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Post by jimmyjames on Mar 12, 2022 17:48:33 GMT -5
Edge's high school yearbook: Want to be WWE champion.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Mar 12, 2022 18:26:57 GMT -5
Shawn super kicked Marty thru the Barber Shop Window.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Mar 12, 2022 18:36:06 GMT -5
“The biggest match in Wrestlemania history!!”
It’s Hogan/Andre. It will always be Hogan/Andre.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Mar 12, 2022 18:43:33 GMT -5
People who act like they saw Davey Boy Smith piggybacking a near-crippled Dynamite Kid out to the ring for their tag title loss. No you didn't, chief. Match began with the Bulldogs already at ringside.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Mar 12, 2022 18:54:49 GMT -5
Edge's high school yearbook: Want to be WWE champion. So that was not true? Edit. Because he was voted most likely to be WWF not WWE. I get it now. |
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Post by James Fabiano on Mar 12, 2022 18:59:33 GMT -5
Edge's high school yearbook: Want to be WWE champion. So that was not true? Edit. Because he was voted most likely to be WWF not WWE. I get it now. The WWF/WWE thing in general. I get why, but... |
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Post by DoubleDare on Mar 12, 2022 19:00:08 GMT -5
Michael Cole, "I've never seen the Undertaker manhandled like this before" To be fair, he just kept it up since Jim Ross always said that too (and probably Gorilla too) |
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Post by Feyrhausen on Mar 12, 2022 20:00:36 GMT -5
So that was not true? Edit. Because he was voted most likely to be WWF not WWE. I get it now. The WWF/WWE thing in general. I get why, but... I believe what the original poster was saying was that WWE likes to claim Edge was voted most likely to be WWE champion in high school. But he was actually voted most likely to be WWF champion. Hence the revisionist history. I thought he was saying they made the entire thing up until I made the WWE/WWF connection in my head. |
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Mar 12, 2022 21:50:53 GMT -5
"Remember when Hardcore Holly won the World Heavyweight Title at Wrestlemania?"
Yes I know it's just a meme, but it's the only close example I remember.
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Post by oxbaker on Mar 12, 2022 22:11:43 GMT -5
NXT's title is a world title, PWG title, plus there's the ROH one, obviously. I guess that'd still be wrong in so far as Cole obviously didn't win the IWGP title, but I don't think he really ever caught on that much in Japan to begin with, honestly. Also CZW, so yeah. Feels more like an exaggeration than a full-blown revision. One for me is when people lionize the NWA, when honestly, the treatment of Ann Gunkel was absolutely disgusting, and they transparently abandoned Nick Gulas with the exception of The Sheik trying to still help him in the doomed war against Jerry Jarrett. Vince isn't the angel he presented himself as, but he also was battling other scoundrels, too. Was actually reading about the split in Bret's book last night. Verne Gagne was already persona non gratis as someone who wanted to expand and take out others, Vince and Ole Anderson got into an argument about TV deals in North Carolina and Philly, and Vince left the room, while the Crocketts were trying to schmooze others. Stu Hart (and yes this is Bret's posthumous take on his dad, so caveat) apparently summed it up as Verne, Vince and the Crocketts would expand and piss on everyone else, and Vince had the New York TV deal so Verne and the Crocketts would run out of money quicker. But yeah, sounded like a nest of vipers. Nobody in wrestling screwed the pooch the way Gagne did. He had Hulk Hogan and a territory that stretched across the Midwest and was planning to venture into New York but refused to take the strap off Bockwinkel and put it on Hogan, whom people were begging to have crowned (this after Rocky II). Gagne demanded most of Hulk’s merch and New Japan tour money and Hogan actually offered 50% as a compromise and he STILL wouldn’t do it. So Hogan left for Vince, who promised to give him the WWF title and put a rocket on him (which he did). THEN, Gagne somehow fell into a deal with ESPN (which wasn’t yet what it is today) that lasted from 1985-90 … and had the glitz and glam of Las Vegas (similar to what WCW would later have with Disney in Orlando for a while) … and still screwed that up. Imagine if he had just done the right thing and put Hogan on top of his promotion and then had ESPN as his outlet with the Hulkster as his main attraction. But, no, ultimately he wanted his no-look, no-charisma son as his main act. (And to address your point, yeah, Gagne left the NWA in 1960 and created the AWA and began making side deals with promoters far outside his territory and expanding his reach well before Vince began doing it.) |
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Mar 12, 2022 22:21:01 GMT -5
This is pretty revisionist in and of itself. The AWA title wasn't going to keep Hogan around and Greg was never really the "main act" in the AWA, except maybe at the tail end when everyone else had left.
Gagne was not an NWA member, but he was still a part of the cartel, and a convenient person for the Alliance to point to and say, "No, we're not violating any antitrust laws and we're not a cartel--see?"
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Mar 12, 2022 22:23:38 GMT -5
There were very, very few belt marks among the boys of the territory era. Yes, maybe a title run meant more money, but if you could get paid the same without being the champion, most people would take it. But generally, a wrestler of the '80s and before wasn't going to be swayed with merely the promise of a title without something else to go with it. Vince could provide that to Hogan--Verne could not, even if he played all of his cards perfectly correctly.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Mar 13, 2022 0:43:48 GMT -5
"Ole Anderson was the worst booker ever."
People always use 1990 and the Black Scorpion to back up statements like this.
