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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Mar 26, 2022 12:38:10 GMT -5
A relic of the 80s that probably should have best stayed there, and who's later years will always be muddied by scandal after scandal.
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Post by GuyOfOwnage on Mar 26, 2022 12:42:04 GMT -5
Hulk Hogan the character will justifiably be remembered for its importance to the history and success of pro wrestling as a global industry.
Terry Bollea the man will be justifiably criticized for all the profoundly stupid shit he's said and done.
The general public will only know or care about the former, whereas those of us in forums like this one will care about both but likely lean towards the latter.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Mar 26, 2022 13:35:35 GMT -5
TBH I think a lot of us are over thinking this.
For long time wrestling fans: complicated
For newer fans: racist d bag
For the general public: that guy from the 80s.
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nate5054
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nate5054 on Mar 26, 2022 14:18:10 GMT -5
It will be mostly good to most people (I mean good in the sense that they'll feel a legendary figure in their lives passed away), but his racism does complicate things a lot. Mostly because it wasn't "just" (I'm not trying to minimize this, but more trying to compare the awfulness) him being recorded like in the 80s or whatever saying the n-word, it's because it was more recent and there really seemed to be a lot more animosity to what he was saying, like true hate was coming out.
I believed if he really went out there and tried to show (with actions) that he was doing his best to change his point of view, he'd get a lot more sympathy. The thing is...he really didn't. He did apologize, but in this instance, an apology with disclaimers won't cut it. Plus, I don't think just an apology is enough. If he would have used his celebrity to go out and do some community service about racism, I think that would have went a long way. Titus O'Neil probably summed it up better than anyone, where he wanted to see the evolution of Terry Bollea as a man. He had an opportunity to do so, but didn't. Either because he wanted this to just blow over, didn't want to put the work in, or honestly felt what he did was enough. For whatever reason, it shouldn't be a shock that he'll probably change a lot of people's viewpoints about him.
I know this is not a great example due to the levels of fame involved, but take Myers Leonard, a former NBA player. He called someone a "kike" on twitch. Whether that led to his NBA career being over is debatable, but he was a fringe player who at the very least did not need that sort of thing hanging over him. He apologized, but he's also put in work to visit with rabbis and other Jewish leaders in their community. Like nobody can tell what's really in someone's heart, but he's appeared to really try to transform himself. If Hogan would have done the same, I think his legacy would be less complicated than it is.
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Post by eJm on Mar 26, 2022 16:39:24 GMT -5
It will be mostly good to most people (I mean good in the sense that they'll feel a legendary figure in their lives passed away), but his racism does complicate things a lot. Mostly because it wasn't "just" (I'm not trying to minimize this, but more trying to compare the awfulness) him being recorded like in the 80s or whatever saying the n-word, it's because it was more recent and there really seemed to be a lot more animosity to what he was saying, like true hate was coming out. I believed if he really went out there and tried to show (with actions) that he was doing his best to change his point of view, he'd get a lot more sympathy. The thing is...he really didn't. He did apologize, but in this instance, an apology with disclaimers won't cut it. Plus, I don't think just an apology is enough. If he would have used his celebrity to go out and do some community service about racism, I think that would have went a long way. Titus O'Neil probably summed it up better than anyone, where he wanted to see the evolution of Terry Bollea as a man. He had an opportunity to do so, but didn't. Either because he wanted this to just blow over, didn't want to put the work in, or honestly felt what he did was enough. For whatever reason, it shouldn't be a shock that he'll probably change a lot of people's viewpoints about him. And the thing about it is he's been given opportunities to do so. Booker T said he asked Hogan to come with him to schools in Texas to talk about race and he declined and I'm pretty sure WWE would have had Titus travel with him to do the same thing for media events and the like and yeah, that might seem cynical and he might mean it but it'd be something, you know. Like you said, we're not just talking about slurs, he went out of his way to say a lot of stuff and even if he didn't know he was being recorded (and lead to a whole website shutting down from lawsuits), it's still ingrained in the people who'd it'd matter to the most and that being a lot of black wrestlers so any opportunity to make some kind of amends, I'd take with open arms if I were in his shoes. Instead, he went into a locker room of diverse wrestlers and said "Don't get caught, you might be being tracked and recorded" which not only sends entirely the wrong message but got him called out by the New Day and Titus O'Neal who, may I remind everyone, almost got fired for touching his boss awkwardly and basically went on to be the brightest PR light the company has and one of the few untouchable people left. Dude got himself onto the award nominations for the Oscars this year in the school named after him, if they fire him, he's basically running AEW's community management after 90 days.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Mar 26, 2022 16:48:36 GMT -5
The biggest star the industry has ever created/seen, but a terrible ending
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 26, 2022 17:13:18 GMT -5
Probably the biggest name in American pro wrestling forever as far as pop culture saturation is concerned. Even now, if a piece of media is going to homage pro wrestling, it's gonna be a Hogan pastiche for the most part.
