matches that aren't rehearsed are the bad Rumble and the other's with the woman who trained her.
Ronda's matches have a lot of restholds in them so she can recover and her stamina issues were even brought up in that Sasha "rehearsal documentary" about her.
Ronda has a few moves she sticks to compared to a multitude of moves. Ronda's strikes are terrible and it has been brought up multiple of times in this thread.
At this point...nah if you tell me she's good in the ring I'm not believing it until you post a match where she doesn't have help because it sounds like "bells and whistles" is what shows someone is "great in the ring" to you and those "bells and whistles" is something I don't know of because she hasn't really proven it. That's sucking in the ring and being trash. Just because you can have a rehearsed match does not, I can't stress it enough, does not mean you are great in the ring no matter how much people like it.
I'm just not believing that crap because she really hasn't shown she's great in the ring. Cool moves doesn't show you're great in the ring nor does rehearsals because if that's the case then shit.
Goldberg's one of the greatest to do it in the ring in WWE today.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 22:46:54 GMT -5
I don't get how rehearsing a match is this big "gotcha" moment. Savage vs Steamboat was widely regarded as one of the greatest matches of the time and no one trashes it for being rehearsed. DDP was treated like crap by WWE and made fun of for rehearsing all of his matches but I doubt many people are going to act like he wasn't a part of some great matches in WCW. Hell the greatest women's match ever in my opinion was extremely rehearsed (Sasha/Bayley Ironwoman in NXT).
There are loads of reasons to think poorly of Rhonda, not sure why her rehearsing a bunch is the main point being made against her here. If anything, her rehearsing this much shows she's passionate and willing to put work in. Downplaying the good matches she's had because they're rehearsed opens such an odd can of worms. It's that kind of attitude that ruined DDP's run in WWE and it's good that most people have moved away from that line of thinking.
The idea that a wrestler cannot be good unless they're able to put a match on the fly is like saying a comedic actor is bad if they can't do improv. It takes a lot of skill to be a wrestler regardless of rehearsal or prep time. How is rehearsing a match "bells and whistles"?
Goldberg is clearly the greatest of all time lmao c'mon passive aggressive shit like that is so weak. Calm down dude you're discussing wrestling it's not that big of a deal and that type of comment is so unneeded.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 7, 2022 22:51:22 GMT -5
1- we don’t even know what you’re saying is accurate. How do you know every single other match she had on house shows, TV and PPV were rehearsed? 2- how do we know the extent she rehearsed versus what the other talent rehearse? Many wrestlers go over spots in the ring in the days and hours leading up to a big match. 3- even if she rehearsed every single match (or big match, which is something all time great Randy Savage did too), why does that negate her being considered great? If the in/ring product she is putting out is great why does it matter how she got there? 4- let’s remember that your original point I was responding to was that “she sucks” and “she’s trash.” Now it’s transformed into well she might’ve been good but she rehearsed every single match to the move. And then it transformed into well even the ones where she didn’t rehearse, she worked with someone that trained her. I'll say this since this has been going around in circles all day and at this point unless there's definite proof in the next response, I'm just going to end it here... 1 - Do you really need to see all of these pictures where it shows her rehearsing these matches before the shows including house shows? These matches I've posted in this thread about it have actual pictures of her rehearsing them and Ronda doesn't have much matches at all. There's actual articles about it, it's not just being said to say it because we've been mentioning this in other threads for years. Meltzer's talked about it for years.
2 - There's been multiple reports of her matches having extensive rehearsals. Again, this is not new. An example is her first WM match rehearsed numerous times months in advanced, the Nikki Bella match rehearsed weeks in advances, I think we might have even had threads about it here. Nobody else does this who's on the main roster full-time (or at least on Ronda's schedule) so if you think they do then I wonder where that comes from.
3 - Do you think Goldberg is great in the ring if his matches are rehearsed?
4 - It sounds like you're not even talking about if Ronda is "good in the ring or not" and instead you seem to think this is about some "argument" when no, it's not about that. If you wanna act that way then we've got nothing to talk about because that's childish. You didn't really get the context of my points so you're hungup on "well uh ok you didn't mean that you meant thi-" when really no, you're just more focused on who "won" when really this isn't even about that.
Savage did not rehearse all of his matches nor was he wrestling people who knew him well in sole instances like Nattie (who's Ronda's trainer) and yeah, you've brought him up numerous times but you can't compare Ronda and Savage because Savage has called matches in the ring before.
