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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Feb 11, 2022 20:33:52 GMT -5
And those are…what exactly? Saying this over and over again isn’t an answer because you’ve never, ever explained what you mean by it. You just throw around the term “mainstream” and expect that to be the caveat. I just explained it. There's a difference why people outside the iwc wanted to see, Rock Austin Cena over the recent crop of talent. They were celebrities. but we obviously are grating on each other. Let's end it before hard feelings develop. I for one feel a little attacked and vilified by you sometimes, even though I know you're good people. If The Rock debuted in 2015, there's no way he would be an international megastar. Just point blank. He could work like AJ Styles and he'd still be huge in WWE and an absolute dreck of a "Who?" to anyone who has never watched pro wrestling. Stone Cold Steve Austin was a character that was always going to get to the top of WWE, but he did so during a boom period so instead of just being wrestling big, he was big big. But Steve Austin today, over as he'd be, wouldn't be pulling in millions of new fans and heaps of money. It seems reasonable to get frustrated with the basic explanation of "mainstream appeal means people who were stars back then because the reason they were stars is because they were stars" because it's not looking any step past that baseline. The stars of wrestling were stars when wrestling was its most visible in culture, and if Ronda Rousey can't pull tons of eyes onto WWE and their part-timer binges bring on handfuls of lapsed fans still adjacent enough to the loop to notice it and tune in for a night, then maybe there just isn't some easy simple formula for putting in someone who will be the star. The Rock wasn't a celebrity before wrestling and after wrestling he took years to become a celebrity again. Nobody wanted to see The Tooth Fairy. Edit: WHich all still doesn't even really quantify what the traits are or how they will be found from college athletes. Because Roman sure as shit isn't pulling that number. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Feb 11, 2022 20:49:46 GMT -5
I just explained it. There's a difference why people outside the iwc wanted to see, Rock Austin Cena over the recent crop of talent. They were celebrities. but we obviously are grating on each other. Let's end it before hard feelings develop. I for one feel a little attacked and vilified by you sometimes, even though I know you're good people. If The Rock debuted in 2015, there's no way he would be an international megastar. Just point blank. He could work like AJ Styles and he'd still be huge in WWE and an absolute dreck of a "Who?" to anyone who has never watched pro wrestling. Stone Cold Steve Austin was a character that was always going to get to the top of WWE, but he did so during a boom period so instead of just being wrestling big, he was big big. But Steve Austin today, over as he'd be, wouldn't be pulling in millions of new fans and heaps of money. It seems reasonable to get frustrated with the basic explanation of "mainstream appeal means people who were stars back then because the reason they were stars is because they were stars" because it's not looking any step past that baseline. The stars of wrestling were stars when wrestling was its most visible in culture, and if Ronda Rousey can't pull tons of eyes onto WWE and their part-timer binges bring on handfuls of lapsed fans still adjacent enough to the loop to notice it and tune in for a night, then maybe there just isn't some easy simple formula for putting in someone who will be the star. The Rock wasn't a celebrity before wrestling and after wrestling he took years to become a celebrity again. Nobody wanted to see The Tooth Fairy. Edit: WHich all still doesn't even really quantify what the traits are or how they will be found from college athletes. Because Roman sure as shit isn't pulling that number. You're also assuming that we'd get THE ROCK and Stone Cold Steve Austin... and not Vince shoving ROCKY MAIVIA Vs. THE RINGMASTER! as the two hottest stars in wrestling! |
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Feb 11, 2022 20:57:45 GMT -5
If The Rock debuted in 2015, there's no way he would be an international megastar. Just point blank. He could work like AJ Styles and he'd still be huge in WWE and an absolute dreck of a "Who?" to anyone who has never watched pro wrestling. Stone Cold Steve Austin was a character that was always going to get to the top of WWE, but he did so during a boom period so instead of just being wrestling big, he was big big. But Steve Austin today, over as he'd be, wouldn't be pulling in millions of new fans and heaps of money. It seems reasonable to get frustrated with the basic explanation of "mainstream appeal means people who were stars back then because the reason they were stars is because they were stars" because it's not looking any step past that baseline. The stars of wrestling were stars when wrestling was its most visible in culture, and if Ronda Rousey can't pull tons of eyes onto WWE and their part-timer binges bring on handfuls of lapsed fans still adjacent enough to the loop to notice it and tune in for a night, then maybe there just isn't some easy simple formula for putting in someone who will be the star. The Rock wasn't a celebrity before wrestling and after wrestling he took years to become a celebrity again. Nobody wanted to see The Tooth Fairy. Edit: WHich all still doesn't even really quantify what the traits