Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2022 16:26:38 GMT -5
Sunny/Candido Owen Benoit Jimmy Rave Droz
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Post by Celexa Bliss 54 on Apr 8, 2022 17:45:24 GMT -5
Owen (despite his accomplishments in the ring, 33 was no damn age to die) Nancy Sullivan (not getting involved in wrestling means she never marries Chris Benoit) Fritz Von Erich (with the knockoff effect someone above mentioned) Chris Candido (with a similar knockoff effect, that Tammy likely never gets involved with wrestling either) Elizabeth (that woman was just too good for the wrestling business, keep her out and not only is she maybe alive today, maybe both her and Randy are happy, too)
FYI, I picked people who would have been better off not being involved or who never intended to be involved in wrestling. Droz and Jimmy Rave, in spite of what happened to them, loved the business by all accounts, so removing them seems like a monkey's paw type of deal. Moolah and Snuka, imo, would've been bad people with or without wrestling. I wanted to pick people who you look at and go, "if not for wrestling, their lives would have been better". The exception is Fritz, where I was looking to save his sons, not him. If I had my way, he'd rot in hell.
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,656
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Post by thecrusherwi on Apr 8, 2022 17:51:58 GMT -5
Vince Russo Chris Benoit Sunny New Jack Droz Good call on Droz. Didn’t make any significant mark on the business and I doubt he made a fortune from it either. And in return he’s probably going to spend over half his life in a wheelchair.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Apr 8, 2022 17:52:47 GMT -5
If we’re talking for the betterment of the people themselves, then it’s either the Von Erich boys or…
1.) Chris Benoit 2.) Owen Hart 3.) Jose Gonzalez (not for his betterment, but for Brody’s) 4.) Droz 5.) Hayabusa or Dynamite Kid. I couldn’t really pick, but I may be leaning more towards Dynamite just because he was such an asshole to other people.
If we mean the betterment of the business…
1.) Vince McMahon. Yes, someone would have gone national regardless, and most if not all of the territory promoters would have ended up out of business. But I don’t think it would have been in such a cutthroat manner, or would have spent decades shaping public perception of wrestling as being not wrestling but crash TV, bad comedy skits, and dialogue written by washes out soap opera writers. Bill Watts or Jim Crockett didn’t look at what they did every day and say they made movies.
2.) Moolah. Even if you set aside the “did it happen or not” allegations of pimping, she steered women’s wrestling in a direction that took decades to shake, and careers and the business itself suffered for it.
3.) Paul Heyman. This one hurts, because I love him as a performer, and when he cuts the bullshit he’s a great creative mind. But some of the things he fostered with ECW did a lot of damage to people, their careers, and the business itself. That outweighs some great promos.
4.) Vince Russo. Did a lot of damage to business and individual careers with his senseless crash TV, shock jock booking that doesn’t hold up well today.
5.) Terry Landell . This one is personal and I freely admit it. Wrestling in East Tennessee was badly hurt by split from Fuller’s promotion and the press it received, but Ron was later able to make something of a comeback, and SMW drew some damn good houses and put on some great shows before ultimately going out of business. Terry Landell killed it, dug up its corpse, and mutilated it. It still hasn’t recovered, and I’m not sure it ever will.
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Post by Hobby Drifter on Apr 9, 2022 6:18:55 GMT -5
5: Grizzly Smith. It means we don’t get Jake the Snake, but it also means a whooooole lot of terrible **** doesn’t happen.
4: Vince Russo. Owen Hart lives. The worst excesses of the Attitude Era never make it to Vince’s desk.
3: Mick Foley. I love Mick Foley. He’s one of my top-5 favorites of all time. But damn if his incredibly likeable nature, incredible talent, and willingness to cause irreparable harm to himself teach a whole lot of people that hurting themselves for real was a good way to get their foot in the door of the big time
2: Eddie Guerrero. Again, love Eddie. But wrestling is one of the major contributions to his early death, and by extension, those of the entire Benoit family.
1: Bill Goldberg. He ended Bret Hart’s career and, much like Mick Foley (how many times have THOSE two been compared, lol) had an extremely successful career that taught a whole lot of people a whole lot of all the wrong lessons.
Honorable mentions Sunny, Stephanie McMahon, Ian Rotten, Fritz von Erich, Robocop, and Chucky
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 6,713
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Post by lucas_lee on Apr 9, 2022 8:10:27 GMT -5
Benoit, Mike Awesome, Fritz Vin Erich, Bruiser Brody, Snuka
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2022 13:24:16 GMT -5
Vince McMahon Eric Bischoff Paul Heyman Jerry Jarrett Tony Khan
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Post by Cyno on Apr 9, 2022 13:40:18 GMT -5
It's hard to do because there's a lot of terrible people to choose from who have had significant impact on the industry. So you have to be careful about the butterfly effect, here.
