|
Post by Tiffany Stratton's Daddy on May 30, 2022 17:23:11 GMT -5
Yeah this doesn't sound right. I doubt MJF does this because of silly contract disputes. Everything up to this point has felt kayfabe to me and just MJF and his typical heel tactics. He's trying to keep character like The Undertaker. Perhaps there's a real reason he wasn't at Fan Fest. If it is him just playing hardball, that's a bad way to go about it... especially when you take it out on the fans. There's Kayfabe, and then there's MJF Kayfabe. Like, he might be trying to even work the locker room and management. At some point, you've gotta take your foot off the gas with that, because you're gonna rub people the wrong way regardless. I agree. Unless you've let Tony Khan in on it behind the scenes, this isn't good. But with the story played at DON about CM Punk and others trying to take away from AEW Originals (Page, MJF, etc)... could it all be apart of the bigger story? The bigger story to get a MJF versus Punk title match?
|
|
|
Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on May 30, 2022 17:25:53 GMT -5
Per Fightful Tony and MJF are scheduled to have a meeting today. But SRS has also said he isnunsure if this is a work or not If I never heard the word "Work" ever again, I think I'd be ok. Well this seems like something you're going to need to work on because on a wrestling forum that's not going to work out, and I'd hate for you to get worked up. I hope you can come up with some kind of work around though... ... Work.
|
|
|
Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on May 30, 2022 17:26:27 GMT -5
Alvarez after a disastrous match where SRS refused to take most of his moves:"MINUS...FIVE...STARS!" SRS getting to scream on the mic at GCW and not take a single bump was an embarrassment to this business. I'm only half kidding. If SRS’s eyes were any closer together he’d be a cyclops. That’s all I got
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 238,230
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 30, 2022 17:46:04 GMT -5
SRS honestly sounds like a low rent Indy faction that you pronounce as "SERIOUS", that's always how I read it in my head and it'll probably never stop lol
|
|
|
Post by nihilismizhawt on May 30, 2022 19:09:14 GMT -5
The funniest thing about all of this, is if you just watched TV and the PPV, and AEW's youtube or whatever, you would have NO IDEA that anything happened. This is all MJF feeding journalists some sort of information to either get free, get more money, or let them know he wants to be a bigger star. Its 100% not a work.
Also, you can catch a car out of Newark and head over to Long Island. Or get a hotel and go later in the day. If he no showed a PPV, I doubt he would care if hes at his house or a hotel.
|
|
markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,635
Member is Online
|
Post by markymark on May 30, 2022 20:25:30 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by ChitownKnight on May 30, 2022 20:48:46 GMT -5
I doubt he leaves (atleast before his contract is up) but he’s certainly not winning a world title until he re signs (nor should he). I think it’s probably mental health issues. He may have literally worked himself into a shoot. I think the guy is talented and a fun performer to watch. I hope he gets his shit together. Atleast he put over Wardlow
|
|
EZ: Brainy Bae
Grimlock
I be like SHEESH
Posts: 13,270
Member is Online
|
Post by EZ: Brainy Bae on May 30, 2022 20:54:27 GMT -5
If I had to bet what happened from everything reported I see the following making most sense. What I think happened in regular type, and my own thoughts on each in italics:
1) MJF talks to Tony about having X months left on his deal and feels he's massively underpaid given his output and place on the card.
2) Tony agrees, but will only pay him top tier money if he signs an extension for the foreseeable future. (I would do the same if I were him)
3) MJF does not want to extend. He may have some issue with the way things are done behind the scenes that make him hesitant to stay long-term, or legitimately wants to keep his options open. He argues that a raise until his deal runs out is fair given Tony has gotten a main event talent out of him the past three years at a bargain.
