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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Apr 18, 2022 13:33:38 GMT -5
It's a debate almost as old as the sport it's self.
Many man can claim a spot in the argument...
Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, Muhammed Ali, Joe Fraizier, Rocky Marciano, George Forman, Wladimir Kitchsko, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis....
But what do you guys and gals think?
I think Ali is def the best overall, but if someone argued Joe Louis, I wouldn't argue against it.
Tyson should have been the answer, but bad personal and business decisions derailed it.
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lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Apr 18, 2022 14:18:56 GMT -5
In terms of accolades Id give it to Muhammad Ali, what he went through in the first half of his career to set up the second half will hopefully never have to be replicated by anyone. A more modern day ATG is Lennox Lewis whose resume is pretty stellar and might not be topped in a while
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Apr 18, 2022 14:54:37 GMT -5
For as much as I have paid attention to boxing, I gotta say Tyson. I know that’s not the real answer, but for my money, I’ll just say him because I don’t know any better and I feel the urge to pipe in.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2022 15:10:04 GMT -5
I don't know who is better, but as someone who doesn't even watch boxing I've always been lead to believe that its either Ali or Tyson.
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Post by sportatorium on Apr 18, 2022 15:19:54 GMT -5
Ali or Tyson are the endless argument. The question would be answered by who could dictate the style of the fight. Could Ali use his athleticism to stay away from Tyson & wear him out before moving in for the kill? Could Tyson use his defense to get inside of Ali and just punish him with punches?
Ali could take one on the chin, A clean powerful shot on the chin took Tyson out a few times, but later in his career.
I think I give the nod to Ali as he was more of a strategist. He fought so many great opponents and always had a game plan. If you can find it- look for footage of George Foreman's face when he would unload on Ali & he wouldn't go down. Ali would win the fight mentally when those things happened.
Tyson in his prime was just too powerful & quick. I do think Ali gets my nod as greatest ever by a tiny margin.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Apr 18, 2022 15:34:32 GMT -5
Tyson and Ali is always looked at as THE Dream Fight.
But I'd rather watch Ali VS Louis.
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Post by Cyno on Apr 18, 2022 15:45:05 GMT -5
Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. The great smell of Brut and the punch of Ali.
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lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Apr 18, 2022 16:15:05 GMT -5
Tyson and Ali is always looked at as THE Dream Fight. But I'd rather watch Ali VS Louis. Louis style is very wrong for Ali. Although I'm not sure if Louis saw speed like Ali except for maybe Billy Conn who was winning until he got caught |
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tafkaga
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Post by tafkaga on Apr 18, 2022 16:21:44 GMT -5
Louis, Marciano, Ali, Lennox all had long runs and beat everybody who was anybody in their day.
The exception is Louis who got beat by Marciano in his last fight, despite Marciano being the underdog.
Ali beat Frazier twice and Foreman once.
Lennox beat Tyson, Klitschko.
Frazier, Foreman, Tyson all were elite level fighters who eventually ran into better fighters.
There's always arguments "Well A only beat B because C".
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Apr 18, 2022 16:26:30 GMT -5
Larry Holmes
I'd put Shannon Briggs in the conversation as well.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Apr 18, 2022 16:55:38 GMT -5
Larry Holmes I'd put Shannon Briggs in the conversation as well. f***. I forgot Larry Holmes. He def deserves to be in the conversation. |
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Apr 18, 2022 17:38:10 GMT -5
The exception is Louis who got beat by Marciano in his last fight, despite Marciano being the underdog. “Joe Louis was 137 years old when he took that fight!!” |
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lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Apr 18, 2022 17:38:39 GMT -5
Larry Holmes I'd put Shannon Briggs in the conversation as well. I dunno about Shannon Briggs he'd be on the B-C tier with guys like Ray Mercer, Tommy Morrison, Michael Dokes, and Andrew Golota. |
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Post by oxbaker on Apr 18, 2022 17:53:24 GMT -5
The exception is Louis who got beat by Marciano in his last fight, despite Marciano being the underdog. “Joe Louis was 137 years old when he took that fight!!” “I don’t know how old he was, but he got his ass kicked.” The current consensus thinking of top heavyweight champions ever is: 1. Muhammad Ali 2. Joe Louis 3. Larry Holmes (some debate here but not a lot — any poll of historians and experts he’d above anyone else for third) Tyson the debate is more whether he’s top 10 or not. A lot of the best names on his record are 1980s washouts/retreads (Holmes being one and he’d had IIRC more than 2 years off and only a couple of months to train with no tune-ups). His prime was very short and his decline pretty steep. He got beaten up by Buster Douglas and Holyfield, who was considered well past it, bullied him and outclassed him completely. But 4-10 is all over the place and depends on whether you value head to head or historic achievement — Lennox Lewis, Joe Frazier, Rocky Marciano, Jack Dempsey (usually on the lower end), perhaps Wlad Klitschko, George Foreman, Tyson and Jack Johnson are some of the names that are most frequently in that discussion. |
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Apr 18, 2022 18:06:51 GMT -5
Lennox Lewis never seemed to get his due, despite being in the same era as Tyson
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Apr 18, 2022 19:22:36 GMT -5
Like I said its an endless debate.