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Post by whatamaneuver on Apr 9, 2022 15:34:41 GMT -5
For their own sake:
• Owen Hart • Chris Benoit • Chyna
To protect others:
• Bill Goldberg (Bret Hart) • Invader 1 (Bruiser Brodie)
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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on Apr 9, 2022 16:07:08 GMT -5
Mentioning him again somehow in this thread, but say Fritz had been the one who won expansion? Yeah I think Tony Khan might be pro wrestlings only decent hearted promoter in its history lol. Cary Silken and Don Owen (Portland promoter from way back) both have solid reputations with anyone that worked for them. But for the most part you are correct.
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Post by Marvelous1LUFC on Apr 9, 2022 16:30:10 GMT -5
Not sure why people are going with owen, its not like pro wrestling gave him his demons, it was a stupid stunt idea Those saying Goldberg, because of Bret. Bret was like 43, and i believe had a hardcore match with Terry Funk after the goldberg incident.
I'll agree with Droz, he accomplished nothing. Isn't remembered by the majority of WWE fans, and is now living in a wheelchair because of wrestling.
I'll agree with fritz von erich too for reasons already stated
Benoit.. Obvious reasons Russo
And lastly Eddie Guerrero, had his demons, thought he was cleared of them, but eventually his past demons came back.. As much as Eddie was loved, he had only 1-2 great years in WWE
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Apr 9, 2022 20:41:49 GMT -5
I can't say Grizzly Smith because we all know what his idea of a comfortable life would be. I feel like that caveat would mean leaving people off the hook who'd be monsters regardless of what they did for a living
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Apr 9, 2022 21:07:06 GMT -5
Jean Exbroyat Paul Pons George Hackenschmidt Frank Gotch Jess McMahon
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Apr 10, 2022 9:46:38 GMT -5
Yeah, I think Grizzly Smith would have still been a pedophile. Maybe there would have been fewer victims without the travel and celebrity status, but there would still be victims.
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Post by sungod2020 on Apr 10, 2022 15:30:22 GMT -5
It's hard to do because there's a lot of terrible people to choose from who have had significant impact on the industry. So you have to be careful about the butterfly effect, here. That is true. In a business like this, it can be sometimes difficult to draw the line between who should be honored and who should be shunned. This dosen't even apply just to pro wrestling, but all sorts of the entertainment business and history in general. I mean, for us Americans, we're celebrating Columbus for discovering the Americas(which is debatable) and even name a holiday in his honor while he was a tyrant. There was even a story of how he enslaved the locals and had their ears chopped off. With George Washington, he was a slaveholder and from what I was told, he treated them cruelly even by the standards of his day. With pro wrestling, sometimes it's best to keep your head buried in the sand and not looked past face value of some of your favorite performers or you'll feel conflicted on wheather or not you should honor them. I'm surprised only one person mentioned the Dynamite Kid. It dosen't matter how many fake moves he knew, he was still an asshole, a bully, a terrible husband and father, and an animal abuser. Without him, Chris Benoit wouldn't have been inspired to become a wrestler, so maybe he would've been better off. Granted, he still could've killed his wife and son if he took a different career path, but that's another issue.
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Apr 10, 2022 15:38:48 GMT -5
Dixie Carter Jim Cornette John Laurenitis Bruce Prichard Stephanie McMahon
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2022 16:21:36 GMT -5
Dixie Carter Jim Cornette John Laurenitis Bruce Prichard Stephanie McMahon If I was making a list just based on my own personal preferences, this would be exactly it.
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Apr 10, 2022 18:12:00 GMT -5
If I could erase five gimmicks from History... (with the understanding the wrestler's career would be ended or altered from then on.)
The Fat Chick Thriller.
L.O.D. 2000
Big Daddy V
Giant Gonzales
and Molly Holly (I don't hate Miss Greenwald, I just liked her better as Mona.)
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
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Post by Dub H on Apr 10, 2022 18:24:49 GMT -5
Moolah would be top of my list for sure, the rest I would need to research
Honestly if you wanna save Owens you remove Vince,probably save more lives along the way too
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bob
Salacious Crumb
The "other" Bob. FOC COURSE!
started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
Posts: 78,377
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Post by bob on Apr 10, 2022 18:27:43 GMT -5
Moolah, Droz, Benoit, Sunny and Fritz
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