fw91
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Post by fw91 on Feb 10, 2022 11:09:48 GMT -5
I cant wait till Lee proves all of the doubters wrong I don’t think anyone doubted his potential, but idk the roster over there is getting bloated. It’s a good problem to have i suppose, but someone is bound to get a raw deal.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Feb 10, 2022 11:24:49 GMT -5
I cant wait till Lee proves all of the doubters wrong I don’t think anyone doubted his potential, but idk the roster over there is getting bloated. It’s a good problem to have i suppose, but someone is bound to get a raw deal. Yeah, but likely not someone like Keith Lee if he can prove he can still go in a longer actual match. It'll be the originals who've never been pushed or the mid/low carders who WWE cut that AEW may pick up, but will likely only use them in the same way. I give it 6 months until Rampage is 2 hours given the top flight names they have now.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 11:41:22 GMT -5
I agree that Keith Lee was pretty boring in WWE. He was given an incredibly stupid WWE nickname (yeah, yeah, yeah, I know it was a callback to Bearcat Wright, whatever, it's still stupid that WWE can't help but try and change already established wrestlers' identities), an unflattering singlet, terrible WWE-scripted promos when he actually got to talk, and got forced to wrestle the plodding WWE "big man" style, when his primary appeal is that he does acrobatic feats in the ring that no guy his size has any business even attempting.
He's going to be awesome in AEW. Honestly, you all are right...WWE is in way more dire need of upper card guys than AEW right now. I wish Keith Lee would have panned out in WWE. But, instead, as we've seen so many times before, WWE's obsessive micromanaging nuked his potential. I can't wait for this AEW run. Dude looked MOTIVATED last night. He's going to bring it and show WWE how badly they screwed this up.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Feb 10, 2022 11:47:59 GMT -5
He's a great athlete and has good charisma but I agree with some folks saying that he just didn't have the top "Superstar" presence about him. Reminds me a lot of what Stone Cold and Becky just talked about on the latest Smoking Skull Sessions where John Cena talked to Becky early on before becoming the Man character. He asked her "who are you?" what makes you stand out. I think that's what Lee was missing, a gimmick or character that made him special. The only thing that makes him stand out is his appearance but he doesn't have a character. That doesn't really work in WWE, it could work out for him better in AEW where its just more wrestling focused. For the record I prefer adorkable Becky 100000x more then The Man.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Feb 10, 2022 11:50:17 GMT -5
If you didn't see Keith Lee in NXT, at the Royal Rumble see his star potential, and immediately not realize that Vince and WWE would ruin him, I'm not sure you've been watching the past 5-10 years. I don't even watch WWE, and I knew he was going to ruin him, and not just hating on WWE, but in what Vince looks for kind of way.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Feb 10, 2022 11:52:08 GMT -5
I don’t think anyone doubted his potential, but idk the roster over there is getting bloated. It’s a good problem to have i suppose, but someone is bound to get a raw deal. Yeah, but likely not someone like Keith Lee if he can prove he can still go in a longer actual match. It'll be the originals who've never been pushed or the mid/low carders who WWE cut that AEW may pick up, but will likely only use them in the same way. I give it 6 months until Rampage is 2 hours given the top flight names they have now. Brand split?
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Feb 10, 2022 12:00:17 GMT -5
I never watched nxt, but in that one match on Dynamite and I just couldn't understand why they would let him go. He's a star and he's got presence of a star.
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Post by Bo Rida on Feb 10, 2022 12:03:16 GMT -5
Keith Lee was never going to succeed in WWE, he doesn't fit Vince's body standard. Eh, maybe to be THE guy as this thread suggests but I don't think it would have stopped him being a success if everything else went right. Unfortunately he's the type that needs to appear a big deal fairly quick, if he started in a similar way to Kevin Owens (another guy that doesn't fit the standard) it could have worked out for him but bad booking and life got in the way. Aew have started presenting him to his strengths so hopefully that will continue but weirdly I think his potential ceiling was higher in WWE as I think he could have been wwe or universal champion but won't be in aew.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 12:10:46 GMT -5
Yeah, but likely not someone like Keith Lee if he can prove he can still go in a longer actual match. It'll be the originals who've never been pushed or the mid/low carders who WWE cut that AEW may pick up, but will likely only use them in the same way. I give it 6 months until Rampage is 2 hours given the top flight names they have now. Brand split? I can see why some would think that might benefit AEW, but God I hope they don't go that route. I hate the brand split, and it always ends up with the featured guys just appearing on both brands anyway, except now there are two "world titles" that don't matter as much as one clear top title does.
