Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Feb 18, 2022 11:42:44 GMT -5
Not to make this a thing between fanbases, but is Punk really outperforming Roman/Brock in the box office? It was based on what happened in 2021. He's giving Punk credit for selling out the United Center (The First Dance) and helping to drive ticket (and PPV) sales to ALL OUT. For WWE, if you followed the market, it was John Cena who really helped moved tickets this year. WrestleMania largely sells based on the event itself, months before matches are announced. In this way, Dave doesn't view Roman as the primary reason for these ticket sales. After initially having a great year in attendance once live audiences returned, WWE had some disappointing months of ticket sales. Cena was a big help once his name was added to shows (like the September MSG show). The Christmas MSG show was one of the most disappointing in decades as far as ticket sales, and it ran on what was usually the biggest day for attendance. You mentioned Brock. I think Brock only wrestled one match in 2021, and it was at WrestleMania. As I mentioned, Dave views WrestleMania a special event where the individual talent doesn't sell the show. For next year, I'm sure Dave will not view Saudi Arabia stadium shows as regular shows either since they are shows paid for by the Saudi Arabian government. It's not like the individual performers are responsible for the attendance. That's why Dave didn't pick Roman or Brock. He looked at what actually happened in 2021. As far as Omega placing third, Dave is probably giving Omega some of the credit for the gates of ALL OUT, Full Gear, and Dynamite Grand Slam (at Arthur Ashe Stadium) where he was in the major match of each show. Also, with WWE moving to Peacock and away from PPV, it takes them out of the PPV buy conversation. AEW still relies on PPV buys, which is another metric to consider.
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rocket
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,801
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Post by rocket on Feb 18, 2022 11:54:51 GMT -5
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Post by cornettesracket on Feb 18, 2022 12:19:32 GMT -5
If bron breaker doesn’t win the rookie of the year award next year then you can’t tell me Dave metlzer isn't biased as all hell.
And FTR and the briscos are better tag teams then the young bucks.
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Post by lildude8218 on Feb 18, 2022 12:20:50 GMT -5
If Jade is rookie of the year then I'm really not looking forward to seeing any other rookie in a match anytime soon.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Feb 18, 2022 12:21:31 GMT -5
If bron breaker doesn’t win the rookie of the year award next year then you can’t tell me Dave metlzer isn't biased as all hell. He doesn't pick the winners. He has been very positive toward Breakker so far. The voters may prefer Hook. We shall see.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Feb 18, 2022 12:23:42 GMT -5
Not to make this a thing between fanbases, but is Punk really outperforming Roman/Brock in the box office? It's hard to take these awards seriously given they're a small segment of the larger wrestling fanbase at large. I suppose an argument can be made that Punk is more important to AEW than Lesnar/Reigns are to WWE given the WWE machine always tends to keep moving, but it's definitely a little suspect.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,426
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Post by asuka007 on Feb 18, 2022 12:29:55 GMT -5
Not to make this a thing between fanbases, but is Punk really outperforming Roman/Brock in the box office? The problem with the Box Office is that WWE has SO MANY built on advantages that pretty much anyone they choose to push would win using that metric. Regardless of if the fans are paying to see them specifically or not. So really a WWE guy would win every year no matter what just using strictly money as a metric.
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Post by cornettesracket on Feb 18, 2022 12:30:48 GMT -5
If bron breaker doesn’t win the rookie of the year award next year then you can’t tell me Dave metlzer isn't biased as all hell. He doesn't pick the winners. He has been very positive toward Breakker so far. The voters may prefer Hook. We shall see. I know he doesn’t pick them but given the reach of the news letter he does have to ability to create a narrative around wrestlers. The fact that no WWE wrestlers won any award is ridiculous. Do all the fans who voted not like any WWE wrestlers or they do and have been swayed by Dave’s opinions ? He’s great on the facts and numbers and he’s the best at that imo. His opinions are just that though.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,426
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Post by asuka007 on Feb 18, 2022 12:31:16 GMT -5
If bron breaker doesn’t win the rookie of the year award next year then you can’t tell me Dave metlzer isn't biased as all hell. He doesn't pick the winners. He has been very positive toward Breakker so far. The voters may prefer Hook. We shall see. If you actually listen to Dave, it would be really clear that he is not the one picking the winners. Some of these results would be different if he was.