I'm just not convinced especially when nobody else in this company sans guest stars and some part-timers rehearse their stuff. This whole discussion started because you responded to my comments on Ronda's ringwork and now, when you can't prove she's great in the ring, you've got a problem with me saying she's trash and how her rehearsals shouldn't be a problem. At this point nah man, you really need to prove how she's great and thus far I haven't seen you do that yet so until then I'll keep saying it. Yes, if a wrestler has rehearsed matches that's not bad when they can prove they're great without it, when they can show they can call it in the ring, when they're not sloppy and when they're safe for their opponent, there's a multitude of different variables that prove how someone is great in the ring. If you want to break down Ronda's credentials then look at this.
Ronda's injured people in the ring.
Ronda's been sloppy.
Ronda's had numerous rehearsed matches to the point where the 2 matches that aren't rehearsed are the bad Rumble and the other's with the woman who trained her.
Ronda's matches have a lot of restholds in them so she can recover and her stamina issues were even brought up in that Sasha "rehearsal documentary" about her.
Ronda has a few moves she sticks to compared to a multitude of moves. Ronda's strikes are terrible and it has been brought up multiple of times in this thread.
At this point...nah if you tell me she's good in the ring I'm not believing it until you post a match where she doesn't have help because it sounds like "bells and whistles" is what shows someone is "great in the ring" to you and those "bells and whistles" is something I don't know of because she hasn't really proven it. That's sucking in the ring and being trash. Just because you can have a rehearsed match does not, I can't stress it enough, does not mean you are great in the ring no matter how much people like it.
I'm just not believing that crap because she really hasn't shown she's great in the ring. Cool moves doesn't show you're great in the ring nor does rehearsals because if that's the case then shit.
Goldberg's one of the greatest to do it in the ring in WWE today.
There’s so much in here to respond to I’ll have to get to it all when I have time. But what does Goldberg have to do with anything? He has some cool moves, and he every once in a while can have a good fun quick match (vs. Lesnar at Mania, vs. Lashley last year). But in general I wouldn’t consider his matches very good. Ronda had literally one year of professional wrestling, filled with great matches. It was probably one of the best ever “rookie” years any wrestler has ever had. Typically, you don’t even see a wrestler’s first year of matches. Even Kurt Angle had half a year’s worth of dark matches before they let him on TV. Even just going by Meltzer, 4.25 star debut match at Mania, 3.5 star against Nia Jax of all people, 3.25 star versus Bliss, 3.75 against Nikki, 4.25 against Charlotte, 3.75 against Nia, 3.75 against Sasha and then an underwhelming 3 stars in the Mania triple threat. Meltzer doesn’t usually rate TV matches but that Natalya match was rated 3.5 stars by Csonka.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 22:51:31 GMT -5
I don't get how rehearsing a match is this big "gotcha" moment. Savage vs Steamboat was widely regarded as one of the greatest matches of the time and no one trashes it for being rehearsed. DDP was treated like crap by WWE and made fun of for rehearsing all of his matches but I doubt many people are going to act like he wasn't a part of some great matches in WCW. Hell the greatest women's match ever in my opinion was extremely rehearsed (Sasha/Bayley Ironwoman in NXT). There are loads of reasons to think poorly of Rhonda, not sure why her rehearsing a bunch is the main point being made against her here. If anything, her rehearsing this much shows she's passionate and willing to put work in. Downplaying the good matches she's had because they're rehearsed opens such an odd can of worms. It's that kind of attitude that ruined DDP's run in WWE and it's good that most people have moved away from that line of thinking. The idea that a wrestler cannot be good unless they're able to put a match on the fly is like saying a comedic actor is bad if they can't do improv. It takes a lot of skill to be a wrestler regardless of rehearsal or prep time. How is rehearsing a match "bells and whistles"? Goldberg is clearly the greatest of all time lmao c'mon passive aggressive shit like that is so weak. Calm down dude you're discussing wrestling it's not that big of a deal and that type of comment is so unneeded. Damn you really had me for a bit. This was a great post lol.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 22:56:17 GMT -5