(Given the personal stakes and fan interest in his feuds, I would agree with MJF's perspective here too. He drew against Cody, Darby, Jericho, Punk and Wardlow. All of those matches were highly anticipated, often more so than the title matches. Not only that, but he's since seen Punk, Bryan, Cole, the Hardys and others arrive - likely making far more than him - when he's helped build the company)
4) They go back and forth. During those talks something personal was said that convinced MJF the working relationship was untenable. It no longer matters how much money Khan will pay or how long; MJF does not want to work for him, much less for X months at his current pay.
5) MJF could ask for his release, but Tony would be under no obligation to give it. If he plays ball that's X months (more than a year for sure) that he could either be injured or have Tony slowly remove his prominence. Even though it's not been reported, he could have asked for his release and been denied. For something to be reported it has to be leaked, and it's possible neither party wanted that out. Tony would not want news leaking that one of his brightest stars wants to be released, and MJF would not want the same as it creates pressure for Khan to either sit him or use him less.
6) MJF is in a hard place. He doesn't want to extend, been possibly denied a release, but also can't stomach working for Khan another year-plus at his current pay. He uses the only other leverage he has ... his appearances. He skips the meet-and-greet to show Khan he can make things ugly. It would also serve as a legal reason for Tony to release him. At the same time he doesn't want to nuke his chances with other companies before they know details, so he returns to do his job and make Wardlow .... just not before making Tony sweat. Now that program is done. He can either get released or can make it work for the money he wants until his contract runs out - the latter is still possible if they dismiss this as either a work or an isolated incident due to stress/business disagreements that were quickly resolved.
MJF is a smart and knows the optics of all this. By most accounts he is well-liked backstage and is a good guy. Does that mean he couldn't have gone on an ego trip or miscalculated? Of course not. That's very possible. But everything about this suggests it's not about money. If it was, he would simply extend.
Given the lack of details I believe something personal went down. From both the power imbalance and their histories making public remarks and handling criticism, I think it's more likely if something cross was said it came from Khan. AEW's side has reiterated they were not made aware of all this, but - correct me if wrong here - they also have not phrased anything as unprofessional or given the okay for talent to label it as such. If MJF is 100% in the wrong then I don't see what they're holding back on.
|
|
|
Post by gentlemengreg1 on May 30, 2022 21:09:36 GMT -5
If I had to bet what happened from everything reported I see the following making most sense. What I think happened in regular type, and my own thoughts on each in italics: 1) MJF talks to Tony about having X months left on his deal and feels he's massively underpaid given his output and place on the card. 2) Tony agrees, but will only pay him top tier money if he signs an extension for the foreseeable future. ( I would do the same if I were him)3) MJF does not want to extend. He may have some issue with the way things are done behind the scenes that make him hesitant to stay long-term, or legitimately wants to keep his options open. He argues that a raise until his deal runs out is fair given Tony has gotten a main event talent out of him the past three years at a bargain. (Given the personal stakes and fan interest in his feuds, I would agree with MJF's perspective here too. He drew against Cody, Darby, Jericho, Punk and Wardlow. All of those matches were highly anticipated, often more so than the title matches. Not only that, but he's since seen Punk, Bryan, Cole, the Hardys and others arrive - likely making far more than him - when he's helped build the company)4) They go back and forth. During those talks something personal was said that convinced MJF the working relationship was untenable. It no longer matters how much money Khan will pay or how long; MJF does not want to work for him, much less for X months at his current pay. 5) MJF could ask for his release, but Tony would be under no obligation to give it. If he plays ball that's X months (more than a year for sure) that he could either be injured or have Tony slowly remove his prominence. Even though it's not been reported, he could have asked for his release and been denied. For something to be reported it has to be leaked, and it's possible neither party wanted that out. Tony would not want news leaking that one of his brightest stars wants to be released, and MJF would not want the same as it creates pressure for Khan to either sit him or use him less. 6) MJF is in a hard place. He doesn't want to extend, been possibly denied a release, but also can't stomach working for Khan another year-plus at his current pay. He uses the only other leverage he has ... his appearances. He skips the meet-and-greet to show Khan he can make things ugly. It would also serve as a legal reason for Tony to release him. At the same time he doesn't want to nuke his chances with other companies before they know details, so he