Personal life wise, a mixed bag: there are those who made money with him that have always spoken highly of him, but the fact that he ALWAYS looked out for number well is so well known at this point that that's part of his legacy too.
So it's a complicated legacy even before you get into the racist rant which is still so bizarre the set of circumstances that led to that being said and getting out. It's vile of course, but also so perplexing in the sense of: who drops a bunch of slurs in the midst of pillow talk?
It's just such a weird scenario, I mean who can't relate to being unknowingly filmed by a good friend while you're banging his wife and then ranting in racial epithets immediately I'm the afterglow? Such an odd way to forever tarnish oneself.
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Mar 26, 2022 17:27:07 GMT -5
Probably the biggest name in American pro wrestling forever as far as pop culture saturation is concerned. Even now, if a piece of media is going to homage pro wrestling, it's gonna be a Hogan pastiche for the most part. Personal life wise, a mixed bag: there are those who made money with him that have always spoken highly of him, but the fact that he ALWAYS looked out for number well is so well known at this point that that's part of his legacy too. So it's a complicated legacy even before you get into the racist rant which is still so bizarre the set of circumstances that led to that being said and getting out. It's vile of course, but also so perplexing in the sense of: who drops a bunch of slurs in the midst of pillow talk? It's just such a weird scenario, I mean who can't relate to being unknowingly filmed by a good friend while you're banging his wife and then ranting in racial epithets immediately I'm the afterglow? Such an odd way to forever tarnish oneself. It is really, really weird. People fixate on what he said, and that’s fine, but I think we’ve all said our piece on that matter…so I think we should all concentrate on why the f*** would he say that right then?!!!
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Post by eJm on Mar 26, 2022 17:31:12 GMT -5
Probably the biggest name in American pro wrestling forever as far as pop culture saturation is concerned. Even now, if a piece of media is going to homage pro wrestling, it's gonna be a Hogan pastiche for the most part. Personal life wise, a mixed bag: there are those who made money with him that have always spoken highly of him, but the fact that he ALWAYS looked out for number well is so well known at this point that that's part of his legacy too. So it's a complicated legacy even before you get into the racist rant which is still so bizarre the set of circumstances that led to that being said and getting out. It's vile of course, but also so perplexing in the sense of: who drops a bunch of slurs in the midst of pillow talk? It's just such a weird scenario, I mean who can't relate to being unknowingly filmed by a good friend while you're banging his wife and then ranting in racial epithets immediately I'm the afterglow? Such an odd way to forever tarnish oneself. It is really, really weird. People fixate on what he said, and that’s fine, but I think we’ve all said our piece on that matter…so I think we should all concentrate on why the f*** would he say that right then?!!! I'd like to also agree that's a really fair point. Like, I'm not an expert on the matter but if a way to turn someone on was to make long-winded racist statements...that's really not someone I want to get into human physical contact with, never mind anything else.
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Post by wildojinx on Mar 26, 2022 17:34:19 GMT -5
I wonder what Hogan's daughter thought about the whole situation as well, I mean, Hogan was criticizing her choice in significant others, so he was also insulting her in the process.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Mar 26, 2022 17:44:58 GMT -5
For me? As a black man?
My favorite wrestler of all time.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Mar 26, 2022 17:46:46 GMT -5
The biggest star the industry has ever created/seen, but a terrible ending Seen this same take several times in this thread and I don't get it. Maybe it's because I was so young when "Hulkamania [was] running wild, brother!" but I don't understand how anyone could assert he's a bigger star than at the very least The Rock or John Cena, with Steve Austin and Batista also being if not on the same level maybe one step below it. I mean, do younger people these days know who Hogan is? If they've gotten into wrestling recently it was almost certainly because of stars who were coming up while Hogan's star was already deep in decline. ETA: Hogan also f***ed himself by making his brand so goddamn toxic. People who have never seen Ric Flair wrestle know who he is because shouting him out has become synonymous with success. No one is doing that for Hogan.