I don't get how rehearsing a match is this big "gotcha" moment. Savage vs Steamboat was widely regarded as one of the greatest matches of the time and no one trashes it for being rehearsed. DDP was treated like crap by WWE and made fun of for rehearsing all of his matches but I doubt many people are going to act like he wasn't a part of some great matches in WCW. Hell the greatest women's match ever in my opinion was extremely rehearsed (Sasha/Bayley Ironwoman in NXT). There are loads of reasons to think poorly of Rhonda, not sure why her rehearsing a bunch is the main point being made against her here. If anything, her rehearsing this much shows she's passionate and willing to put work in. Downplaying the good matches she's had because they're rehearsed opens such an odd can of worms. It's that kind of attitude that ruined DDP's run in WWE and it's good that most people have moved away from that line of thinking. The idea that a wrestler cannot be good unless they're able to put a match on the fly is like saying a comedic actor is bad if they can't do improv. It takes a lot of skill to be a wrestler regardless of rehearsal or prep time. How is rehearsing a match "bells and whistles"? Goldberg is clearly the greatest of all time lmao c'mon passive aggressive shit like that is so weak. Calm down dude you're discussing wrestling it's not that big of a deal and that type of comment is so unneeded. Damn you really had me for a bit. This was a great post lol. Sometimes you really go out of your way to egg people on and I don't know why. Not sure why your go-to is always to be shitty towards people like this. It's posts like this that rile people up and get threads locked. Even if you're not breaking any forum rules maybe take a step back and try being kinder sometimes. You'd be surprised how fresh the air is when you get off that high horse.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 7, 2022 22:56:17 GMT -5
I don't get how rehearsing a match is this big "gotcha" moment. Savage vs Steamboat was widely regarded as one of the greatest matches of the time and no one trashes it for being rehearsed. DDP was treated like crap by WWE and made fun of for rehearsing all of his matches but I doubt many people are going to act like he wasn't a part of some great matches in WCW. Hell the greatest women's match ever in my opinion was extremely rehearsed (Sasha/Bayley Ironwoman in NXT). There are loads of reasons to think poorly of Rhonda, not sure why her rehearsing a bunch is the main point being made against her here. If anything, her rehearsing this much shows she's passionate and willing to put work in. Downplaying the good matches she's had because they're rehearsed opens such an odd can of worms. It's that kind of attitude that ruined DDP's run in WWE and it's good that most people have moved away from that line of thinking. The idea that a wrestler cannot be good unless they're able to put a match on the fly is like saying a comedic actor is bad if they can't do improv. It takes a lot of skill to be a wrestler regardless of rehearsal or prep time. How is rehearsing a match "bells and whistles"? Goldberg is clearly the greatest of all time lmao c'mon passive aggressive shit like that is so weak. Calm down dude you're discussing wrestling it's not that big of a deal and that type of comment is so unneeded. Damn you really had me for a bit. This was a great post lol. He’s saying your Goldberg comparison was passive aggressive bs....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 22:58:01 GMT -5
There’s so much in here to respond to I’ll have to get to it all when I have time. But what does Goldberg have to do with anything? He has some cool moves, and he every once in a while can have a good fun quick match (vs. Lesnar at Mania, vs. Lashley last year). But in general I wouldn’t consider his matches very good. Ronda had literally one year of professional wrestling, filled with great matches. It was probably one of the best ever “rookie” years any wrestler has ever had. Typically, you don’t even see a wrestler’s first year of matches. Even Kurt Angle had half a year’s worth of dark matches before they let him on TV. Even just going by Meltzer, 4.25 star debut match at Mania, 3.5 star against Nia Jax of all people, 3.25 star versus Bliss, 3.75 against Nikki, 4.25 against Charlotte, 3.75 against Nia, 3.75 against Sasha and then an underwhelming 3 stars in the Mania triple threat. Sorry man but we've just got nothing else to discuss anymore. See ya in another thread. I'm outty 5000 as Carrera Lu would say.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 23:02:56 GMT -5
In fairness, I seriously don’t understand why the measure of whether or not someone is “good” in ring is whether their matches are scripted or called in the ring. Wrestling isn’t real. If the end product is entertaining and believable, what does it matter if the match was rehearsed move for move? Plus, none of us actually know whether or to what extent wrestlers actually go over their stuff. We’re not in the locker room.