returns to do his job and make Wardlow .... just not before making Tony sweat. Now that program is done. He can either get released or can make it work for the money he wants until his contract runs out - the latter is still possible if they dismiss this as either a work or an isolated incident due to stress/business disagreements that were quickly resolved. MJF is a smart and knows the optics of all this. By most accounts he is well-liked backstage and is a good guy. Does that mean he couldn't have gone on an ego trip or miscalculated? Of course not. That's very possible. But everything about this suggests it's not about money. If it was, he would simply extend. Given the lack of details I believe something personal went down. From both the power imbalance and their histories making public remarks and handling criticism, I think it's more likely if something cross was said it came from Khan. AEW's side has reiterated they were not made aware of all this, but - correct me if wrong here - they also have not phrased anything as unprofessional or given the okay for talent to label it as such. If MJF is 100% in the wrong then I don't see what they're holding back on. MJF is smart, but lacks emotional intelligence. It’s going to keep hurting his career as he moves forward unless he grows up.
|
|
|
Post by oxbaker on May 30, 2022 21:17:57 GMT -5
If I had to bet what happened from everything reported I see the following making most sense. What I think happened in regular type, and my own thoughts on each in italics: 1) MJF talks to Tony about having X months left on his deal and feels he's massively underpaid given his output and place on the card. 2) Tony agrees, but will only pay him top tier money if he signs an extension for the foreseeable future. ( I would do the same if I were him)3) MJF does not want to extend. He may have some issue with the way things are done behind the scenes that make him hesitant to stay long-term, or legitimately wants to keep his options open. He argues that a raise until his deal runs out is fair given Tony has gotten a main event talent out of him the past three years at a bargain. (Given the personal stakes and fan interest in his feuds, I would agree with MJF's perspective here too. He drew against Cody, Darby, Jericho, Punk and Wardlow. All of those matches were highly anticipated, often more so than the title matches. Not only that, but he's since seen Punk, Bryan, Cole, the Hardys and others arrive - likely making far more than him - when he's helped build the company)4) They go back and forth. During those talks something personal was said that convinced MJF the working relationship was untenable. It no longer matters how much money Khan will pay or how long; MJF does not want to work for him, much less for X months at his current pay. 5) MJF could ask for his release, but Tony would be under no obligation to give it. If he plays ball that's X months (more than a year for sure) that he could either be injured or have Tony slowly remove his prominence. Even though it's not been reported, he could have asked for his release and been denied. For something to be reported it has to be leaked, and it's possible neither party wanted that out. Tony would not want news leaking that one of his brightest stars wants to be released, and MJF would not want the same as it creates pressure for Khan to either sit him or use him less. 6) MJF is in a hard place. He doesn't want to extend, been possibly denied a release, but also can't stomach working for Khan another year-plus at his current pay. He uses the only other leverage he has ... his appearances. He skips the meet-and-greet to show Khan he can make things ugly. It would also serve as a legal reason for Tony to release him. At the same time he doesn't want to nuke his chances with other companies before they know details, so he returns to do his job and make Wardlow .... just not before making Tony sweat. Now that program is done. He can either get released or can make it work for the money he wants until his contract runs out - the latter is still possible if they dismiss this as either a work or an isolated incident due to stress/business disagreements that were quickly resolved. MJF is a smart and knows the optics of all this. By most accounts he is well-liked backstage and is a good guy. Does that mean he couldn't have gone on an ego trip or miscalculated? Of course not. That's very possible. But everything about this suggests it's not about money. If it was, he would simply extend. Given the lack of details I believe something personal went down. From both the power imbalance and their histories making public remarks and handling criticism, I think it's more likely if something cross was said it came from Khan. AEW's side has reiterated they were not made aware of all this, but - correct me if wrong here - they also have not phrased anything as unprofessional or given the okay for talent to label it as such. If MJF is 100% in the wrong then I don't see what they're holding back on. All of this sounds like a good read on the situation. It may vary in smaller details but I think you’ve got the gist of it. There have been reports that the two had a shouting match (I think it was over MJF doing an interview that wasn’t approved and Tony calling him to the carpet on that). You know what happens in shouting matches? People say things. It likely wasn’t ‘Well I understand your position but I STRONGLY disagree with you.’ MJF has a rapier wit and we know he can weaponize it … and Tony is a billionaire who probably hasn’t had a lot of people talk back to him (or raise their voices to him) in his entire life. And we can surmise from several things (listen to his rant on Bischoff in his post-PPV scrum) that Tony has a thin skin. He may have come back with something to put MJF in his place that didn’t set well, whatever that might have been. And from there, things could have fallen apart. We all know you don’t have to like people to work with them — heck, you don’t even have to respect them … but it helps … a LOT. And there may be a lack of mutual respect here that’s gone off the rails. One more point: most people agree that it’s reasonable that MJF should have to sign an extension to get a new deal for more money … but that doesn’t mean what’s on offer is reasonable. Because the devil, as they say, is in the details. If, for instance, Tony is insisting on a 10-year deal and a raise that puts him on par with Keith Lee’s salary at that price, I think most would say that’s not really a fair offer. It could be that MJF is agreeable to a 2-year extension, say, (through 2026) but not a seven-year extension … and that he wants to be one of the top three or four paid in the company and Tony is offering more like 12th-highest or 10th. So to say in principle that ‘he should sign an extension and he’ll get paid more’ doesn’t take into account exactly what kind of offer Tony has in mind.
|
|
|
Post by oxbaker on May 30, 2022 21:20:53 GMT -5
If I had to bet what happened from everything reported I see the following making most sense. What I think happened in regular type, and my own thoughts on each in italics: 1) MJF talks to Tony about having X months left on his deal and feels he's massively underpaid given his output and place on the card. 2) Tony agrees, but will only pay him top tier money if he signs an extension for the foreseeable future. ( I would do the same if I were him)3) MJF does not want to extend. He may have some issue with the way things are done behind the scenes that make him hesitant to stay long-term, or legitimately wants to keep his options open. He argues that a raise until his deal runs out is fair given Tony has gotten a main event talent out of him the past three years at a bargain. (Given the personal stakes and fan interest in his feuds, I would agree with MJF's perspective here too. He drew against Cody, Darby, Jericho, Punk and Wardlow. All of those matches were highly anticipated, often more so than the title matches. Not only that, but he's since seen Punk, Bryan, Cole, the Hardys and others arrive - likely making far more than him - when he's helped build the company)4) They go back and forth. During those talks something personal was said that convinced MJF the working relationship was untenable. It no longer matters how much money Khan will pay or how long; MJF does not want to work for him, much less for X months at his current pay. 5) MJF could ask for his release, but Tony would be under no obligation to give it. If he plays ball that's X months (more than a year for sure) that he could either be injured or have Tony slowly remove his prominence. Even though it's not been reported, he could have asked for his release and been denied. For something to be reported it has to be leaked, and it's possible neither party wanted that out. Tony would not want news leaking that one of his brightest stars wants to be released, and MJF would not want the same as it creates pressure for Khan to either sit him or use him less. 6) MJF is in a hard place. He doesn't want to extend, been possibly denied a release, but also can't stomach working for Khan another year-plus at his current pay. He uses the only other leverage he has ... his appearances. He skips the meet-and-greet to show Khan he can make things ugly. It would also serve as a legal reason for Tony to release him. At the same time he doesn't want to nuke his chances with other companies before they know details, so he returns to do his job and make Wardlow .... just not before making Tony sweat. Now that program is done. He can either get released or can make it work for the money he wants until his contract runs out - the latter is still possible if they dismiss this as either a work or an isolated incident due to stress/business disagreements that were quickly resolved. MJF is a smart and knows the optics of all this. By most accounts he is well-liked backstage and is a good guy. Does that mean he couldn't have gone on an ego trip or miscalculated? Of course not. That's very possible. But everything about this suggests it's not about money. If it was, he would simply extend. Given the lack of details I believe something personal went down. From both the power imbalance and their histories making public remarks and handling criticism, I think it's more likely if something cross was said it came from Khan. AEW's side has reiterated they were not made aware of all this, but - correct me if wrong here - they also have not phrased anything as unprofessional or given the okay for talent to label it as such. If MJF is 100% in the wrong then I don't see what they're holding back on. MJF is smart, but lacks emotional intelligence. It’s going to keep hurting his career as he moves forward unless he grows up. Some people might think the same of Tony Khan. (Except for hurting his career, because he’s the son of a billionaire.)