It ignores the fact that Jim Herd was pushing for a WWF copycat. Asking Ole Anderson to book that style of wrestling would be like asking Vince Russo to book in the style of Mid-Atlantic or Jim Cornette to book a lucha company.
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Post by oxbaker on Mar 13, 2022 1:11:33 GMT -5
This is pretty revisionist in and of itself. The AWA title wasn't going to keep Hogan around and Greg was never really the "main act" in the AWA, except maybe at the tail end when everyone else had left. Gagne was not an NWA member, but he was still a part of the cartel, and a convenient person for the Alliance to point to and say, "No, we're not violating any antitrust laws and we're not a cartel--see?" It would if Hogan was the guy making more money than he could make elsewhere, which certainly wasn’t going to happen if he’s not the star attraction at the top of the card, which Verne was never going to make him. Vergne wanted a technical wrestler (i.e. the best worker) as champ and Hogan was never going ot be that. But if hadn’t been so stubborn and short-sighted, his plan was to continue to expand the AWA and, specifically most immediately, do a cage match with Bockwinkel and Hogan in NYC. Let Hogan go over at MSG and you’ve got your star. And we’re not too far at that point from Vergne doing PPVs, which he did in association with other promotions, and if he had done so with Hogan as his star Hogan was probably going to make more money than in Vince’s territory — this is before WWF had taken over the wrestling world. Nobody knew at the time that this would happen and work in such a big way, that WrestleMania would become the sport’s Super Bowl level event, that there would be regular PPVs and Saturday Night Main Event on NBC, etc. Turns out Vergne was just a few years away from having a national TV deal with ESPN. Couple that with keeping Hogan and today the AWA could very realistically have become what the WWF became. |
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67 more
King Koopa
He's just a Sexy Kurt
Posts: 11,503
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Post by 67 more on Mar 13, 2022 3:01:11 GMT -5
"Remember when Hardcore Holly won the World Heavyweight Title at Wrestlemania?" Yes I know it's just a meme, but it's the only close example I remember. Replace Holly for Saturn or Stevie Richards depending where on the internet you're heading to. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 13, 2022 3:09:17 GMT -5
Vince destroyed the territories, itself is a bit of a revision of history.
While he certainly didn't help, most of the territories died without interference from him.
Several tried and failed to expand, some just were so poorly managed that they fell apart on their own.
and like the biggest one... Vince wasn't the only attempting to go national... he was just the one that did it successfully.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 13, 2022 4:39:18 GMT -5
Also people like acting like ADR was NEVER over in the WWE...
in his first feud with Rey until Mania was getting a lot of heat... then he lost to Edge... and then to Christian... and they kept him in a holding pattern saying the same shit and basically doing the same AGGRESSIVE! thing of holding the armbar after the bell, for like a year.
He was also very over as a face when he turned... it wasn't until they started taking away a lot of the things that got him over to begin with (like suddenly he's not a Mexican Aristocrat despite that being his whole gimmick.) and eventually having him feud with Dolph Ziggler who the crowd really wanted to cheer at that point.
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Post by The Barber on Mar 13, 2022 6:31:09 GMT -5
I remember before WM7 that Monsoon said it was the first time Hogan was going into a WM main event as the challenger. Except for the main event two years earlier at WM5 when he was challenging Savage for the belt... I feel that's a case of bad memory over selective. Monsoon said a lot of wrong things. Yeah...I like Gorilla, but there are times where he seemed either lost or didn't care/pay attention to what was going on in the ring. Here's another one: "There were riots everywhere we went" - If pro wrestling caused as many riots as every old wrestler says that they did, pro wrestling in the US would cease to exist because no major building would want to deal with that kind of hassle. It wouldn't surprise me that most old timey wrestling stories are bullshit. |
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Mar 13, 2022 7:24:43 GMT -5
Vince destroyed the territories, itself is a bit of a revision of history. While he certainly didn't help, most of the territories died without interference from him. Several tried and failed to expand, some just were so poorly managed that they fell apart on their own. and like the biggest one... Vince wasn't the only attempting to go national... he was just the one that did it successfully. The thing is as well, even without the bad management and promoters trying to go national, the territorial structure was on borrowed time anyway. The seventies is viewed by many as a bit of a golden era of territorial wrestling, but the industry was in decline; the fifties and sixties TV boom was over, ticket sales were down in quite a few territories, and a lot of aging promoters were close to retiring and selling or closing their territories. Then cable's arrival in the late seventies rendered the whole concept of regional wrestling all but obsolete. McMahon was the one who got the breaks, his expansion had a hand in it, but this idea that he single-handedly destroyed the territories is absolute nonsense.
On this subject, I've been doing a bit of research on the decline of British wrestling in the late eighties, and people have a lot of ideas about how and why that went down that I'm not sure are entirely accurate. People claim it was still popular and Greg Dyke is often derided as a horrible classist bastard for axing it because it was "too working class", and there's still a massive amount of nostalgia for it and people who think it was a travesty that it was axed. The reality was that its viewership had been declining since the early eighties, and while class may have played a part, it was largely about money: ITV had just signed a contract with the Football League it needed to pay for, and the Crabtrees were apparently charging an absolute fortune for television. And the whole thing was just a bit shit and dated compared to the WWF which was now available. Like territorial wrestling in the US, it was doomed.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Mar 13, 2022 8:50:51 GMT -5
It felt like TNA went out of their way to try to get you to forget their own history every few years, especially after Hogan came in.
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