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Nosnorb
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Post by Nosnorb on Feb 10, 2022 12:17:49 GMT -5
I can see why some would think that might benefit AEW, but God I hope they don't go that route. I hate the brand split, and it always ends up with the featured guys just appearing on both brands anyway, except now there are two "world titles" that don't matter as much as one clear top title does. One title always ends up elevated over the other, and right now the Universal Title is above the WWE one. Guess we will see which is the more important one when Roman gets cashed in on later this year.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Feb 10, 2022 15:03:08 GMT -5
Have. it is Should... have or Should've. not Should Of. There's a laundry list of what-ifs in WWE. Some of it is unavoidable. You don't run the biggest wrestling company in the world and not miss out on certain people. Not everyone can be utilized to the best of their ability. Not every time you bring down your pickax are you going to strike gold. That sure as shit doesn't mean they've been operating things in a really sloppy fashion, though. Keith would have been great to dethrone Roman, given their encounter at Survivor Series got a lot of intrigue from fans who otherwise hardly knew the guy. Any one wants to tell me otherwise, and I'd tell them they're out of their mind. Fans were interested. Vince stomped that to death and wiped his feet off on the carpet after, which is ironic considering the only reason they even had him in that role in the match was Vince's OWN interest, which hugely improved his lot in NXT soon after. A testament to Vince's mercurial interests, surely. It isn't just him, granted. Cesaro, among others, also would have been good to at least be a road block to Roman, giving him a Luger vs Hogan-like win that would be short-lived. That'd have probably helped keep Roman fresh, but nope, they didn't want that, either. Instead, we have a reign that's long for the sake of length, and even with Roman being one of the most interesting champions that they've had in years, he peaked long ago, and it's getting boring again. It's disappointing. PRetty much this... though I'd change "it's getting boring" to has been boring for almost a year since nothing changes. Owens, Finn, Cesaro... all 3 of them the crowd was 100% behind beating Roman even if it wasn't the end game it at least fully cements them as main eventers even if Roman beats them again later. Instead Owens pretty much needed to be turned heel because they made him look like the biggest loser of all time. Finn had to be moved to an entirely different show after they killed off the new wrinkle to his gimmick on the same show it debuted and made him look like an idiot for just falling off the turnbuckle. (and really hasn't been seen since) and Cesaro... they made sure people knew was a loser as they had Roman, Seth, and Jey beat the hell out of him after the match...
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Post by noobeast on Feb 10, 2022 16:52:07 GMT -5
He's a great athlete and has good charisma but I agree with some folks saying that he just didn't have the top "Superstar" presence about him. Reminds me a lot of what Stone Cold and Becky just talked about on the latest Smoking Skull Sessions where John Cena talked to Becky early on before becoming the Man character. He asked her "who are you?" what makes you stand out. I think that's what Lee was missing, a gimmick or character that made him special. The only thing that makes him stand out is his appearance but he doesn't have a character. That doesn't really work in WWE, it could work out for him better in AEW where its just more wrestling focused. I don't know that I have ever disagreed more with something I've seen posted here. Is he some over the top goof gimmick boi like WWE drools over (and fails with constantly), but he doesn't need to be. He oozes charisma by simply existing. And if "350 pound man who can go move for move and match speed with f***ING RICOCHET" doesn't scream special to you, I'd like to know what exactly does...