|
|
|
Post by Tiger Millionaire on May 30, 2022 21:27:23 GMT -5
Per Fightful Tony and MJF are scheduled to have a meeting today. But SRS has also said he isnunsure if this is a work or not If I never heard the word "Work" ever again, I think I'd be ok. ![](https://c.tenor.com/8zXwAsGXquIAAAAC/blazingsaddles-melbrooks.gif)
|
|
bog
ALF
Posts: 1,020
|
Post by bog on May 30, 2022 21:34:07 GMT -5
Is this stupid or do I love it or both
|
|
Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
|
Post by Blade on May 30, 2022 22:07:26 GMT -5
As always, of course - we don't know the guy or the context. We're all just working on snippets of second hand information, some of which is contradictory.
I personally think he's doing a Loose Cannon thing but that's due to assessing how he acted in his last few appearences; it's a very, very thin line between doing that gimmick and having an actual mental health problem.
Only time will tell so it's probably best not to get too attached to any set narrative about it.
|
|
EZ: Brainy Bae
Grimlock
I be like SHEESH
Posts: 13,270
Member is Online
|
Post by EZ: Brainy Bae on May 30, 2022 22:27:23 GMT -5
]All of this sounds like a good read on the situation. It may vary in smaller details but I think you’ve got the gist of it. There have been reports that the two had a shouting match (I think it was over MJF doing an interview that wasn’t approved and Tony calling him to the carpet on that). You know what happens in shouting matches? People say things. It likely wasn’t ‘Well I understand your position but I STRONGLY disagree with you.’ MJF has a rapier wit and we know he can weaponize it … and Tony is a billionaire who probably hasn’t had a lot of people talk back to him (or raise their voices to him) in his entire life. And we can surmise from several things (listen to his rant on Bischoff in his post-PPV scrum) that Tony has a thin skin. He may have come back with something to put MJF in his place that didn’t set well, whatever that might have been. And from there, things could have fallen apart. We all know you don’t have to like people to work with them — heck, you don’t even have to respect them … but it helps … a LOT. And there may be a lack of mutual respect here that’s gone off the rails. One more point: most people agree that it’s reasonable that MJF should have to sign an extension to get a new deal for more money … but that doesn’t mean what’s on offer is reasonable. Because the devil, as they say, is in the details. If, for instance, Tony is insisting on a 10-year deal and a raise that puts him on par with Keith Lee’s salary at that price, I think most would say that’s not really a fair offer. It could be that MJF is agreeable to a 2-year extension, say, (through 2026) but not a seven-year extension … and that he wants to be one of the top three or four paid in the company and Tony is offering more like 12th-highest or 10th. So to say in principle that ‘he should sign an extension and he’ll get paid more’ doesn’t take into account exactly what kind of offer Tony has in mind. There's points I didn't make you've brought up that are interesting too. - It was reported around the time of the interview that Tony wasn't happy about it and let MJF know. What I don't recall anyone reporting/highlighting was whether MJF broke any company rules by doing so. What if Tony raked him over the coals for something that wasn't even policy? Was it originally reported as a shouting match too? I don't recall that, so if that detail is only coming out now because of this story then who knows how much more there is that's being held back. - Correct. Since we don't know what kind of long-term deal was offered, if any, we don't know whether simply "here's more money per year" is a fair deal to accept. And while most would agree that he should only get a substantial raise by signing an extension, we also know there aren't many options in pro wrestling if a deal can't be agreed upon. The analogue in the NFL/NBA, say, would be a player holding out or asking for