Are Rebellious Crowds Gone for Good?

[BorneAgain]

Bryan & Dave at WO had an interesting discussion today about the lack of hijacking crowds have done since audiences came back post pandemic, and it got me thinking about something. With AEW's existence now being an alternative for the disgruntled fan, will there ever be any kind of counter reaction by fans again? Are sedated, fairly behaved crowds just what to expect, even in big cities that years ago would have actively taken over live shows?

If that's true, it is remarkable that such a well known habit may now just be over and done with, especially given how significant it once was.

[Jindrak Mark]

If you're terminally online and deep inside the IWC bubble you might think this Roman run is "misery booking" but when you venture into the real world the Tribal Chief gimmick is massively over and the biggest thing in wrestling. He's been shouted out, sorry acknowledged, twice by Charles Barkley in recent weeks. His theme gets played at sporting events. He was on The Tonight Show recently too. He gets great reactions every week and it's very clearly not go-away heat. Some weeks he's even cheered. The same thing with Ronda. Forums like this do nothing but talk about how she sucks and no one cares but the paying customers cheer her every week. Sometimes the IWC is out of touch with the live fans.

The type of fan most likely to hijack are the 20-40 year old white males. They've probably moved onto AEW like you said. If they're still watching WWE they're probably hate-watching and posting about it online rather than actually attending the shows.

[dbrussel]

Well...the last WWE TV show i attended was that Raw in brooklyn from last year were Seth was jumped by a fan (I totally missed it live from my seat)

Also, i watched the show again at home and the piped in crowd noise made it feel like a different show.

[1 Free Moon-Down with Burger]

May 24, 2022 17:12:24 GMT -5 Jindrak Mark said:

If you're terminally online and deep inside the IWC bubble you might think this Roman run is "misery booking" but when you venture into the real world the Tribal Chief gimmick is massively over and the biggest thing in wrestling. He's been shouted out, sorry acknowledged, twice by Charles Barkley in recent weeks. His theme gets played at sporting events. He was on The Tonight Show recently too. He gets great reactions every week and it's very clearly not go-away heat. Some weeks he's even cheered. The same thing with Ronda. Forums like this do nothing but talk about how she sucks and no one cares but the paying customers cheer her every week. Sometimes the IWC is out of touch with the live fans.

The type of fan most likely to hijack are the 20-40 year old white males. They've probably moved onto AEW like you said. If they're still watching WWE they're probably hate-watching and posting about it online rather than actually attending the shows.

Bingo

["Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik]

WWE ran off most of those fans that "hijacked" shows which typically involved them advocating for their favorite wrestlers to be pushed like Punk and Bryan. Now they're watching AEW where they rarely do that because they enjoy the product. It's self sorting. Dave did bring up a good point that this type of behavior usually involves someone being seen as being held down relative to their popularity. That hasn't really happened since Becky's rise. You could say that means WWE is pushing the right talent or you could say that they have a lot less up and coming talent that's so over that their fans are demanding more for them. It's all based on your perspective. The downside to all of this is crowds are definitely quieter on the average show. When fans aren't enjoying the show these days, they don't chant boring or CM Punk or for someone else on the show. They just sit on their hands which makes for boring television.

[Dub H]

Probably a mix of fans being ran off and WWE completely controlling crowd reactions nowdays.

[Cyno]

I can understand going to a show and being disappointed. But then I never got why people would spend over $100 with the intent of being miserable. Those WWE tickets aren't cheap.

[ssdrivin]

May 24, 2022 19:03:57 GMT -5 Cyno said:

I can understand going to a show and being disappointed. But then I never got why people would spend over $100 with the intent of being miserable. Those WWE tickets aren't cheap.

Paying to go to a show with the express purpose of being miserable and being so (expectedly) annoyed with the content is just... really stupid.