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Post by joeiscool on Feb 10, 2022 17:29:08 GMT -5
He's a great athlete and has good charisma but I agree with some folks saying that he just didn't have the top "Superstar" presence about him. Reminds me a lot of what Stone Cold and Becky just talked about on the latest Smoking Skull Sessions where John Cena talked to Becky early on before becoming the Man character. He asked her "who are you?" what makes you stand out. I think that's what Lee was missing, a gimmick or character that made him special. The only thing that makes him stand out is his appearance but he doesn't have a character. That doesn't really work in WWE, it could work out for him better in AEW where its just more wrestling focused. "350 pound man who can go move for move and match speed with f***ING RICOCHET" doesn't scream special to you, I'd like to know what exactly does... I mean that probably doesn't help. 350 pound man flipping like a 205 pounder works if they are wrestling a few times a month, but I'm guessing they are thinking about it from a wear and tare aspect, doing that 300 days is probably going to speed up injuries.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 18:14:53 GMT -5
A lot of people could have and it would have made sense tbh, Keith Lee included.
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mattyy
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Post by mattyy on Feb 10, 2022 18:33:10 GMT -5
Should've or Should Have
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Post by noobeast on Feb 10, 2022 22:44:06 GMT -5
"350 pound man who can go move for move and match speed with f***ING RICOCHET" doesn't scream special to you, I'd like to know what exactly does... I mean that probably doesn't help. 350 pound man flipping like a 205 pounder works if they are wrestling a few times a month, but I'm guessing they are thinking about it from a wear and tare aspect, doing that 300 days is probably going to speed up injuries. It's almost like wrestling 300 days a year is bad for anyone and shouldn't happen... No, it is the extremely talented man who is the problem.
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Post by joeiscool on Feb 10, 2022 23:28:39 GMT -5
I mean that probably doesn't help. 350 pound man flipping like a 205 pounder works if they are wrestling a few times a month, but I'm guessing they are thinking about it from a wear and tare aspect, doing that 300 days is probably going to speed up injuries. It's almost like wrestling 300 days a year is bad for anyone and shouldn't happen... No, it is the extremely talented man who is the problem. Maybe... I'm just talking from a business perspective. Right now WWE has a model and Keith Lee's style didn't really fit it. Could they have made exceptions for him ? Of course.. Should they have? Idk... I just can see how a company with a talent roster as deep and diverse as WWE could pass on someone like Keith Lee..
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Post by Starshine on Feb 11, 2022 0:12:06 GMT -5
It's almost like wrestling 300 days a year is bad for anyone and shouldn't happen... No, it is the extremely talented man who is the problem. Maybe... I'm just talking from a business perspective. Right now WWE has a model and Keith Lee's style didn't really fit it. Could they have made exceptions for him ? Of course.. Should they have? Idk...I just can see how a company with a talent roster as deep and diverse as WWE could pass on someone like Keith Lee.. Their business model is built on generic mass content creation, they could make the shows interesting and engaging and it wouldn't change their bottom line. There's no debate on what they should do because there's no measure of booking success anymore, everything is already paid for in the immediate future.
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Post by joeiscool on Feb 11, 2022 1:01:28 GMT -5
Maybe... I'm just talking from a business perspective. Right now WWE has a model and Keith Lee's style didn't really fit it. Could they have made exceptions for him ? Of course.. Should they have? Idk...I just can see how a company with a talent roster as deep and diverse as WWE could pass on someone like Keith Lee.. Their business model is built on generic mass content creation, they could make the shows interesting and engaging and it wouldn't change their bottom line. There's no debate on what they should do because there's no measure of booking success anymore, everything is already paid for in the immediate future. Oh yeah from that stand point WWE doesn't need Keith Lee. Keith Lee doesn't need WWE either. I just find it odd so many people can't see why he didn't work out.
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Post by Dub H on Feb 11, 2022 1:37:04 GMT -5
I feel like the issue Vince had with keith was never the body.
But Keith personality and wrestling style is not what Vince wants from a big guy. You really gonna go and want Keith lee to be Generic Angry Big Guy.
And Keith is way too nice for Vince.
As everything, Vince has a mold for someone like him and he didnt fit the mold
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