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ghost
Don Corleone
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Post by ghost on Mar 26, 2022 18:26:22 GMT -5
If you want a preview, check out the reactions to Triple H's retirement, I guess. Came here to post this exactly.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Mar 26, 2022 18:52:10 GMT -5
The biggest star the industry has ever created/seen, but a terrible ending Seen this same take several times in this thread and I don't get it. Maybe it's because I was so young when "Hulkamania [was] running wild, brother!" but I don't understand how anyone could assert he's a bigger star than at the very least The Rock or John Cena, with Steve Austin and Batista also being if not on the same level maybe one step below it. I mean, do younger people these days know who Hogan is? If they've gotten into wrestling recently it was almost certainly because of stars who were coming up while Hogan's star was already deep in decline. ETA: Hogan also f***ed himself by making his brand so goddamn toxic. People who have never seen Ric Flair wrestle know who he is because shouting him out has become synonymous with success. No one is doing that for Hogan. I mean. Barely anyone talks about Bruno nowadays but that doesn’t change that he was huge star and important name in history. Hogan was THE largest draw in the business in the late seventies through the 80s and part of the pop culture zeitgeist and then his character change and previous popularity led to the boom in the late 90s. Dude started TWO boom periods in wrestling. Whatever whatever about his personal shit. He’s a huge, important name in wrestling history. When wrestling was at its most popular, he was at or near the center of it.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Mar 26, 2022 19:47:13 GMT -5
The thread about Tony Khan buying the rights to Captain Insano got me watching the Waterboy clip again, which felt weirdly relevant to this discussion, because it's totally Big Show doing a Hulk Hogan pastiche. Because that's what you do in mainstream entertainment when you want to have a pro wrestler who immediately reads as a pro wrestler to the general audience, even when they're being played by an actual pro wrestler who's nothing like Hulk Hogan, they're still going to be doing a Hulk Hogan impression because that's the shorthand for "pro wrestler" that anyone and everyone who isn't a hardcore fan associates with pro wrestling. Even decades later, nobody else has supplanted that cultural shorthand. That's Hogan's legacy, and it's going to endure no matter how much of a piece of shit Terry Bollea is.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 26, 2022 21:14:13 GMT -5
I never really thought Captain Insano was particularly Hogan inspired.
It's been a while since I saw the waterboy granted... from what I remember it was just generic big tough guy wrestler talk... nothing even really specifically Hogan... for starters a can of whoopass is closer to Stone Cold than anything Hogan ever said...
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Mar 26, 2022 21:22:26 GMT -5
I never really thought Captain Insano was particularly Hogan inspired. It's been a while since I saw the waterboy granted... from what I remember it was just generic big tough guy wrestler talk... nothing even really specifically Hogan... for starters a can of whoopass is closer to Stone Cold than anything Hogan ever said... It's just a generic thing...unless Hogan burst out laughing at a fan and called him a virgin and I'm unaware of it.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Mar 26, 2022 21:48:05 GMT -5
I never really thought Captain Insano was particularly Hogan inspired. It's been a while since I saw the waterboy granted... from what I remember it was just generic big tough guy wrestler talk... nothing even really specifically Hogan... for starters a can of whoopass is closer to Stone Cold than anything Hogan ever said... I mean YMMV, but I was watching the wrestling promo he was doing at the beginning of the clip linked to in the other thread and thinking "lol, it's Big Show cutting a promo but he's acting nothing like Big Show because that's not exaggerated enough to come across as an archetypal pro wrestler persona to a mainstream audience" and then realized the "archetypal wrestling persona" people expect is basically just Hogan. It's not an Austin promo either despite the lines, listen to the growly/shouty voice and the way he's flexing and keeping his arms animated. It's an old-school Hulk Hogan promo. It might not be 100% Hogan but it's as much Hogan as Johnny Largemeat was John Cena doing Hulk Hogan.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2022 23:26:32 GMT -5
The thread about Tony Khan buying the rights to Captain Insano got me watching the Waterboy clip again, which felt weirdly relevant to this discussion, because it's totally Big Show doing a Hulk Hogan pastiche. Because that's what you do in mainstream entertainment when you want to have a pro wrestler who immediately reads as a pro wrestler to the general audience, even when they're being played by an actual pro wrestler who's nothing like Hulk Hogan, they're still going to be doing a Hulk Hogan impression because that's the shorthand for "pro wrestler" that anyone and everyone who isn't a hardcore fan associates with pro wrestling. Even decades later, nobody else has supplanted that cultural shorthand. That's Hogan's legacy, and it's going to endure no matter how much of a piece of shit Terry Bollea is. I feel only Macho Man has accomplished what you just described when it comes to stamping his persona on the public like that
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on May 7, 2022 0:11:27 GMT -5
Seen this same take several times in this thread and I don't get it. Maybe it's because I was so young when "Hulkamania [was] running wild, brother!" but I don't understand how anyone could assert he's a bigger star than at the very least The Rock or John Cena, with Steve Austin and Batista also being if not on the same level maybe one step below it. I mean, do younger people these days know who Hogan is? If they've gotten into wrestling recently it was almost certainly because of stars who were coming up while Hogan's star was already deep in decline. ETA: Hogan also f***ed himself by making his brand so goddamn toxic. People who have never seen Ric Flair wrestle know who he is because shouting him out has become synonymous with success. No one is doing that for Hogan. I mean. Barely anyone talks about Bruno nowadays but that doesn’t change that he was huge star and important name in history. Hogan was THE largest draw in the business in the late seventies through the 80s and part of the pop culture zeitgeist and then his character change and previous popularity led to the boom in the late 90s. Dude started TWO boom periods in wrestling. Whatever whatever about his personal shit. He’s a huge, important name in wrestling history. When wrestling was at its most popular, he was at or near the center of it. Definitely. In the US, he was obviously huge, and in Japan, he was also an enormous star, having a hot rivalry with Inoki that did fantastic business for NJPW in its infancy. There was a few names that come up in talks of top stars of all time, and he may be one of the only ones who could be said to have been a blueprint for not one, but two continents' foundation for wrestling.
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