salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
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Post by salz4life on Feb 18, 2022 15:02:23 GMT -5
Not to make this a thing between fanbases, but is Punk really outperforming Roman/Brock in the box office? No... but again, you need to realize the audience. Corey Graves/Michael Cole are not the worst announcers in the business... but again, the voting audience. |
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
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Member is Online
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Post by fw91 on Feb 18, 2022 15:14:30 GMT -5
Not to make this a thing between fanbases, but is Punk really outperforming Roman/Brock in the box office? No... but again, you need to realize the audience. Corey Graves/Michael Cole are not the worst announcers in the business... but again, the voting audience. I mean of course I understand the fanbase that decides this, but box office draw sounds like it should be an objective metric |
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 13,955
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Post by salz4life on Feb 18, 2022 15:15:40 GMT -5
No... but again, you need to realize the audience. Corey Graves/Michael Cole are not the worst announcers in the business... but again, the voting audience. I mean of course I understand the fanbase that decides this, but box office draw sounds like it should be an objective metric Agreed... |
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khali
Dennis Stamp
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Post by khali on Feb 18, 2022 15:44:00 GMT -5
Pro Wrestling Match of the Year: 1. Young Bucks vs. Lucha Brothers (ALL OUT) 2. Will Ospreay vs. Shingo Takagi (NJPW Wrestling Dontaku, Tag 2) 3. Kenny Omega vs. Bryan Danielson (AEW Dynamite) This one result just makes a mockery of the whole thing. In what universe is omega vs Danielson not no 1 by a country mile ? That match was up with steamboat vs flair in 1989 and a clinic. Presumably this universe, since that’s the way the voting went. |
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Feb 18, 2022 15:51:49 GMT -5
Best Box Office Draw is somewhat subjective (at least in wrestling, it gets less objective in combat sports because obviously people pay millions of dollars for some guys). Is Roman the biggest draw because he is the star on the most watched show? I don't know, maybe? He was off some weeks and the show did just fine. The issue with WWE is the ratings are usually pretty damn steady regardless of who's on. PPV doesn't really exist for them as a measuring stick. There are live gates which existed for only half the year and it was clear Cena had a big impact so there's a case for him. Roman had a marginal impact but also while working with big names like Brock. Punk may have been watched by less people but he also clearly on his name value alone sold out a giant building, sold a ton of merch, and drew strong numbers on PPV. It's hard to compare because someone like Roman doesn't have the chance to draw on PPV but that's the reality of the situation.
The main philosophical difference and debate with this award is do you reward overall draw or the marginal effect you had on the draw even if the overall draw is smaller. And it gets even more debatable to determine the individual impact when a lot of the draw these days is the brand and not the wrestler.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Feb 18, 2022 16:29:05 GMT -5
There's really no obvious answer for best box-office draw. Cena sold a bunch of extra tickets and did great business but he was only around for a month and a half before going back to Hollywood. Punk increased business too but it was also only for a month or so. After Aug-Sep numbers went back to what they were before he arrived and his second PPV (Full Gear) had less buys than the last PPV before he came in (DoN). Roman is the biggest full-time star in wrestling today but we don't get PPV numbers for WWE like we used to and we rarely even get quarter hour numbers for their TV shows so you can't even really compare how he draws on TV to others. He's probably their top draw but we're just assuming. I don't think there's a full-time name in wrestling today who if they went away their company would take a massive hit, business wise. WWE and AEW have cultivated fanbases who are fans of the company more than any individual wrestler.
I'm just glad Meltzer finally made wrestling/MMA box-office draws separate categories. It never made sense to me that for 10-15 years he lumped them in together.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,424
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Post by asuka007 on Feb 18, 2022 20:37:08 GMT -5
Would they be so bold as to put Michelle McCool into the HOF the same year as her hubby?
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,424
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Post by asuka007 on Feb 18, 2022 20:39:14 GMT -5
How much did they pay to get Metallica for this.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 19, 2022 9:05:24 GMT -5
Not to make this a thing between fanbases, but is Punk really outperforming Roman/Brock in the box office? No... but again, you need to realize the audience. Corey Graves/Michael Cole are not the worst announcers in the business... but again, the voting audience. Yeah if you’ve ever read the Meltzer forums, you’d realize what type of audience we’re talking about here. |
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msc
Dennis Stamp
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Post by msc on Feb 19, 2022 9:34:28 GMT -5
tbh Michael Cole probably had his best year since he was on Smackdown with Tazz way back in the day. The McAfee/Cole relationship was really upped his enthusiasm and game, and Cole has always been a pretty decent commentator when enthused about a product AND when not playing a heel and just being himself.
Actually commentary as a whole has improved. Smackdown's really works now, the AEW booth work well together and RAW doesn't stand out...
There are a few awards I'd give to others, but then, I am not the Observer audience and I've known that for over 20 years now!