I don’t even like Rousey much, and I’m not looking forward to her and Brock being “around” at the same time in the slightest, but she’s shown a professional wrestling acumen. The Boogeyman could have rehearsed his moves ad nauseam before matches, and the matches would still be bad, because he wasn’t a very good wrestler. If Ronda rehearses the matches and they are good, doesn’t that mean she’s a good wrestler?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 23:04:04 GMT -5
Damn you really had me for a bit. This was a great post lol. Sometimes you really go out of your way to egg people on and I don't know why. Not sure why your go-to is always to be shitty towards people like this. It's posts like this that rile people up and get threads locked. Even if you're not breaking any forum rules maybe take a step back and try being kinder sometimes. You'd be surprised how fresh the air is when you get off that high horse. ?
I wasn't even being negative towards you or saying anything offensive towards you so if you think that then it's false. I respected your opinion, I just have my POV. Regardless, I'm not responding to you anymore in this thread so if you got anymore issues hit me up via PM as I'm not responding to you anymore this thread.
Later.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 7, 2022 23:04:40 GMT -5
In fairness, I seriously don’t understand why the measure of whether or not someone is “good” in ring is whether their matches are scripted or called in the ring. Wrestling isn’t real. If the end product is entertaining and believable, what does it matter if the match was rehearsed move for move? Plus, none of us actually know whether or to what extent wrestlers actually go over their stuff. We’re not in the locker room. I don’t even like Rousey much, and I’m not looking forward to her and Brock being “around” at the same time in the slightest, but she’s shown a professional wrestling acumen. The Boogeyman could have rehearsed his moves ad nauseam before matches, and the matches would still be bad, because he wasn’t a very good wrestler. If Ronda rehearses the matches and they are good, doesn’t that mean she’s a good wrestler? It seems it’s only one poster who feels this way so I guess I should’ve just ignored him. He’s also half-trolling in the thread too, but whatever.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 23:11:39 GMT -5
If Ronda rehearses the matches and they are good, doesn’t that mean she’s a good wrestler? Eh, not really, because if that's the case then we need to be calling Nia a great wrestler too. Rousey and Nia had two good if not great matches, both rehearsed however. So going by this logic, Nia is a great wrestler. Mind you Nia and Ronda both have injured others multiple times, they've been called sloppy and etc in the past as well. In those rehearsed matches though, Nia was calling those spots out that they rehearsed but Nia did well in there. Nia was the one doing most of the work both matches.
Nia just has way less rehearsed matches than Ronda. Had Nia been having as many rehearsed matches chances are her opinion overall from a wrestler standpoint would be viewed different to the majority. She's not a good wrestler because, well, she hurts others, she's sloppy and such but mind you, people have said that about Ronda in the past too.
Those rehearsed matches can really hide how wrestlers are in the ring and with them it's very hard to determine how "good" someone is because if you attach that to everybody then their performance dramatically increase as we've seen with Nia's performance. If we say "well if (insert name) is good because of rehearsed matches" then yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh, calling Nia a "good wrestler" because she did amazing in rehearsed matches says something.
Nobody needs to be calling Nia a "good wrestler" at all though because she's just not a good wrestler.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 23:18:08 GMT -5
If Ronda rehearses the matches and they are good, doesn’t that mean she’s a good wrestler? Eh, not really, because if that's the case then we need to be calling Nia a great wrestler too. Rousey and Nia had two good if not great matches, both rehearsed however. So going by this logic, Nia is a great wrestler. Mind you Nia and Ronda both have injured others multiple times, they've been called sloppy and etc in the past as well. In those rehearsed matches though, Nia was calling those spots out that they rehearsed but Nia did well in there. Nia was the one doing most of the work both matches.
Nia just has way less rehearsed matches than Ronda. Had Nia been having as many rehearsed matches chances are her opinion overall from a wrestler standpoint would be viewed different to the majority. She's not a good wrestler because, well, she hurts others, she's sloppy and such but mind you, people have said that about Ronda in the past too.
Those rehearsed matches can really hide how wrestlers are in the ring. If we say "well if (insert name) is good because of rehearsed matches" then yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh, calling Nia a "good wrestler" because she did amazing in rehearsed matches says something.
Nobody needs to be calling Nia a "good wrestler" at all.