Both Klitschko brothers pretty much cleaned out the division.
And you have Marciano, who want undefeated and did KO Joe Louis, just a year after he was a world champion.
It's a tough debate really. There's many heavyweights who won a world title, but didn't really accomplish anything major other than that and are seen as flukes.
One name I've not seen pop up yet is Riddick Bowe.
I'm not sure what place he holds in boxing history, but I really wish we'd have gotten the fight with Tyson.
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Johnny B. Decent
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Apr 18, 2022 19:29:27 GMT -5
Tyson is a fascinating study for boxing, because he became the undisputed champion of the world by 20 years old, but his greatest enemy was himself (and Don King). It's weird to say that someone who was so good so quickly didn't fully realize all he could, but it feels like he could have been even more.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Apr 18, 2022 19:35:18 GMT -5
Like I said its an endless debate. Both Klitschko brothers pretty much cleaned out the division. And you have Marciano, who want undefeated and did KO Joe Louis, just a year after he was a world champion. It's a tough debate really. There's many heavyweights who won a world title, but didn't really accomplish anything major other than that and are seen as flukes. One name I've not seen pop up yet is Riddick Bowe. I'm not sure what place he holds in boxing history, but I really wish we'd have gotten the fight with Tyson. Wladimir had embarassing losses to Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster back to back though. Lennox Lewis had two fluke losses and proved that they were flukes by avenging them with dominant ease. That knockout on Hassim Rahman in the rematch might be the greatest I've ever seen. |
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Apr 18, 2022 19:56:06 GMT -5
It's hard to say after 1980 because the division thinned out so much by then. The heavyweights in the 60s and 70s just beat the living shit out of each other. Guys like Earnie Shavers, Ron Lyle, Jerry Quarry, Jimmy Ellis, Ken Norton, Bob Foster were all quality heavyweights, even though they were not top tier guys(save Norton on one night), so you could gauge the greats better. I think Tyson in his prime gets underrated, but really most of his damage was against lousy competition.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 18, 2022 20:11:38 GMT -5
Ali or Tyson are the endless argument. The question would be answered by who could dictate the style of the fight. Could Ali use his athleticism to stay away from Tyson & wear him out before moving in for the kill? Could Tyson use his defense to get inside of Ali and just punish him with punches? Ali could take one on the chin, A clean powerful shot on the chin took Tyson out a few times, but later in his career. I think I give the nod to Ali as he was more of a strategist. He fought so many great opponents and always had a game plan. If you can find it- look for footage of George Foreman's face when he would unload on Ali & he wouldn't go down. Ali would win the fight mentally when those things happened. Tyson in his prime was just too powerful & quick. I do think Ali gets my nod as greatest ever by a tiny margin. Yeah... I admit to not being a major Boxing historian but from everything I've seen or heard Tyson's biggest strategy tended to be go in and just pound them down. Ali boxed a lot smarter, if he can keep away and tire Tyson out Ali takes it... but Tyson also is famous for the "Everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth" line. I think Ali takes it overall though if for no other reason than longevity. |
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