are or how they will be found from college athletes. Because Roman sure as shit isn't pulling that number. You're also assuming that we'd get THE ROCK and Stone Cold Steve Austin... and not Vince shoving ROCKY MAIVIA Vs. THE RINGMASTER! as the two hottest stars in wrestling! Oh yeah, I'm giving this the most charitable try. Fact is, wrestling will never see another crossover star because nowadays 'crossover star' means they put the big fists lady from the League of Legends show into Fortnite. WWE has not been able to spark even a long-term upward trend with any celebrity involvement or ratings stunt they've pulled. Roman Reigns's run on Fox pulls in as-good if not worse ratings week to week than AJ and Ambrose's did six years ago on cable. We could get peak Rock vs. peak Stone Cold and people here might be all over it but you're at best getting a friend or two to check it out and them being into it. The media landscape isn't what it was twenty five years ago and it never will be again. Like I know it's fitting for Vince to be trapped in the '90s and not understand how things work now while trying to chase his idea of what a star still is, but that doesn't mean we have to keep our heads trapped in that time either. |
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Feb 11, 2022 21:18:14 GMT -5
What is the point in holding tryouts during Mania week when all the big players in independent wrestling are there for The Collective and WrestleCon if you don’t have any desire to court them?
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 11, 2022 21:36:26 GMT -5
I know I've said this before, but as much as I hope that Rok-C makes a lot of money and has success in her career, I can't help but feel pretty negative about how she'd get used in WWE.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,597
Member is Online
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Post by asuka007 on Feb 11, 2022 21:49:33 GMT -5
Bryan Alvarez has talked about this a bunch. And basically he predicts that in like a year, Vince will be back to wanting indie talent again.
Because Vince does not truly know what he wants. And he goes in this same weird circle over and over again.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2022 21:50:19 GMT -5
This is what the want to do this month. Check in a month and we will probably change our minds.
Anyways Jeff Cobb said it best “It’s amazing how many football standouts can’t figure out how to do a forward roll.”
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2022 21:52:04 GMT -5
Hmmm... Vince doesn't want wrestlers, he wants stars. So he's going to take non-wrestling athletes and athletic performers and try to turn them into wrestlers, so that they can become stars. Those with "it" get elevated quickly and then either get injured because they don't have the "wrestling" part nailed down, or leave to become stars elsewhere because they don't want to be tied to rasslin'. Leaving Vince with undertrained wrestlers who want to be stars but can't cut it. Damnit just change the name to World Entertainment... Didn’t you hear World is on their list of banned words. No seriously this isn’t a joke. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2022 22:47:35 GMT -5
Bryan Alvarez has talked about this a bunch. And basically he predicts that in like a year, Vince will be back to wanting indie talent again. Because Vince does not truly know what he wants. And he goes in this same weird circle over and over again. Oh it aint even gonna take a year because I believe people have been pointing it out like how many home grown talents have actually come out of the PC probably can count them on one hand and the best one to my memory is Bianca and look how long that took and even then when she finally got called up it took 6 months of doing nothing and being drafted to SD to finally have them get onboard with her. They are giving adament reason for so many top tier talents to walk away from this company when their deals are up and the desperation to fill those slots will become even more desperate. |
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 235,744
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 11, 2022 23:36:49 GMT -5
Bryan Alvarez has talked about this a bunch. And basically he predicts that in like a year, Vince will be back to wanting indie talent again. Because Vince does not truly know what he wants. And he goes in this same weird circle over and over again. I imagine when the Indies keep growing as well with blossoming young and promising talent, especially with COVID Restrictions lessening and lessening, he might begin to change his mind later too... |
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r.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bye
Posts: 16,469 
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Post by r. on Feb 12, 2022 0:00:34 GMT -5
Hmmm... Vince doesn't want wrestlers, he wants stars. So he's going to take non-wrestling athletes and athletic performers and try to turn them into wrestlers, so that they can become stars. Those with "it" get elevated quickly and then either get injured because they don't have the "wrestling" part nailed down, or leave to become stars elsewhere because they don't want to be tied to rasslin'. Leaving Vince with undertrained wrestlers who want to be stars but can't cut it. Damnit just change the name to World Entertainment... If World Wide Entertainment wasn't taken, I bet they would have ages ago |
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mc74
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,410