I admittedly haven’t followed WWE as closely as I once did for the past few years, but I’m not aware of Ronda having injured anyone in ring. Nia has, on more than one occasion. I think Nia is a talented wrestler, but she’s sloppy. That would be true whether she was injuring people in scripted matches, or in matches called in ring. And I think you’re underselling what it means to “call a match in ring.” Wrestling is performance art. I would be stunned to find out that even Bryan Danielson isn’t at least planning out parts of his matches beforehand.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 23:23:00 GMT -5
Eh, not really, because if that's the case then we need to be calling Nia a great wrestler too. Rousey and Nia had two good if not great matches, both rehearsed however. So going by this logic, Nia is a great wrestler. Mind you Nia and Ronda both have injured others multiple times, they've been called sloppy and etc in the past as well. In those rehearsed matches though, Nia was calling those spots out that they rehearsed but Nia did well in there. Nia was the one doing most of the work both matches.
Nia just has way less rehearsed matches than Ronda. Had Nia been having as many rehearsed matches chances are her opinion overall from a wrestler standpoint would be viewed different to the majority. She's not a good wrestler because, well, she hurts others, she's sloppy and such but mind you, people have said that about Ronda in the past too.
Those rehearsed matches can really hide how wrestlers are in the ring. If we say "well if (insert name) is good because of rehearsed matches" then yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh, calling Nia a "good wrestler" because she did amazing in rehearsed matches says something.
Nobody needs to be calling Nia a "good wrestler" at all.
I admittedly haven’t followed WWE as closely as I once did for the past few years, but I’m not aware of Ronda having injured anyone in ring. Nia has, on more than one occasion. I think Nia is a talented wrestler, but she’s sloppy. That would be true whether she was injuring people in scripted matches, or in matches called in ring. And I think you’re underselling what it means to “call a match in ring.” Wrestling is performance art. I would be stunned to find out that even Bryan Danielson isn’t at least planning out parts of his matches beforehand. Ronda gave Alexa 2 concussions which caused Alexa to sitout a great while.
Nah, yeah we're definitely disagreeing with Nia's skill level here. If you think Nia is a talented wrestler then yeah I just can't agree on that but I understand your POV. I think Nia's just bad in the ring. If I thought Nia was talented then I wouldn't be saying this stuff about Ronda and I'd be calling her amazing in the ring.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 23:34:00 GMT -5
I admittedly haven’t followed WWE as closely as I once did for the past few years, but I’m not aware of Ronda having injured anyone in ring. Nia has, on more than one occasion. I think Nia is a talented wrestler, but she’s sloppy. That would be true whether she was injuring people in scripted matches, or in matches called in ring. And I think you’re underselling what it means to “call a match in ring.” Wrestling is performance art. I would be stunned to find out that even Bryan Danielson isn’t at least planning out parts of his matches beforehand. Ronda gave Alexa 2 concussions which caused Alexa to sitout a great while.
Nah, yeah we're definitely disagreeing with Nia's skill level here. If you think Nia is a talented wrestler then yeah I just can't agree on that but I understand your POV. I think Nia's just bad in the ring. If I thought Nia was talented then I wouldn't be saying this stuff about Ronda and I'd be calling her amazing in the ring.
Right, but weren’t the concussions on pretty routine headlock takeovers? I mean, I don’t think Nia Jax was a wrestling savant or anything, but she was better than average. She was a bad wrestler because she constantly hurt people, though, not because her best matches were scripted. Just my opinion, though.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 23:41:09 GMT -5
Sometimes you really go out of your way to egg people on and I don't know why. Not sure why your go-to is always to be shitty towards people like this. It's posts like this that rile people up and get threads locked. Even if you're not breaking any forum rules maybe take a step back and try being kinder sometimes. You'd be surprised how fresh the air is when you get off that high horse. ? I wasn't even being negative towards you or saying anything offensive towards you so if you think that then it's false. I respected your opinion, I just have my POV. Regardless, I'm not responding to you anymore in this thread so if you got anymore issues hit me up via PM as I'm not responding to you anymore this thread.
Later. Dude you've already told me you don't care how I feel in the past so I really don't see a need to start talking to you via PM. I don't need that negativity in my life. I'm just trying to stop you from spreading that negativity further. You don't need to direct your negativity towards a person for them to feel it this is a public forum. Why don't you just not spread negativity or be offensive? I don't understand the need when discussing wrestling. You didn't respect my opinion at all you treated it like a joke which is what you have done in the past towards not only me but others as well. A lot of your posts just brush aside someone's opinion and show little respect towards them. You come across very abrasive and dismissive when you disagree with someone. Not sure how that Goldberg line is in any way respectful towards the person you were going back and forth with.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 23:45:49 GMT -5
Ronda gave Alexa 2 concussions which caused Alexa to sitout a great while.