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Feb 19, 2022 9:41:45 GMT -5
After Aug-Sep numbers went back to what they were before he arrived and his second PPV (Full Gear) had less buys than the last PPV before he came in (DoN). Full Gear ended up doing about 10K more than Double or Nothing so you could argue he made a difference there, especially with the fact that Full Gear had typically done the worst buyrate based on their first two years. |
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Feb 19, 2022 11:04:46 GMT -5
I really wish Anthony Bowens won most improved. That’s who I voted for. CMLL is lucky that no one watches them/cares about their product. They are so beyond bad. Way worse than WWE. WWE, while deserving of some negative awards, is just popular. Which means more people see them so they just associate them with being the worst. They’re not. CMLL has been putting on the exact same product for the last several decades. Like absolutely no change. |
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Post by flowercity on Feb 19, 2022 11:18:20 GMT -5
I really wish Anthony Bowens won most improved. That’s who I voted for. CMLL is lucky that no one watches them/cares about their product. They are so beyond bad. Way worse than WWE. WWE, while deserving of some negative awards, is just popular. Which means more people see them so they just associate them with being the worst. They’re not. CMLL has been putting on the exact same product for the last several decades. Like absolutely no change. I mean that just isn’t true. The talent used by CMLL was always great. This year? The Anniversary show was main evented by a tag team of Rey Cometa and Espiritu Negro. Their big shows have been terrible. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2022 11:30:04 GMT -5
I've never enjoyed Cole's commentary in any capacity. Whether shackled to Vince or not, the dude just sounds completely phony. That said, I'd take him over Corey Graves' "edgelord Jerry Lawler" or Matt Striker's "I'm such an insider, bro" routines any day of the week.
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Feb 19, 2022 11:58:49 GMT -5
CMLL has been putting on the exact same product for the last several decades. Like absolutely no change. I mean that just isn’t true. The talent used by CMLL was always great. This year? The Anniversary show was main evented by a tag team of Rey Cometa and Espiritu Negro. Their big shows have been terrible. The names change but the product doesn't. They have the same matches on events that all feel pretty much the same with little variation. And sure that can work when you have talent that the fans really like and care about, but CMLL doesn't anymore, so flaws that have always been there are just now more apparent. Just now they don't have the name value to cover that up. |
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chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
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Post by chrom on Feb 19, 2022 12:11:05 GMT -5
I mean that just isn’t true. The talent used by CMLL was always great. This year? The Anniversary show was main evented by a tag team of Rey Cometa and Espiritu Negro. Their big shows have been terrible. The names change but the product doesn't. They have the same matches on events that all feel pretty much the same with little variation. And sure that can work when you have talent that the fans really like and care about, but CMLL doesn't anymore, so flaws that have always been there are just now more apparent. Just now they don't have the name value to cover that up. Right now the product in CMLL is about as exciting as watching grass grow |
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Post by flowercity on Feb 19, 2022 12:23:43 GMT -5
I mean that just isn’t true. The talent used by CMLL was always great. This year? The Anniversary show was main evented by a tag team of Rey Cometa and Espiritu Negro. Their big shows have been terrible. The names change but the product doesn't. They have the same matches on events that all feel pretty much the same with little variation. And sure that can work when you have talent that the fans really like and care about, but CMLL doesn't anymore, so flaws that have always been there are just now more apparent. Just now they don't have the name value to cover that up. Alright yeah that’s totally fair. Didn’t think of it like that. They still deserve worst promotion! |
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Feb 19, 2022 12:36:35 GMT -5
The names change but the product doesn't. They have the same matches on events that all feel pretty much the same with little variation. And sure that can work when you have talent that the fans really like and care about, but CMLL doesn't anymore, so flaws that have always been there are just now more apparent. Just now they don't have the name value to cover that up. Alright yeah that’s totally fair. Didn’t think of it like that. They still deserve worst promotion! I'd agree given that WWE's had some highlights this year, while CMLL had their biggest show of the year headlined by a bunch of guys no one's ever heard of. |
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JoDaNa1281
Crow T. Robot
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Feb 19, 2022 12:40:27 GMT -5
tbh Michael Cole probably had his best year since he was on Smackdown with Tazz way back in the day. The McAfee/Cole relationship was really upped his enthusiasm and game, and Cole has always been a pretty decent commentator when enthused about a product AND when not playing a heel and just being himself. Actually commentary as a whole has improved. Smackdown's really works now, the AEW booth work well together and RAW doesn't stand out... There are a few awards I'd give to others, but then, I am not the Observer audience and I've known that for over 20 years now! Not to mention, Tom Hannifan being great since debuting for Impact. |
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
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Post by Dub H on Feb 19, 2022 13:48:52 GMT -5
I don't get the EVIL as 'Most Overrated'? Who's rating House of Torture EVIL? No one! 'Worst use of talent' or 'Most Overused' would make more sense. To me, overrated means that the consensus says that they are good, but you don't see it/get it. Nobody is saying this incarnation of EVIL is good. Yeh im honestly surprised Roman didnt win,even considering the push part But I guess at least Roman has a following to justify the push |
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