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Post by eJm on Feb 11, 2022 19:15:05 GMT -5
Also, if someone can explain to me what “mainstream appeal” is in 2022, I’d like to hear it.
Nobody’s done a good job in that.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Feb 11, 2022 19:17:05 GMT -5
Also, if someone can explain to me what “mainstream appeal” is in 2022, I’d like to hear it. Nobody’s done a good job in that. Just for being in the Star Wars universe, and constant promotional events, Sasha might be the most mainstream full time wrestler.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Feb 11, 2022 19:30:10 GMT -5
Oh I know, just saying they are looking for someone with more mainstream appeal, where indy alumni haven't really done so well with the WWE style. Roman is a self-fulfilling prophecy; they saw him as the hugest deal, he lucked into a group with real leverage and power, and then stubbornly kept cramming him into the spotlight because they decided he was a big deal and nothing was going to take that away. Eventually, five years later, they finally found a character for him that's been positively received instead of rejected by most of the audience. That's not the inherent star power of Roman as the very real definite megastar over everyone else, that's a testament to them being stubbornly impatient with a guy who had real potential and forcing him to happen until finally he did. How much actual mainstream appeal Roman has seems questionable, they've just refused to back down on this one guy. But by contrast, indie alumni? Nah that's been most of the main event level guys and first-time world champions crowned in the last decade. Seth Rollins was ROH world champ, Drew spent half a decade on the indies before his first run, became a real star in the three years he spent on the UK indies, and came back to WWE ready to finally be a bigger deal. Lashley was seen as an obvious megastar, he washed out inside of three years, and it took two different TNA runs for him to show off something worthy of the main event. Bryan got there in spite of the universe aligning to try and stop him. Punk. AJ Styles. Like even if we want to take the body count of NXT call-ups and blame them all for not being good enough or the right kind of good enough, the idea that people coming from the outside haven't done so well is objectively not true. There is room not only for people to do well in WWE, but to be their high end wrestlers. Well when looking at the Black and Gold alumni who have succeeded on the main roster and those who haven’t… a lot of them didn’t cross over well, regardless of booking imo.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Feb 11, 2022 19:30:48 GMT -5
Also, if someone can explain to me what “mainstream appeal” is in 2022, I’d like to hear it. Nobody’s done a good job in that. Just for being in the Star Wars universe, and constant promotional events, Sasha might be the most mainstream full time wrestler. And yet they refuse to push her up to that level? It’s bizarre?
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Feb 11, 2022 19:32:26 GMT -5
Also, if someone can explain to me what “mainstream appeal” is in 2022, I’d like to hear it. Nobody’s done a good job in that. Mainstream appeal- characteristics that can draw in the non-niche fan to make the company less of a niche and “hot shit.”
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Post by eJm on Feb 11, 2022 19:37:06 GMT -5
Also, if someone can explain to me what “mainstream appeal” is in 2022, I’d like to hear it. Nobody’s done a good job in that. Just for being in the Star Wars universe, and constant promotional events, Sasha might be the most mainstream full time wrestler. Like, the weirdest thing from that whole situation is that a) Sasha wasn’t even found through a WWE appearence, Jon Faverea found her on an episode of Hot Wings and b) WWE didn’t move heaven and earth to try and do a deal with Disney for cross promotion. They just kind of never mentioned it except vague comments.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Feb 11, 2022 19:39:10 GMT -5
Roman is a self-fulfilling prophecy; they saw him as the hugest deal, he lucked into a group with real leverage and power, and then stubbornly kept cramming him into the spotlight because they decided he was a big deal and nothing was going to take that away. Eventually, five years later, they finally found a character for him that's been positively received instead of rejected by most of the audience. That's not the inherent star power of Roman as the very real definite megastar over everyone else, that's a testament to them being stubbornly impatient with a guy who had real potential and forcing him to happen until finally he did. How much actual mainstream appeal Roman has seems questionable, they've just refused to back down on this one guy. But by contrast, indie alumni? Nah that's been most of the main event level guys and first-time world champions crowned in the last decade. Seth Rollins was ROH world champ, Drew spent half a decade on the indies before his first run, became a real star in the three years he spent on the UK indies, and came back to WWE ready to finally be a bigger deal. Lashley was seen as an obvious megastar, he washed out inside of three years, and it took two different TNA runs for him to show off something worthy of the main event. Bryan got there in spite of the universe aligning to try and stop him. Punk. AJ Styles. Like even if we want to take the body count of NXT call-ups and blame them all for not being good enough or the right kind of good enough, the idea that people coming from the outside haven't done so well is objectively not true. There is room not only for people to do well in WWE, but to be their high end wrestlers. Well when looking at the Black and Gold alumni who have succeeded on the main roster and those who haven’t… a lot of them didn’t cross over well, regardless of booking imo. I don't know if you meant to quote someone else's post but that's not any of what I'm talking about. I'm saying even if we grant this idea and don't debate it, there's all this other shit.