But, like you say, it's possible that people go to the show hoping not to be disappointed, but then end up disappointed by equally stupid booking. Perhaps they expected their guy to win, for 101 reasons from "it makes sense in kayfabe" to "he's my guy, of course he wins", and if a whole bunch of fans agree that the booking was stupid, or that their hometown hero should've won, or some kind of cheap ending happens, especially in a heated crowd, that's when I can see spontaneous rowdy crowds kicking off. Without them having gone there just to "stick it to Vince" by starting annoying chants or intentionally booing the face or cheering the heel to be rebellious.

[Starshine]

May 24, 2022 19:03:57 GMT -5 Cyno said:

I can understand going to a show and being disappointed. But then I never got why people would spend over $100 with the intent of being miserable. Those WWE tickets aren't cheap.

Because they don't. A lot of these tickets are bought months ahead of the shows card being announced. People don't spend money on things they actvely don't like, hate watching a TV show is easy cause it's free. But the people at the shows didn't go there to complain, they wanted to be there.

[RadcapRadsley]

May 24, 2022 17:12:24 GMT -5 Jindrak Mark said:

If you're terminally online and deep inside the IWC bubble you might think this Roman run is "misery booking" but when you venture into the real world the Tribal Chief gimmick is massively over and the biggest thing in wrestling. He's been shouted out, sorry acknowledged, twice by Charles Barkley in recent weeks. His theme gets played at sporting events. He was on The Tonight Show recently too. He gets great reactions every week and it's very clearly not go-away heat. Some weeks he's even cheered. The same thing with Ronda. Forums like this do nothing but talk about how she sucks and no one cares but the paying customers cheer her every week. Sometimes the IWC is out of touch with the live fans.

The type of fan most likely to hijack are the 20-40 year old white males. They've probably moved onto AEW like you said. If they're still watching WWE they're probably hate-watching and posting about it online rather than actually attending the shows.

I agree with you about Roman mostly,however while Ronda isn't hated by live crowds the crowd was pretty mild in her segments with Charlotte and literally needed to be saved by Drew Gulak. Ronda was a giant mainstream name in 2015-2016 but that isn't gonna translate into automatic fan support the same way if Mr. T was involved in WM7 in the early 90s would garner media recognition but like isn't gonna put asses in seats. I actually like Ronda but think their is diminishing returns with her if she doesn't get a manager or at least used a lot better booking wise.

[Oh Cry Me a Screwball]

May 24, 2022 17:55:15 GMT -5 "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik said:

WWE ran off most of those fans that "hijacked" shows which typically involved them advocating for their favorite wrestlers to be pushed like Punk and Bryan. Now they're watching AEW where they rarely do that because they enjoy the product. It's self sorting. Dave did bring up a good point that this type of behavior usually involves someone being seen as being held down relative to their popularity. That hasn't really happened since Becky's rise. You could say that means WWE is pushing the right talent or you could say that they have a lot less up and coming talent that's so over that their fans are demanding more for them. It's all based on your perspective. The downside to all of this is crowds are definitely quieter on the average show. When fans aren't enjoying the show these days, they don't chant boring or CM Punk or for someone else on the show. They just sit on their hands which makes for boring television.

I'd say this is true, but also combine it with the fans at home being a little less and less excited every time it happened. For example, the "we are awesome" chant maybe happened about four or five times, but the only time it was ever met with majority approval was the first time when the Raw After Mania in New Jersey dumped on that Orton/Sheamus match. Every other time, it was met with "they're getting themselves over" by the vast majority of the community.

While I never felt like "fans getting themselves over" was an accurate label of what was happening, and it was more like "fans amusing themselves when bored of the same formulaic matches," that particular chant seemed to die a death when it was "getting the fans in attendance very un-over."

Then, there is one last factor, and that is both WWE and the indies running the entire weekend from the crack of dawn to nearly 4AM in the morning with shows when promoters realized how much money was in this weekend. When the aforementioned Raw After Mania 29 in New Jersey happened, WWE was just running Axxess, Hall of Fame, Mania, and Raw in the New York/New Jersey area. A few years later, this ballooned into more sessions of Axxess, Hall of Fame, NXT Takeover, Mania, Raw, and Smackdown; meanwhile indies like Evolve, GCW, and Highspots, all started running three to four shows a day on Thurs/Fri/Sat. This means that by time you make it to Raw, all those fans that would be rowdy as f*** if it was only show #3 for the weekend started getting tired as f*** by Monday on anywhere from show #6 to show #15 of the week.