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Post by cornettesracket on Feb 18, 2022 12:41:19 GMT -5
Pro Wrestling Match of the Year: 1. Young Bucks vs. Lucha Brothers (ALL OUT) 2. Will Ospreay vs. Shingo Takagi (NJPW Wrestling Dontaku, Tag 2) 3. Kenny Omega vs. Bryan Danielson (AEW Dynamite)
This one result just makes a mockery of the whole thing. In what universe is omega vs Danielson not no 1 by a country mile ? That match was up with steamboat vs flair in 1989 and a clinic.
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Post by cornettesracket on Feb 18, 2022 12:43:36 GMT -5
He doesn't pick the winners. He has been very positive toward Breakker so far. The voters may prefer Hook. We shall see. If you actually listen to Dave, it would be really clear that he is not the one picking the winners. Some of these results would be different if he was. I clarified myself and said I know he didn’t pick the winners but I didn’t say he did pick them but he does have influence over them.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Feb 18, 2022 12:46:03 GMT -5
Not to make this a thing between fanbases, but is Punk really outperforming Roman/Brock in the box office? The problem with the Box Office is that WWE has SO MANY built on advantages that pretty much anyone they choose to push would win using that metric. Regardless of if the fans are paying to see them specifically or not. So really a WWE guy would win every year no matter what just using strictly money as a metric. WWE's primary revenue comes from deals with entertainment/media companies, i.e. NBC/Universal (including both USA Network and the Peacock service) and FOX. Their secondary business partner is the Saudi Arabian government. One Saudi event generates three times more money than the most successful WrestleMania event did, and there are two Saudi events per year for the next several years. The conventional business metrics like who helps sell the most tickets or PPV buys doesn't really reflect the modern day business, at least for WWE. Companies like FOX want stars like Ronda Rousey and Brock and Roman. Perhaps the government of Saudi Arabia wants stars of the past like Goldberg or Undertaker or Shawn Michaels. In these ways, those talents are more valuable to WWE's bottom line because they are the stars that their primary business partners want. So, perhaps Dave could consider something other than which wrestlers caused a lot of ticket sales or PPV buys. If that's his major metric, then it doesn't really reflect modern WWE. For WWE, brand names like WrestleMania and Royal Rumble are really what leads to big event ticket sales, more so than individual talents. Going by the traditional box office draw metrics, then I agree with Dave's pick of Punk, Cena, and Omega for the year 2021.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,426
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Post by asuka007 on Feb 18, 2022 12:50:16 GMT -5
The problem with the Box Office is that WWE has SO MANY built on advantages that pretty much anyone they choose to push would win using that metric. Regardless of if the fans are paying to see them specifically or not. So really a WWE guy would win every year no matter what just using strictly money as a metric. WWE's primary revenue comes from deals with entertainment/media companies, i.e. NBC/Universal (including both USA Network and the Peacock service) and FOX. Their secondary business partner is the Saudi Arabian government. One Saudi event generates three times more money than the most successful WrestleMania event did, and there are two Saudi events per year for the next several years. The conventional business metrics like who helps sell the most tickets or PPV buys doesn't really reflect the modern day business, at least for WWE. Companies like FOX want stars like Ronda Rousey and Brock and Roman. Perhaps the government of Saudi Arabia wants stars of the past like Goldberg or Undertaker or Shawn Michaels. In these ways, those talents are more valuable to WWE's bottom line because they are the stars that their primary business partners want. So, perhaps Dave could consider something other than which wrestlers caused a lot of ticket sales or PPV buys. If that's his major metric, then it doesn't really reflect modern WWE. Going by the traditional box office draw metrics, then I agree with Dave's pick of Punk, Cena, and Omega for the year 2021. Also WWE’s PPV’s aren’t even really PPV’s anymore. So “selling a PPV” is kind of out as a metric as well.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Feb 18, 2022 13:04:57 GMT -5
Pro Wrestling Match of the Year: 1. Young Bucks vs. Lucha Brothers (ALL OUT) 2. Will Ospreay vs. Shingo Takagi (NJPW Wrestling Dontaku, Tag 2) 3. Kenny Omega vs. Bryan Danielson (AEW Dynamite) This one result just makes a mockery of the whole thing. In what universe is omega vs Danielson not no 1 by a country mile ? That match was up with steamboat vs flair in 1989 and a clinic. I saw both live and I'd vote for the tag match. The finish was perfect. Omega and Danielson was excellent but it's hard to win on a draw like that when you have an excellent match that got one of the biggest pops I've ever heard at the finish.