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Post by lildude8218 on Feb 11, 2022 19:40:00 GMT -5
"No more than you can count on one hand."
so no more than 5 then, Dave? Is it that hard to say that?
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Feb 11, 2022 19:40:38 GMT -5
Also, if someone can explain to me what “mainstream appeal” is in 2022, I’d like to hear it. Nobody’s done a good job in that. Just for being in the Star Wars universe, and constant promotional events, Sasha might be the most mainstream full time wrestler. Sorta but like not really? I've never heard anyone talk about Sasha's role... or character as anything other than like... she was in the episode. But yeah, as I've said like 100 times there is no mainstream to appeal to anymore. Media consumption is so fractured and broken from what it was even 10 years ago... there is very little you can point to and go... THIS is the thing almost everyone likes...
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Post by eJm on Feb 11, 2022 19:41:58 GMT -5
Well when looking at the Black and Gold alumni who have succeeded on the main roster and those who haven’t… a lot of them didn’t cross over well, regardless of booking imo. I don't know if you meant to quote someone else's post but that's not any of what I'm talking about. I'm saying even if we grant this idea and don't debate it, there's all this other shit. They’re clearly were trying to quote me and to that I say…dude. That’s not an answer, that’s you ignoring a lot of factors.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Feb 11, 2022 19:42:04 GMT -5
Gee it's almost like almost exclusively pursuing only outsiders with no experience isn't a good idea and historically led to a really high rate of failure and washouts for WWE. It worked for GLOW, it can work for WWE! Seriously, GLOW is the only wrestling promotion I can think of that straight-up trained people from scratch.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Feb 11, 2022 19:44:24 GMT -5
Also, if someone can explain to me what “mainstream appeal” is in 2022, I’d like to hear it. Nobody’s done a good job in that. Mainstream appeal- characteristics that can draw in the non-niche fan to make the company less of a niche and “hot shit.” There is no mainstream to cater too, and on top of that almost no one is flipping channels to look for things to watch any more... that is pretty much completely gone due to things like DVR, Youtube, Netflix, Disney+ etc So by going for "Mainstream casual fans" you are courting people that probably don't exist over fans that quantifiably do exist.
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Post by eJm on Feb 11, 2022 19:48:24 GMT -5
Also, if someone can explain to me what “mainstream appeal” is in 2022, I’d like to hear it. Nobody’s done a good job in that. Mainstream appeal- characteristics that can draw in the non-niche fan to make the company less of a niche and “hot shit.” And those are…what exactly? Saying this over and over again isn’t an answer because you’ve never, ever explained what you mean by it. You just throw around the term “mainstream” and expect that to be the caveat.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Feb 11, 2022 19:55:14 GMT -5
Mainstream appeal- characteristics that can draw in the non-niche fan to make the company less of a niche and “hot shit.” There is no mainstream to cater too, and on top of that almost no one is flipping channels to look for things to watch any more... that is pretty much completely gone due to things like DVR, Youtube, Netflix, Disney+ etc So by going for "Mainstream casual fans" you are courting people that probably don't exist over fans that quantifiably do exist. That's the challenge that imo the internet has trouble reconciling. We see it with AEW. (PLEASE DON'T TAKE THAT AS A KNOCK,NOT MY INTENTION) You can give fans what they want, and they can enjoy it. They can reach a relative level of success, but there's a ceiling. Vince is focused on a getting back the casual fans. The last of them went with Cena. Vince doesn't want relative success, he wants to thrive and be hot shit. That's why he books the way he does. Any talks of sale imo, is Vince conceding that wrestling will never reach those heights again. I may not always like what Vince does, on and behind the scenes, but I can understand why he sticks to his ways. It's not out spite for the quantifiable fan or not caring. It's chasing the mainstream.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Feb 11, 2022 19:58:14 GMT -5
Mainstream appeal- characteristics that can draw in the non-niche fan to make the company less of a niche and “hot shit.” And those are…what exactly? Saying this over and over again isn’t an answer because you’ve never, ever explained what you mean by it. You just throw around the term “mainstream” and expect that to be the caveat. I just explained it. There's a difference why people outside the iwc wanted to see, Rock Austin Cena over the recent crop of talent. They were celebrities. but we obviously are grating on each other. Let's end it before hard feelings develop. I for one feel a little attacked and vilified by you sometimes, even though I know you're good people.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Feb 11, 2022 19:59:33 GMT -5
Just for being in the Star Wars universe, and constant promotional events, Sasha might be the most mainstream full time wrestler. Like, the weirdest thing from that whole situation is that a) Sasha wasn’t even found through a WWE appearence, Jon Faverea was found on an episode of Hot Wings and b) WWE didn’t move heaven and earth to try and do a deal with Disney for cross promotion. They just kind of never mentioned it except vague comments. They clearly learned from Dixie Carter in that regard to promotion. You've got somebody guest starring in one of the top streaming shows on the planet, and you don't promote it and don't work out something with Disney for some cross promotion. But that's probably because WWE didn't broker the deal, so they didn't want to take a slam dunk promotional deal.