Nah, yeah we're definitely disagreeing with Nia's skill level here. If you think Nia is a talented wrestler then yeah I just can't agree on that but I understand your POV. I think Nia's just bad in the ring. If I thought Nia was talented then I wouldn't be saying this stuff about Ronda and I'd be calling her amazing in the ring.
Right, but weren’t the concussions on pretty routine headlock takeovers? I mean, I don’t think Nia Jax was a wrestling savant or anything, but she was better than average. She was a bad wrestler because she constantly hurt people, though, not because her best matches were scripted. Just my opinion, though. One was for sure through a headlock but the other one I'm not sure. Nia was talking to Paige and others about it on a stream once and Nia was saying Alexa was actually getting injured every night against Ronda, not just those 2 concussions, just smaller stuff too, the big stuff were the concussions. Once I'd say it's passable but with 2 concussions and then apparently smaller stuff according to them, nah that's just bad if you ask me. Nia I think should have had all of her matches scripted personally because her best matches were in scripted matches. She got better over time but given how she was booked (psychology-wise) I wouldn't say that she's a good wrestler, if you disagree then hey it's your own opinion and I'm not going to fight you on it.
At the end of the day that's all this is, just opinions. If anyone disagrees then hey it's our own POV.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 7, 2022 23:55:20 GMT -5
Both Bliss concussions were on innocuous-looking headlock takeovers. Wasn’t anything botched or sloppy from what I remember seeing.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Feb 8, 2022 0:06:04 GMT -5
In fairness, I seriously don’t understand why the measure of whether or not someone is “good” in ring is whether their matches are scripted or called in the ring. Wrestling isn’t real. If the end product is entertaining and believable, what does it matter if the match was rehearsed move for move? Plus, none of us actually know whether or to what extent wrestlers actually go over their stuff. We’re not in the locker room. I don’t even like Rousey much, and I’m not looking forward to her and Brock being “around” at the same time in the slightest, but she’s shown a professional wrestling acumen. The Boogeyman could have rehearsed his moves ad nauseam before matches, and the matches would still be bad, because he wasn’t a very good wrestler. If Ronda rehearses the matches and they are good, doesn’t that mean she’s a good wrestler? For me at least, it's matter of the box WWE is keeping her in, and the way they're reportedly now approaching NXT. Rehearsal isn't inherently a problem, but it's the attitude and approach that they should spoonfeed and coach everybody into very specifically hitting only what they're told to in the spot they're told to do it without teaching them. I remember a Kevin Nash shoot interview where he was talking about guys in WCW who would get handheld by some of the veterans with planned matches but never really told them why or how to build that up themselves, which led to those guys becoming dependent on the shot-callers; they weren't learning, they were just being guided step by step into shit and not really given the education they needed to take away from it. They want Ronda, and now their trainees, to be so dependent on them and so incapable of building things up themselves that they box people in to these planned matches with nothing dynamic and no ability to diverge from anything, and we've seen before how utterly destructive not teaching people to adapt and learn is with stuff like Charlotte Flair in that cursed ladder match. Even if it's not the explicit mark of whether you're good or not, it's an important skill that people who learn how to wrestle are taught and urged to develop, and the problem with them mostly keeping Ronda boxed in and fed everything like choreography is that it's keeping her from fully learning and growing as a wrestler. She can't develop her ring psychology if they tell her what to do and she's unable to go out there and explore it anymore than telling dictating somebody's essay for them word by word doesn't teach them to truly understand the topic they're writing words down about. Ronda being given some rehearsed matches early on while she's getting the hang of it? Makes total sense. Ronda now still needing that? That's a gaping flaw in how they're training her, and it's a bad sign in my eyes. Frankly, it even has echoes to the aforementioned horrible striking I talked about and how nobody was willing to be honest with her about it and tell her to dump her loser idiot coach for a real striking coach. There's this entire skillset she's not being allowed to properly develop and it's not helping her at all in growing.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Feb 8, 2022 0:08:35 GMT -5
Both Bliss concussions were on innocuous-looking headlock takeovers. Wasn’t anything botched or sloppy from what I remember seeing. I mean if you are getting concussions from a headlock, something is severely botched or sloppy. You would need to basically SLAM your arms around her head full strenght or the opposite,drop then then on their head without applying any safety Ronda had good matches ,and I dont care about the part of being reharsed, but she was definitely too rough.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 8, 2022 0:20:15 GMT -5
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