a trade. Wrestlers don't have that option without a union. You can say "well, shouldn't have signed for that long then" but if players can outperform a contract then I see no reason a wrestler can't either. - I left my last job on a two-week notice, and actually stayed a few days over to help train a replacement. But I was seriously tempted to walk out over stress and lack of changes that I had advocated/recommended for months. Common sense things. At one point they could have given me a raise that would have made me okay with the stuff they had me deal with, but that was only offered after I had already given notice. By then that option had already sailed. I am making more than their offer at my current job and count myself very fortunate in that. If they were to call me today and offer me an extra $2-3 an hour to leave my current job and go back, I would say no. Point is, if it's simply a matter of not wanting to be there anymore and not respecting the structure, I get that, no matter how it may look to others. That's just for a regular job, not one involving a lifelong passion. Without more details I feel uncomfortable labeling him unprofessional at this juncture. Especially since he came back to put Wardlow over.
|
|
EZ: Brainy Bae
Grimlock
I be like SHEESH
Posts: 13,270
Member is Online
|
Post by EZ: Brainy Bae on May 30, 2022 22:28:33 GMT -5
As always, of course - we don't know the guy or the context. We're all just working on snippets of second hand information, some of which is contradictory. I personally think he's doing a Loose Cannon thing but that's due to assessing how he acted in his last few appearences; it's a very, very thin line between doing that gimmick and having an actual mental health problem. Only time will tell so it's probably best not to get too attached to any set narrative about it. Touche. I just find it interesting to try and piece together.
|
|
Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
|
Post by Blade on May 30, 2022 22:38:25 GMT -5
Oh yeah, that's what we're all doing of course.
Which is why I do have to admire if it is a work, even though I don't think it was necessarily good for the product or even MJF.
Here we are all feverishly speculating and nobody really knows what's real or not. It is entirely possible nothing's a work and MJF can barely even stand to be there; it is entirely possible he and Tony had this planned from the first time he promoed about going to WWE. If it was planned, it's a masterclass in smoke and mirrors and strategic leaks and vague comments.
(Though, again, being brilliantly done doesn't mean it was a good idea. As many have noted, it made Wardlow's big crowning moment underwhelming and not really about Wardlow to many people, a serious loss given how much this had been built up.)
|
|
|
Post by Rudy Gobert Fadeaway on May 30, 2022 22:42:53 GMT -5
I remember in one of his first briefly out of character interviews MJF described himself as a pretty neurotic type dude and like I gotta be honest I don't think he was lying
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on May 30, 2022 22:46:01 GMT -5
I remember in one of his first briefly out of character interviews MJF described himself as a pretty neurotic type dude and like I gotta be honest I don't think he was lying The kayfabe all the time thing has generally looked to me like armor put up over anxiety. Like he's more comfortable if anything he does in public could be attributed to being in character. I can see that being more comfortable than a more nuanced approach to in-and-out-of-character modulation of one's words, because at least it's all in one direction and all controlled (theoretically).
|
|
Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,421
|
Post by Abdullah on May 30, 2022 23:23:29 GMT -5
MJF said in a shoot that he stays awake at night, wondering if he did the wrong thing and made people hate him. If that’s still the case, this situation can’t be easy for him. And the constant kayfabe is definitely something of a shield.
|
|