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Post by eJm on Feb 11, 2022 20:05:20 GMT -5
And those are…what exactly? Saying this over and over again isn’t an answer because you’ve never, ever explained what you mean by it. You just throw around the term “mainstream” and expect that to be the caveat. I just explained it. There's a difference why people outside the iwc wanted to see, Rock Austin Cena over the recent crop of talent. They were celebrities. but we obviously are grating on each other. Let's end it before hard feelings develop. I for one feel a little attacked and vilified by you sometimes, even though I know you're good people. The issue is you’re saying these statements and have never backed them up. You don’t understand the contexts of people like Austin, Cena and Rock getting big, nor the history of how two of those people debuted in goober-like gimmicks before they let them be themselves (something they’re really not doing right now) and making sure they had a good stable of people around them to help them be elevated. It wasn’t just because they were mainstream or big to people, there was contexts and moving parts to make that work. And for all the talk of them going for what is mainstream, ignoring the fact that Sasha Banks was on, at one point, one of the biggest TV shows in the world is not exactly going for the mainstream as ignoring it because it didn’t make them that money. Like, I’m sorry if you feel that way but I’m not sorry for trying to get you to understand what the issue is with you throwing out the terms you do and acting like it makes sense when it absolutely, clearly isn’t for WWE’s way of thinking.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Feb 11, 2022 20:09:13 GMT -5
I just explained it. There's a difference why people outside the iwc wanted to see, Rock Austin Cena over the recent crop of talent. They were celebrities. but we obviously are grating on each other. Let's end it before hard feelings develop. I for one feel a little attacked and vilified by you sometimes, even though I know you're good people. The issue is you’re saying these statements and have never backed them up. You don’t understand the contexts of people like Austin, Cena and Rock getting big, nor the history of how two of those people debuted in goober-like gimmicks before they let them be themselves (something they’re really not doing right now) and making sure they had a good stable of people around them to help them be elevated. It wasn’t just because they were mainstream or big to people, there was contexts and moving parts to make that work. And for all the talk of them going for what is mainstream, ignoring the fact that Sasha Banks was on, at one point, one of the biggest TV shows in the world is not exactly going for the mainstream as ignoring it because it didn’t make them that money. Like, I’m sorry if you feel that way but I’m not sorry for trying to get you to understand what the issue is with you throwing out the terms you do and acting like it makes sense when it absolutely, clearly isn’t for WWE’s way of thinking. well I think I do everything your accusing me of not doing. It's not worth talking about it anymore. I find it pretty apparent. If you don't like what I have to say, I get it, it's expected on an online forum. But I don't think I'm saying anything too out there. it's just another way of thinking.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Feb 11, 2022 20:14:24 GMT -5
This ia about control. They want the WWE to be a walled garden, where they choose everyone within those walls and own their careers from cradle to grave. Anyone who leaves has to start from scratch with a new name and no contacts that can help them make money on the indies, so most just leave the sport like the vast majority of the FCW Orton clones.
I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more masked wrestlers so they retain the gimmick like suicide or Sin Cara so can.pass it on to the next poor sod om minimum wage... Never forget how poorly paid most of them will be.
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El Pollo Guerrera
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Post by El Pollo Guerrera on Feb 11, 2022 20:32:17 GMT -5
Hmmm... Vince doesn't want wrestlers, he wants stars.
So he's going to take non-wrestling athletes and athletic performers and try to turn them into wrestlers, so that they can become stars.
Those with "it" get elevated quickly and then either get injured because they don't have the "wrestling" part nailed down, or leave to become stars elsewhere because they don't want to be tied to rasslin'.
Leaving Vince with undertrained wrestlers who want to be stars but can't cut it.
Damnit just change the name to World Entertainment...
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