[Chiral]

Didn't Bron get "Not our champion" chants like a month ago? And the way they shit on Grimes there too? I'm now formulating a theory that the rebellious crowds have united under the banner of Izzy's Dad.

[DrBackflipsHoffman]

many successful doctors, architects and lawyers are watching raw

[Dub H]

May 24, 2022 22:30:10 GMT -5 Chiral said:

Didn't Bron get "Not our champion" chants like a month ago? And the way they shit on Grimes there too? I'm now formulating a theory that the rebellious crowds have united under the banner of Izzy's Dad.

well NXT 2.0 was kinda of a kick to the NXT Black and Gold fans do it's kinda different.

[Brandon Walsh is Insane.]

Piped in crowds on tv.

[This Player Hating Mothman]

I think the narrative that all the rebellious fans were contrarian hatewatchers is a very easy, very reassuring narrative to fill in so that you can continue to claim that actually those aren't "the real fans" and that the internet is wrong and a screamy minority. People don't buy WWE tickets thinking "Oh boy I bet this show will suck, I can't wait to make sounds that'll get on TV when I boo it because WWE sucks and is for babies and gay people and gay babies", and if those fans have just checked out entirely then that's them giving up, not them getting bored of ruining things people like actually.

[tirtefaa]

I mean, after WWE refused to make Daniel Bryan their go to guy time and time again, despite being the most over guy on the roster from 2012 to 2014, I think it was inevitable.

Yes, they finally officially pulled the trigger at WrestleMania 30, but it was too little too late and he retired a few months later.

As a fan, why should I bother with cheering or booing or letting WWE what I care about if they are just going to do what they are going to do?

[Bo Rida]

People couldn't go to live events during the worst of the pandemic, many are going to their first show in years so are more likely to be happy they're back than jaded.
As others said there's fewer that feel held down to rally behind, on the flip side people are into what the likes of Orton and Sheamus are doing as they moved on from the same old shit.

Cost of living and more alternatives also mean it's a more hardcore fan base attending. A fanbase that accept most of those on top, it's not like Jinder is main eventing.

So the conditions aren't really there right now, doesn't mean they won't be in future. Especially at shows after mass releases if someone as popular as Bray is cut.

[stoptheclocks]

I think Dave is right that there isn't anyone people feel is being held down currently - Roman Reigns is massively over and people are all happy to see Cody. There may be a point in the future when people tire of the latter and he starts to get booed (as happens with most faces eventually), but we're not there yet.

But I think it's also true that - as that HHH/CM Punk promo that was going around Twitter again the other day said - some people actually like WWE. An underrated amount, probably. They had a great Mania, and most of the featured wrestlers are really well liked. If you're a fan, you're probably pretty happy right now.

[lucas_lee]

May 24, 2022 17:12:24 GMT -5 Jindrak Mark said:

If you're terminally online and deep inside the IWC bubble you might think this Roman run is "misery booking" but when you venture into the real world the Tribal Chief gimmick is massively over and the biggest thing in wrestling. He's been shouted out, sorry acknowledged, twice by Charles Barkley in recent weeks. His theme gets played at sporting events. He was on The Tonight Show recently too. He gets great reactions every week and it's very clearly not go-away heat. Some weeks he's even cheered. The same thing with Ronda. Forums like this do nothing but talk about how she sucks and no one cares but the paying customers cheer her every week. Sometimes the IWC is out of touch with the live fans.

The type of fan most likely to hijack are the 20-40 year old white males. They've probably moved onto AEW like you said. If they're still watching WWE they're probably hate-watching and posting about it online rather than actually attending the shows.

Yeah WWE isn't my cup of tea right now but I'd be foolish to admit that all people hate it. I read some of the comments on segments that isn't here and reddit and its night and day way more positive.