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Post by brettappedout (BLM) on Feb 18, 2022 13:10:04 GMT -5
Pro Wrestling Match of the Year: 1. Young Bucks vs. Lucha Brothers (ALL OUT) 2. Will Ospreay vs. Shingo Takagi (NJPW Wrestling Dontaku, Tag 2) 3. Kenny Omega vs. Bryan Danielson (AEW Dynamite) This one result just makes a mockery of the whole thing. In what universe is omega vs Danielson not no 1 by a country mile ? That match was up with steamboat vs flair in 1989 and a clinic. I saw both live and I'd vote for the tag match. The finish was perfect. Omega and Danielson was excellent but it's hard to win on a draw like that when you have an excellent match that got one of the biggest pops I've ever heard at the finish. I wasn't there live, but I agree. That tag match was wresting is about in all the right ways. Great workers, great moves/spot, great crowd and right winners. DAT POP through my TV was crazy.
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Post by stoptheclocks on Feb 18, 2022 13:32:21 GMT -5
Clearly not to my tastes, but those subscribers pay their money so deserve their votes.
But Pat McAfee deserved way more love in the announcer category. And Michael Cole way less hate.
I guess the reasons behind the latter point is true of many of the awards I guess. WWE is pretty clearly not the worst wrestling company in the world - it may be the most disappointing, most evil... whatever. But I struggle to believe people would objectively rather watch any other wrestling show on earth before NXT 2.0.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 38,940
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Post by fw91 on Feb 18, 2022 14:15:21 GMT -5
Not to make this a thing between fanbases, but is Punk really outperforming Roman/Brock in the box office? The problem with the Box Office is that WWE has SO MANY built on advantages that pretty much anyone they choose to push would win using that metric. Regardless of if the fans are paying to see them specifically or not. So really a WWE guy would win every year no matter what just using strictly money as a metric. Yeah that’s kinda my point. It’s the only award that should be objective. But I guess the argument works for both sides.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Feb 18, 2022 14:41:30 GMT -5
Aaaahh, the Observer Awards, one of the annual occasions for any discrepancy between someone's opinion and the awards being treated as a reason the awards are invalid.
My take on the awards is that, if I look back through the years of them, I can find some really good wrestling by seeing who won which awards, and that the awards in total have generally captured things about the wrestling landscape of a given year. I disagree with quite a lot of choices over the years, especially some of the Match of the Year wins (Toyota/Inoue in 1995 especially...but I can't even think they didn't deserve it because that match is so off the chain), but I've just about always found the results worth engaging with.
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mo
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
"Here are the young men, the weight on their shoulders..."
Posts: 16,550
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Post by mo on Feb 18, 2022 14:49:44 GMT -5
Can’t really argue with most of these, in terms of quality it was a banner year for AEW and not so much for WWE. I really should check out Stardom sometime.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Feb 18, 2022 14:54:48 GMT -5
Not to make this a thing between fanbases, but is Punk really outperforming Roman/Brock in the box office? It was based on what happened in 2021. He's giving Punk credit for selling out the United Center (The First Dance) and helping to drive ticket (and PPV) sales to ALL OUT. For WWE, if you followed the market, it was John Cena who really helped moved tickets this year. WrestleMania largely sells based on the event itself, months before matches are announced. In this way, Dave doesn't view Roman as the primary reason for these ticket sales. After initially having a great year in attendance once live audiences returned, WWE had some disappointing months of ticket sales. Cena was a big help once his name was added to shows (like the September MSG show). The Christmas MSG show was one of the most disappointing in decades as far as ticket sales, and it ran on what was usually the biggest day for attendance. You mentioned Brock. I think Brock only wrestled one match in 2021, and it was at WrestleMania. As I mentioned, Dave views WrestleMania a special event where the individual talent doesn't sell the show. For next year, I'm sure Dave will not view Saudi Arabia stadium shows as regular shows either since they are shows paid for by the Saudi Arabian government. It's not like the individual performers are responsible for the attendance. That's why Dave didn't pick Roman or Brock. He looked at what actually happened in 2021. As far as Omega placing third, Dave is probably giving Omega some of the credit for the gates of ALL OUT, Full Gear, and Dynamite Grand Slam (at Arthur Ashe Stadium) where he was in the major match of each show. Also, with WWE moving to Peacock and away from PPV, it takes them out of the PPV buy conversation. AEW still relies on PPV buys, which is another metric to consider. Thanks for sharing, I usually don’t pay attention to this stuff so I deeply appreciate when someone can phrase it clearly.
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