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Post by mc74 on Feb 12, 2022 21:00:48 GMT -5
Gee it's almost like almost exclusively pursuing only outsiders with no experience isn't a good idea and historically led to a really high rate of failure and washouts for WWE. And then they wonder why NXT 2.0 is such a disappointment compared to its predecessor. Like we all didn't see it coming from a mile away, lmao. |
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Feb 14, 2022 4:08:22 GMT -5
From the Observer:  "Well, everyone has stunk so far except this guy. Number 14, step forward and tell us why we should have you as a WWE Sports Entertainer?" "Well, I am a huge WWE fan, and" *covering mic with hand* "Get him the f*** out of here." |
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Post by Hulkshi Tanahashi on Feb 14, 2022 10:19:33 GMT -5
If The Rock debuted in 2015, there's no way he would be an international megastar. Just point blank. He could work like AJ Styles and he'd still be huge in WWE and an absolute dreck of a "Who?" to anyone who has never watched pro wrestling. Stone Cold Steve Austin was a character that was always going to get to the top of WWE, but he did so during a boom period so instead of just being wrestling big, he was big big. But Steve Austin today, over as he'd be, wouldn't be pulling in millions of new fans and heaps of money. It seems reasonable to get frustrated with the basic explanation of "mainstream appeal means people who were stars back then because the reason they were stars is because they were stars" because it's not looking any step past that baseline. The stars of wrestling were stars when wrestling was its most visible in culture, and if Ronda Rousey can't pull tons of eyes onto WWE and their part-timer binges bring on handfuls of lapsed fans still adjacent enough to the loop to notice it and tune in for a night, then maybe there just isn't some easy simple formula for putting in someone who will be the star. The Rock wasn't a celebrity before wrestling and after wrestling he took years to become a celebrity again. Nobody wanted to see The Tooth Fairy. Edit: WHich all still doesn't even really quantify what the traits are or how they will be found from college athletes. Because Roman sure as shit isn't pulling that number. You're also assuming that we'd get THE ROCK and Stone Cold Steve Austin... and not Vince shoving ROCKY MAIVIA Vs. THE RINGMASTER! as the two hottest stars in wrestling! Wrong!!!! It would be Flex Cavana VS Chilly McFreeze! |
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 13,987
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Post by salz4life on Feb 14, 2022 11:34:27 GMT -5
We inch closer and closer to shows main evented by Omos vs. Shanky with Omos/Shanky/Azeez tier talents filling the rest of the card. Veer will finally come out and do a run-in. |
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 13,987
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Post by salz4life on Feb 14, 2022 11:36:37 GMT -5
Just for being in the Star Wars universe, and constant promotional events, Sasha might be the most mainstream full time wrestler. And yet they refuse to push her up to that level? It’s bizarre? "WWE is the star, pal!" - Vince |
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,725 
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Post by nisidhe on Feb 14, 2022 14:24:20 GMT -5
Gee it's almost like almost exclusively pursuing only outsiders with no experience isn't a good idea and historically led to a really high rate of failure and washouts for WWE. It worked for GLOW, it can work for WWE! Seriously, GLOW is the only wrestling promotion I can think of that straight-up trained people from scratch. That they did. However, a) they were trained by Hector Guerrero, so they learned a good chunk of the business from him, b) the alternatives outside the Moolah system were few and far between and c) there was little failure because GLOW created characters as well as wrestlers, so strengths were pushed forward and weaknesses buried. |
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,725
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Post by nisidhe on Feb 14, 2022 14:30:27 GMT -5
Bryan Alvarez has talked about this a bunch. And basically he predicts that in like a year, Vince will be back to wanting indie talent again. Because Vince does not truly know what he wants. And he goes in this same weird circle over and over again. The problem with waiting for that to happen is that business may not wait for him. Guaranteed - the minute he starts courting the indies again, he's going to get a lot of hard "no"s in response or, worse, he'll have to pay a huge sum for each of the talents he can get - and then turn around and appease those already on the roster. The writing is on the wall for WWE. It's making the most money it has ever done, but it can no longer sustain itself. |
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,083
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Post by Mecca on Feb 14, 2022 16:01:44 GMT -5
Alvarez on the F4W live today says they signed Rok-C.
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Post by Terry McConkey on Feb 14, 2022 18:02:53 GMT -5
We inch closer and closer to shows main evented by Omos vs. Shanky with Omos/Shanky/Azeez tier talents filling the rest of the card. OH GOD NO. The programming is terrible enough already. Why bother watching when it's the same talents playing musical chairs with match types every week? |
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